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I attended public schools growing up and would say that at the time I attended they were very much the quality of the private schools my kids attended.
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<p>There are private schools that aim solely for academic excellence and some that provide those who seek a way out of public schools, for a myriad reasons other than academics (e.g., religious and racial seperation/isolation), with an alternative.</p>
<p>There are now private schools with $100+ Million permenant endowments (such as St</a>. Marks School of Texas) that annually produce graduating classes with 30+% NM Finalists and 50+% Finalists/Commended. (class of 2008 stats:St</a>. Marks School of Texas; class of 2007 had 25 Finalists and 24 Commended out of a total senior class of 87).</p>
<p>The education at this type private school definitely exceeds the public school product. </p>
<p>But, Proudparentof4, you are correct that not all students at even these schools have wealthy parents since there are need based scholarships available, so for some students a cap on the number of private school students who could get NMS would disadvantage some non-wealthy private school grads.</p>
<p>Thanks 07DAD exactly. I think that although National Merit may not be equal across all categories, with all the different scenarios, and situations, it is just impossible to do that. And National Merit is not the only way to have merit aid anyway. My daughter rooms with the valedictorian of the public hs in our town. She was not even commended on National Merit and went on to score 1600/1600 on her sat. She did not lack for merit money.</p>
<p>As far as I know, the only private school students who are held to a different standard are those who attend a small number of boarding schools at which a large percentage of students are from out of state. These schools have their own cutoff score, and a correspondingly small number of merit finalists, given their high SAT scores. I assume that this, like the state by state cutoff scores, is intended to prevent, say Exeter, from having 150 NMF's each year.</p>
<p>If you want to wine about national merit, I'd like to wine about college admissions. People who applied to HYPS, etc. two years ago had to compete with more than 7,000 less kids than we do today (class of 2012)....how is that fair?! Life ain't fair!</p>
<p>I'm the parent of a NM Finalist and a kid who is test-challenged but has a strong GPA. The NM Finalist got more mail, particularly from schools he had never heard of and/or didn't want to attend. He also got a $2000 annual scholarship added to a need-based award at a very expensive private college that he dropped out of after 2 years. He will graduate from lower-tier public in our state. </p>
<p>My #2 kid didn't even bother with the PSAT junior year (she was out of the country), but her SAT scores wouldn't even have put her in the running for commended. She had generous offers of merit aid, equal or great than the NM awards, at several colleges --including an identical offer of a $2000 merit scholarship from one in-state public that her brother had also applied to. She is attending a prestigious private college that does not offer NM awards, with a need-based award somewhat more generous than the package her brother had when he started college. </p>
<p>Basically NM is a scholarship contest that means very little in the overall scheme of things. Fairness has very little to do with it -- if life were "fair" then they wouldn't based a "merit" scholarship on the results of a single standardized test. I don't think it's particularly fair that my hard-working daughter would be judged based on standardized tests that she does not do as well on as her somewhat lazier older brother -- I love them both, but she's the better student, as clearly borne out by their respective college GPA's. </p>
<p>I was glad to have the extra money from NM for my son.... but I never looked at it as anything different than a winning lottery ticket. He got lucky in the NM sweepstakes; she didn't. That's about it. I don't see why it matters in the least what set of criteria NM uses for awarding arbitrary scholarships. </p>
<p>You know what bugs me more? The fact that white students, no matter how poor, can't qualify for Gates Millenium scholarships, which are given only to low income African American, American Indian/Alaska Natives, Asian Pacific Islander American, and Hispanic American students. Basically every ethnic group except caucasian. It doesn't hurt my kids --our income is too high to qualify in any case -- but to me that is a much more overt case of "unfair" than the operation of a statistical calculation which is simply the quantitative outcome of applying a specific numerical formula. That is, national merit is "national" because it awards the status in direct proportion to the percentage of graduating seniors in each state - it isn't really based on raw test scores, it is based on percentiles, and it just happens that the underlying raw score to reach those percentiles varies from state to state.</p>
<p>NMSF doesn't mean too much for the really competitive states in terms of college admissions.
The PSAT is curved in a way that it is hard to do really well too.
I'd agree in a sense. With my PSAT score, I would have been NMSF for sure at 30-40 other states, but since I'm from New York, forget it. haha!</p>
<p>I'm a Louisiana NMSF (I'll hear about NMF by February). I got it with a 209, so I clearly wouldn't have made it in a good chunk of states.
Is that fair? Not really.</p>
<p>Know what else isn't fair? My state uni. is LSU. Other states have incredible systems like the UC's. If I want to go to UNC or GA Tech, I have to pay ridiculously expensive oos costs (and have much higher stats than the average in state applicant). And then of course, the cost of privates is no walk in the park either. I don't qualify for need based aid- so merit is the way I have to go.</p>
<p>But my 'wise' age of almost 18 years has taught me that life isn't fair. National Merit cannot possible accomodate every little situation- it will always be unfair to some. You just have to get over it.</p>
<p>the NMSC takes into account the income level of each state as well as previous results on the PSAT's to dictate the scoring level needed to be achieved if you are to be deemed a NMS. I only pointed out this fact.I am not conflicted, merely pointing out the unfairness of calling it a National Standard test.</p>
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the NMSC takes into account the income level of each state as well as previous results on the PSAT's to dictate the scoring level needed to be achieved if you are to be deemed a NMS.
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<p>Huh? Please post data sources to support your assertions.</p>
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To ensure that academically able young people from all parts of the United States are included in this talent pool, Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis. They are the highest scoring entrants in each state.
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<p>Nothing about income level of each state. I have not heard that one before, either.</p>
<p>"I am not conflicted, merely pointing out the unfairness of calling it a National Standard test."</p>
<p>How on earth can the NAME be "unfair"? geesh!</p>
<p>As far as fairness goes, the rules are published and easily found by anyone looking for them. There is no mystery to them. They apply to everyone. Nothing unfair there.</p>
<p>As far as the appropriateness of the name goes,</p>
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<li><p>the test is administered on a national basis</p></li>
<li><p>one must "be a citizen of the United States; or be a U.S. lawful permanent resident (or have applied for permanent residence, the application for which has not been denied) and intend to become a U.S. citizen at the earliest opportunity allowed by law." to be eligible</p></li>
<li><p>there is a single national cutoff for commended scholars
(colleges are certainly aware of this and that the SF cutoffs vary by state)</p></li>
<li><p>one may (it is acceptable within the rules), if NMSF recognition is of sufficient enough importance, relocate from a high cutoff state to the lowest cutoff state and to maximize one's chances for such recognition </p></li>
</ul>
<p>"National" seems an appropriate appellation </p>
<p>As how the levels are set, I believe you are in error:</p>
<p>"The minimum PSAT score required for students to be named National Merit Scholar semifinalists is determined on a state representational basis, said Gloria Ladendorf, NMSC assistant director of public information.</p>
<p>She said the number of winners is chosen in proportion to the state's graduating seniors compared to the national number."</p>
<p>From the NMSC site - "To ensure that academically able young people from all parts of the United States are included in this talent pool, Semifinalists are designated on a state representational basis. They are the highest scoring entrants in each state. "</p>
<p>"How on earth can the NAME be "unfair"? geesh!"</p>
<p>The only two that come to mind are "mlb world series" and "nfl world champions.." :) they're a little loose with the language.... I mean when we have austrailia, england and south africa and so on.. compete then we have a "world champion".</p>
<p>By the way, the competition for American kids who are at International Schools is very tough. The year my son took it, he would have qualified as a finalist in all but 2 or 3 states.</p>
<p>Out State's cut off score for NMSF for the past 5 years has been in the range of 212-216, which is in the national mid range. My D is a NMSF. She qualified with a score of 240. However, her real SAT is not that high (2330), but good enough.</p>
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I got it with a 209 . . . If I want to go to UNC or GA Tech, I have to pay ridiculously expensive oos costs (and have much higher stats than the average in state applicant). . .
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<p>Johnson181: Just to set the record straight, the cut-off for NC is usually around 216, so you wouldn't make it in NC as a NMF (or semi-finalist). UNC doesn't base its acceptances on PSAT scores-- or SAT scores-- but if they did, you should be aware that you would not be at all competitive with in-state students (based on your 209 PSAT score). Sorry.</p>