<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. HE SAYS the therapist is saying these things. You don’t know if that’s true. And even if your son interpreted it that way, it doesn’t mean that’s what the therapist actually meant.</p>
<p>
That’s a shame. If my kids were doing that I would sure like them to stop. Especially if they had stolen to get a supply, and lied about the drug use, as apparently the OP’s son has. The point is this has already had bad ramifications. I don’t know that I’d consider the fact that a bunch of other young drug users or binge drinkers think something is normal as particularly comforting.</p>
<p>How can it not be helpful to deal with all of a person’s medical issues - addiction and depression? There’s nothing frightening or shameful about the word “addiction.” It is merely a compulsion to continue to do something that has become a negative factor in one’s life. It doens’t have to mean mainlining in an alley somewhere. Why are you so quick to believe the depression part but not the addiction part?</p>
<p>
This is many people’s reason for addictive behavior. Nobody becomes an addict to something because it causes them more anxiety and depression. A lot of addiction is merely self medicating. That doesn’t make it any less of a problem.</p>
<p>I’m going to second bovertine’s comments. </p>
<p>Addiction and depression are medical issues. Some people are more susceptible to these conditions than others. I do not think the OP’s son can stop using pot without professional intervention. If he is using pot to medicate his depression, shouldn’t it be discontinued so the underlying cause of his depression can be addressed? </p>
<p>People are always surprised when they ask what my son has been up to and I actually tell them. Addiction isn’t shameful. It’s not doing anything about it that is.</p>
<p>The absolutely hardest thing for me to quit was smoking cigarettes (over 15 years ago). Quitting drinking and drugs was a cakewalk compared to that.</p>
<p>I never had to steal or lie or anything to smoke (that was before they cost $7 a pack). It probably helped me stay calm for my job. It didn’t cause me any mental problems that I know of. But it was not good for me, and it was not something I could just quit without some degree of agony.</p>
<p>It was an addiction. I’m not proud or ashamed of it. It is what it is.</p>
<p>Hi everyone…well its been a long and tiring day. I really lived up to my name today, wipedoutmom. Today, I feel utterly defeated and questioned why God would put me through something like this. I have lived my entire life “trying to do the right thing” for EVERYONE. I really mean that, always put everyone first. I am that person who will see someone at the market with three little kids struggling to put togehter the extra few dollars to pay her bill and quietly hand it to her, or to anonymously send a check to a family I know is in desperate need through a local community organization. I am no hero, but I do try to be a good and honest person. I have loved and taken the best care of my son that I knew how, yes he was my oldest and yes, there is that ever so delicate “learning curve” that we all have to learn from, but I thought I did a pretty decent job. Now I am questioning where I went wrong.</p>
<p>I met with the therapist, nice guy, but quick to admit that he doesn’t have a lot of experience with drug cases. He said this could be much much worse and in reviewing the history and in hearing from me for about an hour and a half, he concluded that we are first dealing with a kid very depressed and suffering from social anxiety who is self medicating with the pot, and not someone addicted to pot and therefore depressed from the pot. (He therefore concurs with primary therapist) It is his opinion that sending him away to residential treatment center being this depressed is not wise, he needs according to him, to be in the safe confines of his home with his family, the only place he feels truly safe and comfortable. </p>
<p>He asked if we have ever laid out any real consequences for the pot use instead of using idle threats? I said no. He said that’s the first thing to do. If not throwing him out literally on the street, then it might be just making him sleep in his car, or something like that, something out of his comfort zone as a consequence for not following the rule of smoking pot. He really doesn’t think he is “addicted” to the pot smoking. He really thinks he can stop it if he wants to. It is imperative for the drugs to work. Chris and he spoke on the on phone for about 30 min. he said Chris expressed more than anything that he wants to be freed from the social anxiety and depression. He said he “will do anything”. He said he must give it a solid 3 weeks of being pot free to fully give the meds a chance to work. He must be drug tested every day. He must obey the rules of no pot period. If he does smoke pot, he cannot spend the night in the house. He will be very upset not being able to sleep in his own bed, that is the idea is what the therapist said, to make it very uncomfortable for him but not so traumatic like throwing him out on the street, where he could do something really stupid.</p>
<p>This might be a pipedream, it might not work, it might work, it is worth trying. We will try this and see what happens. He feels strongly about treating the depression and social anxiety above all else, he really feels the pot is secondary. To me, what is “a lot” of pot he said is not really a lot. To me, any pot is a lot. It just is, it is illegal and I will never approve, especially with someone prone to addictive behavior like my son.</p>
<p>It is utterly overwhelming. I also spoke to a wonderful and kind woman who is an interventionist but after being on the phone for 45 min. we both concluded that his situation does not warrant an intervention. She said she does not do them for pot smokers unless they are mixing with other drugs, and that almost always pot smokers have underlying mental illness/depression that needs to be treated by trained professionals,etc…a whole different ballgame. So, my work continues. Of course this will all get run past his therapist, when she returns, that is if I decide I want to keep her on my payroll, which I am not so sure about quite honestly. But I am giving her the benefit of the doubt because as so many of you said, who knows how he has chosen to manipulate what she has said to his own benefit?</p>
<p>I will keep you posted. Thanks…</p>
<p>wipedoutmom – to my fresh ears it sounds like you are getting good answers and closer to a good treatment plan.</p>
<p>The message I’m hearing is to not freak out about the pot, and focus on the depression.</p>
<p>It seems like good advice.</p>
<p>WOM, after having read through this entire thread to date in a single sitting, please know that I am in awe of your strength and wisdom. I don’t feel I can add anything more to what’s already been said…other than as the mom of a 20 year old son, I don’t really think it’s possible for us to love our children “too much.” Although the hour seems dark, your story shows the upside of the power of online networking communities. You could well be any one of us out there. If you’re up to it, I think you would be well served by face to face communication with others who are going through the same think as you…there is always strength in numbers. Please know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.</p>
<p>WOM, bad things happen to good people. Your son doesn’t deserve to have depression. You don’t deserve to have a depressed drug-using son. You’re just unlucky, and now you have to deal with doing the next right thing.</p>
<p>The therapist’s plan makes sense to me. It’s not looking backward, just spelling out the next things you have to do. It’s simple, direct and immediate. Don’t take the drug test? Sleep in the car. Fail the drug test? Sleep in the car. No ifs, no ands, no buts, no excuses.</p>
<p>My overly simplistic view is that therapists are behavioralists at heart and will find someone’s behavior to explain problems. Psychiatrists are MDs that view these same problems as medical/biochemical, and will seek a drug solution. You will get less blame from the MD, I suspect.</p>
<p>If you want to continue with a therapist, I’d recommend looking for someone that uses energy medicine (e.g. EFT) as an adjunct to their practice.</p>
<p>(I have a neighbor w/a D with a drug problem. This girl’s therapist told her that she should visit home less often. Kid comes home once every 2 weeks or so to visit mom. She told her to come home less when Mom had just had surgery the week before! Mom and Dad have had cancer surgeries in recent years. I think it’s nuts to tell someone to stay away from a mother who just had surgery. Mom was hurt, of course.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The point is you didn’t do anything wrong. In fact, you probably did pretty much everything right. Our kids are unique human beings and while environment etc. plays a big chunk of how they turn out, they are still unique and by the time they are 16,17,18 they start making their own decisions…sometimes ones we would never make nor ones we would make for them. Your son is a smart kid, hopefully with the right help he’ll overcome whatever issues he’s dealing with and where he wants to go in life.</p>
<p>^^^ yes. Though I would posit that the age at which they start to set their own course, or parts of it, is even earlier.</p>
<p>Note to wipedoutmom: Do not give the car keys to him if he ends up sleeping in the car. Or disable the car so he can’t drive it away.</p>
<p>The plan of sleeping in car–negative reinforcement–vs his bed is interesting. I’ve never have thought of that in working with dual dx teens. It does seem that you and husband are are on the same page. I’m sure your son feels the love and support. </p>
<p>TTL–Psychologists and psychiatrists work closely with any young adult with depression and/or social anxiety &/or drug abuse. Meds are essential as well as cognitive and behavioral therapy, IMHO.</p>
<p>sending cyber hugs to you. I know how heartbreaking this situation is.</p>
<p>You are doing beautifully, WOM. You are strong and you can do this. We are all pulling for you.</p>
<p>WOM - Make sure you cancel the credit card. And think about taking away cellphone and/or laptop as a consequence. </p>
<p>I was also going to suggest some chocolate for you, the hero mom. But laughter has fewer calories. So have some of each;) I love these comic routines (Jeannie Robertson) - </p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Jeanne Robertson “Mothers vs Teenage Daughters”](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE82Gt93UYc&NR=1]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE82Gt93UYc&NR=1) </p>
<p>(This one is longer, but also very funny …)
[YouTube</a> - Jeanne Robertson “Don’t send a man to the grocery store!”](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YFRUSTiFUs&feature=related]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YFRUSTiFUs&feature=related)</p>
<p>We have a 23 year old and are stressing about his drug use too. (And his just floundering in so many ways.) We found on his Facebook page he has albums label “Here we are on ecstacy on New Years” “This is us on acid at Disneyland” etc from this year. Also he really acts out with us - of course we are to blame for everything. Over Christmas we actually told him to leave after he was home for only a few hours he was such a jerk. It is so hard on the whole family. </p>
<p>He is being so stupid to be using like this and even more stupid POSTING it on the internet. He wants to be an EMT (ambulance driver) and is taking classes but he doesn’t seem to get that they probably are going to avoid hiring a drug user for this job given the responsibilies and the fact that he will be close to drugs. </p>
<p>He is working part time, but not nearly supporting himself. Our mistake is we had saved money for college for him but he now has control of what is left (~ 15K) because of his age. He was supposed to gain control at 21, but by mistake (this is a good thing) he didn’t get it until recently. </p>
<p>We are paying about $800 a month for therapy for him and this has been going on for years. We don’t want to drop him as he clearly needs help, but this doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. To compound it, we are saving very little for the much younger one for college, as this seems like the more urgent need, but it is unfair. What to do? </p>
<p>I keep seeing the line about loving your child too much. I don’t think that is what the therapist is really saying or meaning. I don’t think you can love your child too much - love is a feeling. I think she is referring to behavior and we are guilty of this also - doing too much or our child, taking on his responsibilities. That is not love, although it may come from a place of love, it is misguided “help” that isn’t actually helpful. But I do hold that the “child” who is an adult in many of these cases is making their own choices and nothing we do causes them to take drugs. </p>
<p>My heart goes out to you. Many of us are struggling with this.</p>
<p>I am so sorry you are dealing with this, WOM. It’s not your fault, just like it’s not a parent’s fault when an adult child is diagnosed with MS, or loses a job, or gets a divorce. Unfortunately, almost every family is dealing with a similarly messy and/or troubling situation, so you have have lots of company. Hang in there, and remind yourself you do have lots of blessings in your life for which you are very grateful – and things will get better.</p>
<p>My question for your therapist is how you enforce the “sleep in the car” provision in the event of a failed or refused drug test. Short of employing brute force (which might mean hiring a bouncer) or calling the cops, how do you get a college student out of your house when that kid refuses to go? On the other hand, what is to keep the kid from simplying sleeping at a friend’s place on the nights he chooses to use pot (and fails or refuses a drug test)?</p>
<p>Topeysmom
My daughter recruits people for our local rescue squad. There was a recent applicant who posted about her recent drug use on twitter and by a coincidence, my daughter found that post. You can be sure that this applicant was not approved. I would hope that a professional company would check even more rigorously!</p>
<p>"I met with the therapist, nice guy, but quick to admit that he doesn’t have a lot of experience with drug cases. He said this could be much much worse and in reviewing the history and in hearing from me for about an hour and a half, he concluded that we are first dealing with a kid very depressed and suffering from social anxiety who is self medicating with the pot, and not someone addicted to pot and therefore depressed from the pot. (He therefore concurs with primary therapist) It is his opinion that sending him away to residential treatment center being this depressed is not wise, he needs according to him, to be in the safe confines of his home with his family, the only place he feels truly safe and comfortable. "</p>
<p>I used to work in the substance abuse field. I also have a son who had substance abuse problems.</p>
<p>Please find a therapist who is very experienced with substance abusers and their families. It is very easy for substance abusers to trick people --including therapists who lack experience in working with substance abusers. I’ve even seen substance abusers fool people who were longtime counselors who were recovering substance abusers themselves. </p>
<p>I also strongly recommend that you get involved with a self help group like Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. It helps a great deal to connect with other parents who have been through and are going through what you’re experiencing. </p>
<p>More than likely there are Nar-Anon and Al-Anon groups in your town, but you also can connect with them on-line.</p>
<p>(((WOM)))</p>
<p>It sounds like the therapist yesterday (and the primary) have it right. I had a long post typed up yesterday that I decided against posting that talked about treating the underlying condition because it could be that no addiction really exists - just a desire to tamp down the overwhelming anxiety.</p>
<p>The negative reinforcement approach is interesting. To me, the most important first step is getting the medications that bring relief on board, titrated to effective levels, which sometimes takes time and switching around. If he continues to smoke pot - that would make finding the perfect mix difficult. Once the meds are working, then therapy, CBT or perhaps even DBT will be much more effective and successful.</p>
<p>You didn’t do anything wrong, mental health issues don’t discriminate.</p>