Problems with IB - sciences are a joke

Pre-College Issues International Baccalaureate (IB)
1

<p>I'm sorry, I'm an IB student and I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in the program, but there are times when I just want to vent. This applies to my school's magnet IB program, at least, and by performances it's far above the national/international standard.</p>

<p>IB science classes are a joke measured with their AP counterparts. Case in point: As my teacher let slip one day, IB physics isn't even a real physics class - it's a collection of random, oversimplified formulas and, most ridiculously, doesn't even involve calculus. Only a few people in my class were able to successfully take the AP physics C exams because they were orders of magnitude more complex than the algebra based "physics" we did there. And I fear colleges may recognize that. Similar things go, I've heard, with IB chem, bio and especially environmental sciences (lol?). </p>

<p>The program's academic shortfalls don't end there. The IB languages, or at least from my experience the Spanish SL, are massively simpler than the AP's and even the HL's are piddly compared to the fluency exams that you actually care to prepare for in the same year. IB English is known to be one of our strong points but we apparently have commentary formats and assignments that nobody outside of IB has ever heard of, and I don't see how that's supposed to help us at all. "Theory of Knowledge" sounds like an interesting class, but from my experience with various teachers its curriculum is entirely arbitrary and idiosyncratic, and it's all style and pandering, no real substance.</p>

<p>IB HL math seems impressive in that it actually does something not covered in the AP's - IB "math studies", on the other hand, is just a sorry joke. But the primary problem with these courses is that you are often forced to take them to get your diploma in place of taking far more rigorous and legitimate courses. And that's just ridiculous. </p>

<p>Speaking of diplomas, since you receive it after college decisions come out nobody really cares about it unless if they're applying internationally. But of course, we still pay 800 bucks skillfully disguised within the program as "exam fees" for them anyway.</p>

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<p>Now don't get me wrong, I love the program and could write an even more disjointed ramble ten times as long praising it, and I would encourage people to prove my points wrong here...I'm just sort of stressed out right now, lol.</p>

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<p>I’m not going to try to prove your points wrong, but maybe I can give a different perspective. I am now in higher education, but I spent 16 years teaching high school Biology. The last 12 years. I was immersed in the IB programme. I taught IBHL Biology all 12 years. I taught Environmental Systems 1 year. The last year I was there, I was the IB coordinator. And I had 2 daughters earn the IB diploma. In addition, for 7 of the last 12 years, I taught AP Biology too, until our school decided to discontinue it and only offer IB Biology.</p>

<p>You say you are stressed, and that is normal. I used to make a line graph of the mood of an IB student over the course of the 2 years and show it to my juniors. It starts out high at the beginning of junior year, because you are excited to take on the challenge of IB. The graph goes continually down junior year as the reality of the difficulty and amount of work sets in. Some quit at this point. Those who remain start out senior year at a high point, feeling good because they didn’t quit. Fall is filled with the stress of college applications, so again the graph falls and hits an all time low in March, when all the IAs and EE are due to IB. After that, it is an upward curve - April spent reviewing, and May purging what you’ve learned on all those IB exams. So hang in there, the stress is temporary.</p>

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<p>Now about the sciences - I can’t speak for Physics, since we did not teach it in our school. But you’re right, it is Algebra based, and shouldn’t be compared to AP Physics C, which is Calculus based. We had Chemistry and Biology HL at our school, and they are every bit as challenging as AP, and at least in our state, colleges give equivalent credit for AP & IB Chemistry and Biology.</p>

<p>I know IB and AP Biology well. I liked the IB curriculum better than AP (old curriculum) because 1) IB sciences require students to do individual, student designed inquiry labs. Until the curriculum redesign of AP Biology in 2013, AP Biology labs were all cookbook - called “the dirty dozen”. I would spend hundreds of dollars on supplies, and even the students said “why do we bother doing the lab, if you read in the lab manual, you know what will happen.” The labs were boring and predictable. 2) The pass rate was MUCH better with IB. In AP, from 2008-2012, the national pass rate was about 50%. For IB, it was in the low 70%. The interesting thing to me was that AP redesigned their course in 2013, and it looks more like… IB Biology. Inquiry labs, and less reliance on multiple choice.</p>

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<p>dheldreth - I just read your post to my son who is home for Christmas break - we had a chuckle together because you nailed it! My son was sooooo stressed fall of senior year…it was awful. He would never admit IB wasn’t worth it but from a parents perspective, I wouldn’t recommend it. I think quality of life counts while your “in school” too and he really didn’t have any. Thank heavens for college - so much easier!</p>

5

<p>I agree, college, especially freshman year, is usually easier that IB. Though I am obviously a fan of the IB Programme, I definitely wanted my students to go in with their eyes open, so I showed my graph! It really is hard to find a balance when you are in IB, and as a parent you do wonder if it is worth it. What I saw with my own children, and hopefully your son found this as well, is that they went off to college with great research and writing skills, with the ability to think deeply about and analyze topics across the curriculum, and to look at issues from different perspectives from their own. They were able to make excellent grades in college from the start because they already had the study skills and time management skills needed.</p>

6

<p>As an IB student with friends at other schools in AP, I think IB and AP Sciences both have their merits and disadvantages. However, I don’t think IB is very helpful to American students, or any students that take SAT subject tests (which aren’t generally required of students that aim for colleges outside the US, which is the vast majority of IB students worldwide). The curricula don’t align and so having to study a very different AP-based curriculum for the SAT subject tests adds a lot of unnecessary stress for the IB students when life would have been much simpler by taking AP classes. I do believe that both IB and AP can prepare students well for college, and the differences/gaps in their respective curricula can be covered during the first few classes in college so there is no noticeable difference between the AP and IB student.</p>

7

<p>Agree with all your points cosmology except that most of the IB diploma students in the world are from the Unites States - 68,219 out of 127,284 in May of 2013, or ~54%. Canada was a distant second with 9,774. Even if you include November 2012, where far fewer US students test, it is 68,466 out of 137,456, or about 50%. Most don’t realize this but the US is the #1 IB country.</p>

8

<p>With how my school has explained the two paths to me, it seems like you’re trying to compare oranges to apples. I also know that while the IB has their standards, each teacher applies their own knowledge and skills to the curriculum like any other. It’s honestly all up to how the teacher approaches the material. Everyone at my school hates the English classes due to the teachers being absolute jokes, but that doesn’t mean that the IB English isn’t good.</p>