Problems with USC

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
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Hey all,

I’m a scholarship student at USC this year and considering transferring out. I’ve been talking to a few people about the problems I’ve been having, but wanted to post my thoughts for those you in college decision season. There are pros and cons to every school and I’d encourage everyone to consider all of these. People tend to look at the good things about a school but I feel issues tend to be what are overlooked in the process. Anyways take these with a grain of salt and feel free to reach out for additional questions / details (I’m just giving the overview).

  1. Location-wise, LA can be a pain without a car. There isn't much public transport, and since there isn't much after the immediate area around campus, it feels kind of like an island. People don't leave much. Especially if you're a major like Engineering, or Pre-Med. I definitely wanted a more experience with outside the campus (colleges with a college town are better for that). In general, you shouldn't expect a very immersive experience with LA, unless you take easy classes and don't do much else on campus.
  2. Culture-wise, the school is definitely pretty exclusive. The greek system dominates a lot of social life on campus, and they are very snobby and exclusive. It's also predominantly white business majors. Not much diversity at all. Even though USC is statistically diverse, friend groups tend to form largely around race, so you don't really get a diverse multicultural experience. People tend to stick to their own which is disappointing. If you are looking for an intimate, open and multicultural experience, USC probably isn't the best place.
  3. Quality of life issues - this is an issue at other schools too, but I find disappointing only since USC is a well-endowed private institution. Students find ways to make it work by 2nd semester freshman year so it isn't a huge deal, but just something to think about. Food is notoriously terrible, the gym is small, old, broken down, and usually so packed its hard to get a workout done with out it take twice as long as usual. Freshman dorms are very old as well, don't have AC etc. Again not a problem most of the year, just takes some time to get used. But something to think about.
  4. Weather really doesn't matter. USC has nice weather most of the year, but don't let this affect your decision at all. When it comes down to it academics (your program) and the culture (student body) matter MUCH more.
  5. CS program: First, the intro curriculum is in C++, which isn't a great intro language for new programmers. Something to think about. There aren't many elective offerings for undergrads. For example, the machine learning course is a grad course and is super hard to get into since there are 20k grads at this school. Electives in general tend to be security, networks, or games focused (and research opps) so if thats not your area of interest, probably not the best program. The graduates problem is also an issue for events like career fairs, since they are usually flooded and not every useful since they are so packed. Overall, there just isn't much investment into CS. It isn't the university's focus. The CS building is one of the oldest on campus, classes have many inconsistencies, and assignments and projects aren't great. I did a lot of CS before college, so came in with some perspective on this.
  6. General issues with campus being progressive - minimal recycling, smoking is allowed on campus, etc. (UCLA is way more progressive in this sense).
  7. There are more things but these are the big areas - it should mostly come down to what program you're applying for, so look into that the most.

That said, USC is still a great school, and on an upwards trend. Just do your research before coming anywhere.
Hit me up if you want more info! Cheers.

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editing will post again in a bit, sorry!

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What schools are you considering transferring to?

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I haven’t really been at USC long enough to address most of your cons, but number 5 makes no sense to me. UCLA’s introductory CS courses also revolve around C++. I was actually going to attend UCLA before choosing USC, so I even looked up the textbook and it was called “Absolute C++” or something like that. I don’t know what the obsession is with C++, but it seems fairly common. I recall Cal State Long Beach revolving around Java, but I don’t really care for Java that much, so I probably wouldn’t have enjoyed their intro courses.

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Many of your concerns and discoveries after matriculating were concerns my child has had about the social environment at USC, though many of her classmates are quite excited about it, and many of the older classmates who attended different schools for Freshman year seem to do an about-face and transfer into USC for Sophomore year.

Truly, one can never get an accurate feel for a university until one is quite invested in it: one must do time on the campus and in its halls and classrooms to begin to assess if the fit is wonderful for them, or does not even deliver what the visit and expectations from the viewbooks and research seemed to promise.

It is disheartening to hear that you are trying to live in a place that presents itself as undesirable now that you are there. Our emotions very often deeply influence how well we operate in whatever condition we find ourselves.

One question: were you unable to visit the university before applying and accepting? LA truly is not the walkable cosmopolitan area that some other large cities are, but comprised of all those towns and cities and neighborhoods connected by freeways to each other, but not necessarily accessible for exploring unless you have wheels.

There are websites devoted to supplying the information that would help to know what others have found to be great walkable places where the town is welcoming of the college and its student population. Please look for those, search out sites where students rate the offerings of the local area for college students, and check the web pages of the colleges and universities you will be looking at for definitive statements about their relationships with the locals, and try to visit and talk to people.

I wish you well. Thanks for posting this, it is something for students to think about.

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Sorry to hear about the problems you are having. I am a bit surprised about some of your concerns.

In terms of location and getting around - the expo line next to campus takes you to downtown la (where there are lots of activities and great places to eat), and other points like Hollywood, Pasadena, and the west side. Uber also makes it super easy to get around without needing your own car. Plus there are many programs on campus, like JEP, that organize events for you to participate in the community. Hard to imagine you cant find a way to take advantage of LA.

The greek system does have a strong presence in campus life, but there are many campus clubs and non greek events like Visions and Voices that provide lots of extracurricular opportunities to meet new people with diverse backgrounds. I have personally found a much more inclusive environment, so that is disappointing to hear you have experienced otherwise. Check out the campus activities site: http://campusactivities.usc.edu/

I noticed that the food at USC gets decent reviews on student forums, and the executive chef has impressive credentials. I recently ate at the Lab and Moreton Fig and the food was great. Plus the campus center has CPK and the Habit so you cant go wrong there. I can’t speak to the dorms, but the new Village seems like it will make an big impact on quality housing as well as adding new places to eat and shop.

The CS program was rated #14 undergraduate program by US News, so there must be something there to warrant that.

In terms of being progressive, USC recently announced a major sustainability initiative (http://www.provost.usc.edu/announcement/sustainability-2020/ ) aimed at addressing key issues like recycling and having an environmentally friendly footprint. USC is a bit behind on this issue, but seems dedicated to advancing this area.

Not trying to refute your concerns - your opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s. Maybe you just need to look at things a bit differently and focus on the good parts. But, if things just aren’t clicking for you, it may be best to move on and find a better fit somewhere else.

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Interesting post @CharlesDavis, sorry it isn’t everything you hoped it would be. With two at USC and a third at another school, I can only offer my experience which is that of a parent, versus yours as a student, which is super valuable.

I am very happy for my two Trojans, I love the school and the experiences they have had. Would 100% do it again, no question. The job/connections they have going forward are too good to believe sometimes. They have gotten so much out of the USC experience, by taking responsibility for their experience. They made it what it is. We told them to get everything they could out of college while they were there, and they have. But…there are times over the years that it has really frustrated me - mainly worrying if they were doing enough about safety issues, the surrounding neighborhood, too many students, feeling like a number kind of thing and losing that private school feel. While we are Trojans through and through, I am not blind to the things you bring up and they are worthy of discussion. Hoping there are some ideas in here to help you…

I apologize in advance for the length of this!

  1. Location/Car - Agree with the car thing. It can be great to have one at some point (like most colleges) - but mine uber everywhere, which is way safer, cheaper and less risk/hassle, or maybe one in the group has a car. They have been all over socal, that may happen more over the next couple years for you. Some are 21 now and downtown LA is big whether for dinner, Staples Center event, a comedy club, or other random entertainment. They sign up to be fillers at big Hollywood events through the film school. However, my engineer didn’t do hardly anything as a freshman, too busy making A’s! Ramped up socially a bit as sophomore, as a junior he mastered great grades with a balanced and fun social life.

I understand USC now pays for Uber rides daily from 8pm-2am (something like that) that are within a couple miles of campus or within the school zone…that is such a good thing for so many reasons.

  1. Greek dominance - Mine just don't care about it. USC is only 20% or so greek, but I get that they are loud on the weekends. :) Greek didn't affect their life at all basically.
  2. Quality of Life stuff - Diverse - wow, USC is 35% international and when I am there I have to listen for English sometimes. But totally get what you mean that race groups around race. Sometimes diversity causes more segregation if that makes sense! That is annoying anywhere, even in my neighborhood and at my age, it can be harder to make close friendships outside of your race. Isn't that silly in 2016? I think that is a societal issue. Colleges can be clicky, but one theme I see is that achieving students want to hang with other high achievers, etc. Since you are a big scholarship kid, you probably housed in Birkrant? Sometimes I hear that is not a good dorm for making friends? I think it is one of the older dorms (but not positive on that). If you stay, see if there are any good CS related groups you can get into. You need to find "your people," I totally get that. I hope you do! Sometimes it takes beyond freshman year to do that.

Gym - I would think the gym for the general population was built when the school was 1/2 it’s size so it probably does suck now. A lot of the larger apartment complexes have their own gyms which is what a lot of students may use after freshman year. The athlete facilities are obviously out of this world at USC, but I only saw those because one is an athlete.

Dorms - Had one in Parkside A&S, super modern with A/C, it was fab. So there are good and bad choices for housing there. We only considered dorms with AC. Food was ok for dorm food, but of course you get tired of it. After freshman year I saw a lot of charges for Chipotle, etc., and the Kogi food truck is a biggie on Tuesday nights! You will be done with the dorm cafeteria soon!

Setting - I personally didn’t like that USC doesn’t have lush green lawns like I had in college, but it is an urban campus and is so beautiful in so many ways. If open space is important, USC is not the school for you (nor is NYU, etc.) USC feels way more like NYC than rural Nebraska. :slight_smile:

  1. Weather - Perfect, but if you like and want snow, not the place for you.
  2. CS - here we really differ. The CS program has been stellar for mine. He and his friends are all super successful achieving students in CS or closely related fields in engineering or math. He is a TA, with lots of connections to great organizations and professors. They all have fantastic internships after second and for sure third year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them band together after college to create the next big thing (they already have a good start on some great apps and projects). Maybe courses will be easier to get as you move up? Mine is doing a CS major and 2 minors with no probs getting classes he wants. Although, he says his GEs are awful.

Career Fair - Agree about the career fair, you stand in line 2 hours to talk to one person and it is over. Forget trying to talk to Microsoft or Facebook, it is a joke. They have to fix that. None got their internships from the fair. The friends that got Microsoft or similiar prestigious internships got them independent of the fair.

Anyway, every school has issues that is for sure. Our experience doesn’t match yours, but no school is all rosy and maybe by discussing them, you can get suggestions to make it better. At UCLA for example, getting classes, changing majors, and graduating in four years can be impossible. But they are known for good food, green lawns and a much nicer neighborhood. There is always a trade-off in everything you do in life. You are attending with a big merit award, right? If you transfer, you won’t get that kind of scholarship again will you? Plus, those deadlines are now for next fall transfers. Can you give it another year and see if it gets better? There are a lot of posters sincerely interested in helping others on this forum, I find it to be friendly and supportive (compared to other sites). I hope you get some helpful suggestions/persepctives and USC turns into a great experience for you. If it is just not a good fit, some may be able to offer suggestions on alternatives.I wish you luck!

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I agree that it helps to have a car. I disagree about the CS department. CS is a priority at USC and ARWU rates USC CS in the world’s top 10. You can teach the basics of CS with C++ as long as the people doing the teaching take it slowly and don’t try to cover the whole language in a semester.

As for the other issues, they sound like complaints that students at any school might make. The grass isn’t always greener…

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You didn’t know this before enrolling?

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I don’t think the car thing is even true. My sons are total city kids, used to getting around on public transportation. They don’t even know how to drive. They’ve done fine with the Expo line and the USC shuttle downtown. Their friends use the campus Zipcars, when necessary, and Uber pool works well.

Also, for point #3, isn’t there going to be be a brand spanking new gym when USC Village opens in 2017?

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  1. This is just an excuse for laziness... What other college in LA has 3 metro rail stops next to it? I have friends at UCLA that have never stepped outside their 30 acres of downtown Westwood in 3 years, and I have to drive up every time to meet them. What does being an Engineering or Pre Med major have to do anything? We aren't registered with an ankle bracelet that forbids us leaving campus the second we enroll in Viterbi.
  2. How many college campuses have you been on where you can declare this as being exclusive to USC? All your points may as well be addressed as reasons to not go to college. I actually transferred two times, and can say with absolute experience that it is so much worse elsewhere. The larger the school, the more segregated it is. You might find a more 'tolerant' student body at a Liberal Arts school like Williams or Amherst, but those schools are 90% white anyway. Race is a simple filtering process for finding people that are more like you, among 10s of thousands of potential friends. If you had joined any club at all related to CS, you'd find that it's one of the most diverse congregation of students anywhere. Our CS program is almost 50% girls, and our CS games more than 50%, which no other CS program other than Stanford can come close to boasting.

Fraternities involve less than 20% of the study body. You’re imagining you’re the only GDI. Look around our CS lecture halls and ask yourself if you spot anyone you think is in a fraternity. The answer is probably 1 or 2. Being a CS major myself that took 103/109 last semester, CS students are some of the chillest I’ve met. The more excuses you come up with to not get to know people e.g. not in greek, different race, business majors - the more angsty you’ll get at the school rather than yourself for not having close friends.

  1. Myself and literally everyone else in this thread disagree with your for a reason. USC's CS undergrad program is probably only second to Stanford in the state. Job placement numbers reflect this. Almost every upperclassman I know has interned at a Big 4 (FB, Microsoft, Google, Amazon). Not a realistic benchmark for all, but that's what I see with the people I interact with. Making C++ the undergraduate language was one of the best strategic decisions they've done. This is how it's done at Stanford and Harvard. It's the perfect lead-up to understanding data structures & algorithms because C++ is such a pure language, and C++ ties closely into the 2 most utilized languages in industry - Javascript and Java. I discovered I knew Javascript before I wrote a single line of it.

Meanwhile Berkeley kids are still messing around with Python - the easiest language - into their third semester. Their midterms and finals are a comparative joke. Anyone that gets through 103/104 at USC is absolutely prepared to take on any programming related pursuit in their life. Not bad for 1 year of slightly harder subject matter.

And there is little leeway to argue that USC doesn’t care about the CS program when you took 103 just last semester. Since you took 103 last semester, you literally had the privilege of being taught by the best 103 professors in USC’s history. 109 was questionable, but going into 170 and 104 has again completely cemented my belief that USC secures some of the best teaching faculty in the world. Everyone loves these guys, as you can see from ratemyprofessors and general sentiment. They work hard to take multiple sessions a day to keep class sizes around 50-60, while Berkeley students deal with 1200 people in their lecture halls.USC has invested heavily in providing the best possible instruction in the foundations of CS to the point that we’re truly spoiled. I came from another university and you have absolutely no idea.

By the way, I remember you making this post here 2 months ago.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19053369/#Comment_19053369

You were getting called out for not actually being a USC student, and while I don’t think there’s enough evidence to suggest that’s the case, everything you brought up in your post sounds like very distanced perspective with no granularity other than: LA is bad, little diversity, C++ bad. Making this post right when kids are deciding on their commitments also brings up certain levels of doubt. Hmm

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How a student chooses to engage in a school and all that it has to offer will ultimately influence their view of it. Luckily, there are posters on this forum that can offer an enlightened and experienced-based view. Regardless of any negatives at USC (and every school has some), I have never questioned the quality of the education, particularly in CS.

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@epicer

I definitely agree with some of the points you’ve made. Much of what I wrote is thoughts I had last semester, which have slightly shifted this semester. I attributed part of my frustration to just having some back courses last semester, but still stand by most of my points.

I also don’t think jobs at the Big 4 are really setting any sort of bar. I"d say jobs at the hottest most competitive companies (i.e. Twitter, Pinterest, Yelp, Quora, Palantir, startups, etc.) are what set the bar.

I would say Berkeley’s CS curriculum is far better than USC’s. Harvey Mudd and Caltech probably as well but they are different types of schools (small) so harder to compare. Berkeley has very practical projects in its intro course that use APIs, machine learning etc. Their course is also much more rigorous and in-depth than USC’s. We were still learning file i/o by the 8th week or so, Berkeley is already at recursion by the second week. USC’s intro courses have meaningless PA’s with poorly written skeleton code. Not to mention Python and Java are much better intro languages than C++. Harvard uses C partially, but also teaches web dev among other things. Their CS class has a world-famous professor and bunch of modern components like hackathons, a creating open-ended final project, mandatory videos on how to solve programming and other things. Oh and Stanford uses Java by the way.

Here’s my thought process on C++: Why weigh students down with memory allocation when they should be focusing on all the other core concepts in programming? There’s a reason that most top 20 programs don’t use C++ for intro courses , including MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, UT Austin, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, UW, Michigan, Illinois, etc.

I did 4 years of programming before college, interned at a big 4 in high school, worked on 2 startups, and have offers from 3 of the big 4 for this summer. I feel I have some credentials to make an educated critique of the CS program.

And if you think I’m not a USC student than that’s ridiculous. I’m not on here because I’m some pro-UCLA USC-hater. I got a full scholarship to come here so I’ve done a lot of in-depth thinking into these issues. I think my more important point is that students need to consider all aspects of a school, the good AND the bad. Too often, people just focus on the good, and only realize the bad when they get there, which is what causes a lot of people to transfer. I don’t want other students to make the same mistake I did.

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The quality of life issues that OP brought up we’re all concerns that I had when we visited campus. My daughter felt that she would essentially be stuck inside this lovely island–while it’s nice, I’m sure it gets claustrophobic. Hearing that there is heavy police security within a 2 mile radius of campus only enhances that impression. The free uber rides too-- all of these things have been put into place for a reason, and that reason is that the campus is in an unsafe area.

As to the student mentality, our Uber driver told us her experience with USC students was that they tended to have an attitude of entitlement in contrast w UCLA students, who seemed much more down to earth to her. She thought it was odd because she says UCLA is in a much nicer/richer area and you’d think they’d be snobbier. Just one person’s experience. The students we met were not like that at all, btw. I had a great impression of the program and the students–I just don’t know if the school will be a good fit. It will probably be a moot point anyway because I doubt we’ll get enough aid to be able to afford it.

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Let’s see, an uber driver thought the kids at an exclusive private school where political leaders and zillionaires send their kids thought they seemed more entitled than those that go to a state school that is half the price. I think the people shopping at Nordstrom feel more entitled than those shopping at Target. People do realize that UCLA students aren’t actually from Westwood, Beverly Hills, and Bel Air, right? Ya, I think I would put more into perspectives, whether good and bad, from people that actually have experience at the schools than an uber driver. USC students tend to be ones that love the adventure of an urban existence and that certainly isn’t for everyone, just like UCB.

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It’s is all a matter of perspective. My friends daughter attends USC and sees the campus location as a plus. She got involved with campus programs where she volunteers in the community. This experience has shed new light on her perception of the neighborhood - working class families with hopes and dreams like everyone else. She doesn’t see the neighborhood as a place to avoid, but to embrace and help. She and her friends regularly hop on the Metro line (which has stations right next to campus) and head to downtown (2 stops away) as well as Hollywood and other places. Like any urban location (including UCLA, NYU, Columbia, Berkeley and many other top schools), there is crime, but the vast majority of students will never have a problem if they use some common sense. She is loving her time at USC and wouldn’t trade her experience for anything.

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@choirsandstages Totally agree. Though the safety thing actually isn’t an issue at all. I mean basically don’t walk around alone at night, and don’t walk too far off campus (it’s clear when you hit the ghetto area). Otherwise I’ve never felt unsafe. But it does get claustrophobic to an extent eventually. And you’ll definitely find UCLA to be much more open. Berkeley as well. There’s a lot of rich kids at USC and it can feel very entitled and exclusive at times. The quality of the neighborhood doesn’t really affect the student body much.

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“You might find a more ‘tolerant’ student body at a Liberal Arts school like Williams or Amherst, but those schools are 90% white anyway.”

Ummm… what? Amherst is nearly half students of color, and is one of the most economically diverse colleges in the nation. Williams is not far behind on either measure. Where do you get your information?

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" I got a full scholarship to come here "
Well, someone who is PAID to go to a top 25 University and then whines about their experience at USC is not going to receive very much sympathy…
btw- DS was also a Trustee scholar and made the most of his opportunities at USC, instead of complaining about Greek life, USC’s location, and ALL the things he could not do anything about. He is now At Caltech finishing up his PhD.

You were smart enough to receive a full tuition scholarship, but not smart enough to do research on everything that was known about USC 4 years ago? :open_mouth:
I suggest a change of attitude is in order, if you want to succeed in life.
you were LUCKY to be PAID to go to USC.
Someday you hopefully will recognize that…

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@menloparkmom

I think you’re a bit mistaken here. I am very honored and humbled to have received my scholarship. I actually chose USC over other top-tier institutions like Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth and Berkeley. I came because it would put the least burden on my parents.

I think saying that I need a change in attitude or haven’t recognized the value of my scholarship isn’t true at all. I also think it isn’t fair to say somebody isn’t smart if they want to transfer. There are lot of aspects of a school you don’t simply derive from “research” or “visiting”. There are somethings you only learn/realize after attending the school. Or from talking to students who didn’t like the school (which is something most students don’t do). That’s why transfer admissions even exist at most places and many people do transfer.

I did a TON of research on colleges before I came here - especially since I easily could have chosen prestige over USC. And I"m not searching for sympathy either, I’m just trying to bring to light things I’ve noticed at USC that I didn’t fully think about or know about before coming here. I think its valuable prospective students consider the full picture instead of some over-romanticized portrayal of USC has (great academics, great parties, beautiful weather, nearby beaches, hot girls, etc. etc.) which can easily be what people think sometimes.