<p>WOM-
Let me just say that I am pulling for you and your son. I would try to label somebody an addict or not an addict without even knowing them. It sounds like you have a good plan of attack here, and I really hope it works. It must be exhausting and frustrating. A lot of times you never know what will work and what won’t, and sometimes things just take time.</p>
<p>A urine toxicology screen will test positive for canabinoids (marijuana) for weeks after last use. Someone with substance abuse experience would know this, and be more credible.Who will be doing the tox screens? Is there a psychiatrist involved? That is where you will find the expertise regarding the role of medication in this situation. “Negative reinforcement is not the same as punishment”. It means something considered “Negative”, actually reinforces, strengthens, or increase the behavior. I am not understanding, but you have my best wishes.</p>
<p>It’s very difficult to know how mentally ill someone is or what the cause of their mental illness is when they still are using street drugs. I’ve seen people who seemed to be seriously mentally ill exhibit normal functioning after they stopped using street drugs.</p>
<p>It’s also very easy for someone who enjoys using street drugs to claim that the street drugs are helping with their depression, anxiety, etc. when in actuality the street drugs are contributing to their mental health problems.</p>
<p>More reason to have such a person treated by a professional who has lots of experience treating substance abusers.</p>
<p>My post above should read that I would never try to label somebody an addict without knowing them. I hope I didn’t come across as doing that. I was merely saying that I believe there is such a thing as a marijuana addiction. As far as WOM’s son, of course I have no idea.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap - excellent, you captured what was rolling around in my head about how to ascertain use or not.</p>
<p>Northstarmom - since the OP expressed that she suffered from social anxiety, I don’t think it’s a leap to give her son the benefit of the doubt.</p>
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<p>Now this is what I don’t get. Please explain this statement to me. Why is it giving someone the benefit of the doubt to assume they have a social anxiety problem, as opposed to a drug abuse problem. Neither is a character defect - they are both medical conditions.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m misunderstanding you.</p>
<p>This isn’t a situation in which one should give the benefit of the doubt. The son needs to be assessed by a licensed professional who is experienced with working with people with substance abuse and mental health problems.</p>
<p>I’m not stating there is a difference. I’m speaking specifically to addiction and self-medicating, to me, there is a difference between those two things, unless someone chooses to self-medicate with a physically addicting substance, like heroin.</p>
<p>I didn’t indicate that either is a character defect or not a medical condition.</p>
<p>I think finding someone with substance abuse experience is important. I think what many parents want to do is place the emphasis on the mental illness and consider the drug use as self medication. It does start out that way but often the drug abuse becomes much more serious and needs as much attention as the mental illness. Someone can begin drug use to ease social anxiety and before long become an addict. Dealing with the anxiety and depression with legal medications is not going to magically take away the drug use in many.
I have a friend whose D has a severe eating disorder. She had been in treatment at a top rated inpatient program for anorexics and bulimics. When her parents were putting her in treatment for the 2nd time for her eating disorder another friend let her know of her D’s reputation for cocaine use. This top notch treatment center did not once bring into consideration if their was some drug use involved. My friend contacted the treatment center who basically told her that her D was depressed and needed to continue seeing a therapist and someone for her eating issues on discharge. Her D needed to know her family supported her and welcomed her home. My friend went with her gut instinct and had her D transferred from one hospital to a drug treatment center. After being at the treatment center the D thanked her. She said her drug use had escalated to being like a snowball going down a hill. She did not know how it had gotten so out of hand. She started out experimenting with cocaine to help stay skinny. At this point the drug use was as serious of a problem as the eating disorder. This young woman had the drs and therapists at the eating disorder hospital convinced that her Mom was nuts and she had no drug issues.</p>
<p>Also many drug treatment centers are also licensed as mental health facilities. Many of the inpatient programs have on staff psychiatrists. I think there are two types of drug treatment facilities. Some are staffed by people in recovery and mainly treat addictions. But many others are like Cottonwood de Tucson, Sierra Tucson and The Meadows all in Arizona that treated a variety of addictions and mental health issues. I know of a woman our age who went to the Meadows for treatment of severe depression and PTSD. She doesn’t drink or use any drugs, not even caffeine. These places have inhouse medical clinics with Dr’s. licensed nurses and psychiatrists. They delve into all kinds of issues.</p>
<p>WOW, I hope your family gets some help. But I think I’m with Northstarmom on this one. I’m not going to say you **need <a href=“as%20in%20you%20must%20find”>/B</a>someone experienced in both substance abuse and mental illness to address your son’s issues- but that’s the route we chose to take.</p>
<p>We have been down this road with my S. It is a long and winding road full of bumps and bruises for all involved. My heart hurts for you, but you must take care of yourself. Make sure you take time for yourself, a mental health day, a cup of tea, a peice of chocolate cake, a long run… what ever works. That’s my first piece of advice.</p>
<p>Next, find a mental health expert who has experience with addiction and depression and and social anxiety(?) and young adults. They are out there. This is important. You wouldn’t hire a podiatrist to treat breast cancer. You need the right kind of specialist to help your son through this. He also needs to feel comfortable with the therapist. Try to remember that what he says to you about what is happening in therapy might not be what the therapist meant or even what happened. Your S is going to blame you for his problems for a while. Try really hard to not let that bother you (it’s really hard to do this…really really hard).</p>
<p>We had S take part in an intensive out-patient addiction group. I think he might have gotten more out of this than the therapy he did twice a week. It was full of kids his age, who were all facing some version of the same issues. Yes, some of them were taking much more hard core drugs than my S, but the underlying problems were the same. They were all, anxious, sad, depressed, worried about school, worried about friends. Being together and realizing that they weren’t alone really helped them all. They also did drug tests 2 or 3 times a week. They were kicked out of the program if they failed a test more than once. They also knew about the pot staying around a long time in the tests.</p>
<p>Because he was in the group, we knew he was drug free and that gave the depression meds a chance to work. This was a help.</p>
<p>We made a list of all of the money S owed us. We paid back his sister and little brother and added that money to the tab. We added some of the tuition from the semester before and told him he needed to pay us back. We helped him find a job (after he was unsucessful for 2 months). Maybe we shouldn’t have, but he was getting more depressed not finding a job. He is now working for UPS moving packages…he has been there for a year and likes the job…go figure on that one. My H has worked out a deal with him for repayment. As soon as we said the stealing must stop, it did. We took the credit card for a year and he has just now earned it back. </p>
<p>We let him drive a car. But, point out that the car stays with the house. If he chooses to move out or we make him leave, the car stays here. He needs the car to get to work…and he likes the job! He pays for gas.</p>
<p>We currently pay for the phone and internet, but that is also something that we have threatened to chop.</p>
<p>He is also taking classes at the local CC with some success and some not so good.</p>
<p>So, since I have rambled on not very coherently. I would not kick him out. He needs extra love and patience from you and your H. Not necessarily a lot of hands on parenting, but just a lot of positive reinforcment for any of the stuff he is doing right. Sometimes for us it was hard to see the good stuff in all of the other junk. But, look hard…say thanks when he clears his place or picks up his clothes or whatever you can find. Praise him for what ever!</p>
<p>I have seen improvement and small baby steps in my S. People still ask when he is going to move out and grow up and i just reply…when he is ready. I can try to answer any questions that you might have. Feel free to send me a PM. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.</p>
<p>MuppetMom
You know much more about all of this than I do. Your advice and commentary make SO much sense. I hope that WOM and her son have access to similar resources.</p>
<p>Best to you, your son, wipedoutmom, and her son,
~mafool</p>
<p>WOM -</p>
<p>forgive me, for I have not read this entire thread, just your first few posts and the last post.</p>
<p>My daughter (now age 20) was depressed and diagnosed with general and social anxiety last year. It is very very common for those with anxiety issues to become depressed. People with anxiety disorders are much much more prone to addiction (of any type - perscriptions, coke, alcohol, the self-medicating thing).</p>
<p>I could not believe the wide ramifications anxiety had on my daughter’s behavior - through out her life (now we know). Anxiety has been the root of much of my daughter’s problems through childhood, including constant illness.</p>
<p>We started the whole process with a physical with my Internist, who gave us the name of a Psychiatrist (depression was the first issue we dealt with). We saw the Psychiatrist within a couple of days, and our daughter started on an antidepressant. Daughter actually spiraled down and down and down for more than a month. We switched anti depressants. The Psychiatrist gave us the name of several therapists she knows and works with (important that the 2 work together, very important!!) and told us to go to the one we could get in with first, who had room in their calendar to see our daughter twice a week for several months. I went to the initial appointment with the therapist and gave her the history and typed up a list of observed behaviors, problems. Daughter started therapy twice a week right away. We all loved the therapist. Daughter met with the therapist 2 x week for 5 months, then went to 1 x week for 2 months, now about once every 2 weeks. My husband and I also meet with the therapist alone, ourselves, about every 3 - 6 weeks, and we have occasional meetings with all of us present.</p>
<p>It is a long process, and it takes lots of small successes to build your child back up to being functional again. But, from what I have read, combining anti depressants with talk therapy has very successful long term outcomes.</p>
<p>You must have the guidance and help from professionals through this. It is so so so very difficult to know what to do, how to help. We basically did not know how to parent our child through this. Tough love can have very negative results when dealing with anxiety. They can really crumble or go crazy if they feel so overwhelmed and can’t deal with something. But, there is a certain amount of failure the child needs to feel in order to learn how to self correct. </p>
<p>You must find a therapist who will work with you and your husband and your child, and give you guidance in how to help and parent your child. Sometimes I feel silly asking our therapist who to raise my child - but with these illnesses, it is not the same as parenting other kids. YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP and your child needs it, too. It takes time and patience. We rely totally on the therapists and pyschatrists professional opinion and guidance. </p>
<p>It was a very very long 6 months, but we did finally start to see improvement in our daughter. She still has a long road ahead of her, and we are taking it slowly, and we have all adjusted our expectations and time frame for our daughter.</p>
<p>My heart goes out to you, I have been in your shoes. It is extremely, extremely difficult. It is important that you try to take care of yourself. Make an appointment for yourself with your doctor, and maybe get a sleep aid (and lock it, and all other RXs up and hide from your son - my daughter stole our vicadin and sleeping pills). Another thing that helped me tremendously is that I walked 3 times a week with 2 different friends, outside. The exercise, but mainly the fresh air and ability for me to have my own talk “therapy” with these 2 friends is what totally saved my sanity.</p>
<p>Feel free to private message me. If there is anything I can share with you about our particular situation that might help you, I am happy to do so. </p>
<p>God bless you and good luck.</p>
<p>WOM - </p>
<p>Hang in there. There are lots of us fretting this week over college selection. But we do need to remember there are parents stressing over bigger problems too. </p>
<p>Good luck as you juggle things this week. There are many CC hopes and prayers for you and your family. You have done a good service alerting parents to things that can happen after college starts.</p>
<p>I know this may sound crazy, but my son’s best friend became a steady pot smoker (mom could smell it as he got out of the shower in the am), flunked out of top college first semester freshman year, went to residential treatment program, then 3 month outward bound type program, then lived in halfway house for many months, admitted he was gay (no one had any idea) and has been substance-free for two years, back in top school, totally happy, and doing great! I’m just saying you never know what the underlying cause of the depression/anxiety may be… WOM keep the faith, sounds like you’re doing everything you can.</p>
<p>“My husband abruptly had to leave town to go tend to a very sick relative on the west coast…”</p>
<p>Your husband has a very sick relative at home–his own child. I’m sorry about his uncle, but your kid comes first. It’s not something “additional” that you avoid “burdening” him with. That, and the fact that you see your kid’s actions as a “slap in the face,” make me wonder how much you are actually on your kid’s side, and how much you see his situation as being about you?</p>
<p>Kids who get into these situations–not smoking post and happy, but also depressed–are in a lot of pain. Obviously he is finding more of a relief from the pain from the pot than from the meds. </p>
<p>How much time do you actually spend with your son? I would suggest pulling the reins in. The tough love isn’t about kicking him out of the house. It’s about CARING enough to follow through with discipline, which it seems like you’ve been wishy-washy-ing with. And kids can tell or interpret that you don’t care if it’s easier for you to give in and avoid the hassle of their confrontation when they don’t get their way and you follow through. </p>
<p>Take away his friggin car and phone, internet and whatever perks but replace it with an abundance of extra time with him. Change your work schedule around, be with him, one-on-one time out with him. Start going to a place of worship and make him go with your husband. Find a family-oriented counselor that specializes in adolescent kids and family dynamics. Do you or your husband have a critical nature? A lot of depressed kids have low self-esteem from being put down all the time. When you talk with him, is it about the pot and failing out of school, which reinforces his emotional pain (every time you bring it up he is subconsciously condemned for doing it again and again) or do you praise him about his talents and find little things to make him feel good about himself? When he cleans his room or washes the dishes, does it look good? or do you pick out what he didn’t do? </p>
<p>Priority and Praise, make those your mantras. Good luck.</p>
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<p>This is spectacularly nasty and unhelpful advice to the poster who is in a bad situation. Sometimes there are competing needs. Life doesn’t always work out perfectly so that only one bad thing / one crisis happens at a time. Instead of criticizing her husband for being away right now (there is NOTHING to suggest that the husband isn’t engaged or that the situation is “about the OP” and not the son), why not just either offer support, helpful advice if you’ve been there, or step aside?</p>
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<p>This is beyond “spend more time with him.”<br>
And dragging someone to church who doesn’t want to be there is useless advice. No one has life epiphanies when being dragged someplace. If the OP wants to use a place of worship for her own support and strength, more power to her, but this is not the time and the place to suggest going-religious is going to do any good to anyone.</p>
<p>I just wanted to reiterate what earlier posters have said, that this kind of thing can happen in any family. You can’t necessarily look to the parenting and find something that they did wrong. One of my best friend’s college age son is currently having some difficulties, at this point the exact problem is unclear. My friend is consumed with guilt, where did he and his son’s mother go wrong. I’ve been trying to tell him that this can happen to anyone. Even if he had never made a misstep as a parent they could still have ended up where they are.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with letting the dad attend to his other family emergencies before he was fully apprised of what was going on with his son. The road to recovery for his son will be a long one, there was plenty of time for him to attend to his uncle and then come back and become engaged with what is going on with his son.</p>
<p>WOM, my sympathies and prayers go out to you. You are not alone. My kids, too, have had issues that have stretched us to breaking points. It’s never clear what the right thing to do is. In our case, we had to wait until WE felt we had to kick out our kids. It did not come to that, but it came close.</p>
<p>Do find a psychologist/mental health therapist for yourself. I think that is more important than looking for the right fix for your son. You CAN help yourself if you work at it. You cannot fix another person who is not willing to be fixed. Do the right things for your son and lead him to those options, but, more importantly be in touch with someone familiar with these issues of young adult depression/drug use to guide you through this process. It may take a few tries to get the right person for you. You may need some anti depressants yourself to help yourself through this. Al-anon has helped a number of parents I know, but it depends on the chapter that you attend. When it comes to the psychological issues, there has to be a fit in ways that more clinical problems do not need. </p>
<p>As for your son, I think that he no longer should have cash, credit cards, access to the car. His behavior is one of a younger irresponsible person, and you cannot trust him. You will need to search his room, clothes, etc and monitor his whereabout while he is in your house. Make sure jewelry and valuables are locked up for now so he cannot easily steal from you. That means putting a security check on your credit cards and bank accounts. Also on your other kids’ stuff. </p>
<p>Avoid confrontations with your son. Just be adamant about what your house rules are. Pot is illegal and he is endangering all of you with his illicit activities and stash. Try not to show anger, but concern and quietly explain that you don’t want this stuff in your house including within his body. Since he cannot be trusted to abide by these rules, you cannot trust him with a number of things.</p>
<p>My two oldest lost care privileges for years. One still does not have them back. I also refused to drive them to their activities unless they were thoroughly vetted by me and I felt they should go. I also made it clear that I sadly did not trust them. I kept one on a really tight leash for a while, but it nearly drove me nuts. </p>
<p>A lot of kids go through this and other problems as they go into young adulthood. It’s like they go through a madness of sorts. I can now say that MOST do manage to get it together in time. But the fear is always there–and, yes, I live this fear, not only regarding my older boys but for the ones yet to go through this age, that they will not survive it. This is why I go to therapy, to try to come to terms with this while still living my life the right way, productively and being the best mother, wife, person I can be. I can’t help what THEY, whoever THEY may be, including my kids, do, but I can do the right thing for them to go alongside, if they wish.</p>