<p>Yes, there are many holes in the story Prof X tells. We don’t know how the CC structures its English education - are there support centers? What kind of pre-screening (if any) is done to homogenize the level of incoming students? Are there remedial “pre-English101” classes available for the students? (They offer these classes even at some top-20 USNR schools, believe it or not!)</p>
<p>All I know is that Prof X is a lot like many other CC instructors I’ve run across. He seems well-meaning, but struggles to find a way to be effective in a system that may or may not be functional. He is frustrated and is trying to protect his sense of self-worth by publishing this article. </p>
<p>And the poor guy at Norfolk clearly hasn’t read between the lines. And as much as his passing students may like him, he has made the choice (perhaps unknowingly) to risk his potential for tenure over his principles of academic rigor.</p>
<p>“How appealing seems the straightforwardness of their task! These are the properties of a cell membrane, kid. Memorize ’em, and be ready to spit ’em back at me. The biology teacher also enjoys the psychic ease of grading multiple-choice tests.”</p>
<p>Wow, I wouldn’t want to have taken biology classes at his college. If they are actually as described in that quote, they sound poorly-structured, poorly-taught, and boring.</p>
<p>The assumption that people who are unprepared are also unfit really bothers me. Someone can be capable but still be woefully underprepared. That’s what remedial classes are for. Is there no remedial writing at his colleges?</p>
<p>Typical of community college placement is a required written exam that is evaluated by two faculty members. They determine whether or not the prospective student has the base aptitude to benefit from which level English course. (If they can’t decide, a tie-breaking third is often brought in.) Many schools have multiple courses, some requiring little or no writing ability, that meet the needs of the various students and ultimately lead to the fully transferrable English composition credit course. Once in a course, there are typically continually available writing tutors available throughout the day and evening. Good programs meet the needs of the students where they are and provide them with the skills to move them where they want to be. One should not be quick to judge the overall intelligence of students in “developmental” programs. I know students who have started with developmental courses who later graduated from medical school.</p>
<p>All great ideas here on how the professor in the article could have improved his approach (guide students to writing center, provide pamphlets and other writing-assistance resources, give specific thesis topic suggestions, tell them to ‘write what they know,’ encourage a more nuts-and-bolts approach to expression rather than high-level literary analysis).</p>
<p>It sounds like he has a bit of the ‘blame the victim’ mentality – his students are failing so it’s clear they should not be there. If they were not, I presume he envisions his CC classes filled with skillful, widely-read writers ready to banter literary allusions with him. Someone needs to re-think where they are, and I don’t think it’s his students.</p>
<p>Well, his students are not the brightest students.. but I agree with prof X, why does everyone have to go to college. Seems silly to me. Also, I don’t think prof X explains all the details in Ms. L’s story. He could’ve tutored Ms. L one on one but did not mention it in the essay, he could’ve pointed some examples during the class outline, he could’ve done this and that. Considering I don’t know everything about his situation I won’t judge his teaching methods.</p>
<p>If it were me, I’d just passed all the students, I mean these students are all working students at a community college evening (probably remedial) class OMG, I won’t be so anal and prevent them from graduation just because they write a “comparison essay” for argumentative essay assignment. I’ll give a C- maybe if I know they’ve tried something. </p>
<p>Does it matter whether they learn some literature if they’re a nurse, trooper? lol I don’t think it make any difference.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t rush to an assessment of IQ based purely on facility with writing and literature. I know many, many people who are exceptionally successful (in various businesses), very astute at dealing with people, managing projects, etc. – yet, they are not capable writers (or readers). The fact that their previous education did not prepare them well in these areas is hardly a reflection of their ‘brightness.’ </p>
<p>I’ve also met individuals with (sometimes multiple) advanced degrees who just can’t seem to figure out the basics of dealing with people or other life skills and are thus unhappy or unsuccessful. ‘Brightness’ doesn’t have just one expression and it’s somewhat short-sighted and condescending to think that one identifier (e.g. ability to write/research) is a dispositive indicator.</p>
<p>The problem might be that while the students need remedial courses, the jobs they are trying to get are requiring them to take non-remedial courses. Actually, in this case, the college is requiring the students to take specific English classes. From their descriptions, these courses don’t sound like remedial courses. It doesn’t seem that they are intended to be remedial courses. It’s clear to us and to Professor X that the students should be taking remedial coursework before attempting English 101, but that’s not happening. From the student’s viewpoint, they might see the remedial classes as a waste of their time and money (and will their workplace even reimburse them for remedial courses?). We have, of course, no idea what the story is for the college. Maybe they don’t have any screening prior to the students enrolling in a class. Maybe they don’t offer remedial coursework. Maybe they don’t mention its availability. Maybe it’s just a profit center for them. Maybe all of the above. </p>
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<p>I think that’s the entire point of Professor X’s article. The students aren’t getting anything from these classes. It doesn’t matter if they learn some literature in order for them to do their jobs well. So why put them through this dog and pony show? Why give them a meaningless grade so they pass when it’s not going to make any difference in their work lives one way or the other? </p>
<p>I’ve taught science coursework at a CC. The course was a breadth class, directed at non-majors. It was supposed to be the equivalent, academically speaking, to a class at a four-year college, since many of the students would transfer the credit to a UC or similar school. While I could hand-hold and individually counsel the students, they still needed to be held to a standard. Giving a “C” to a student because they were taking a night course and therefore deserved some recognition for giving up their time is something that just wasn’t done. It would be the sort of thing that could come back to haunt me if my grading was audited by The Powers That Be, as well.</p>
<p>If I had a student like Professor X’s Ms. L, I’d fail her, as well. I’d suggest to her that she get additional tutoring, that she drop the course prior to the drop date based on her performance to date, that she go talk to the academic advisor at the college, that she take a library skills course…but I’d still give her an F. I don’t want social promotion for the kids in my K-12 school district. I want those kids to only advance to the next grade when they’ve actually learned something. I want the same philosophy to apply to college students of whatever age.</p>
<p>As I wrote, Ivy League students get plenty of help figuring how to write a paper in English or social sciences. It does not appear from the article that Prof. X gave Ms. L much help beyond telling her she needed to write a history paper and learn computer skills ( I got a Ph.D. in humanities before the computer age and my dissertation did not suffer from it). He also told her to get help from a librarian. He’d decided from the very first day she was going to flunk, and by golly, he flunked her. At the end, it’s not even clear that she knew what a college-level paper was like. All she learned was that she had not written one. Well, I think Prof. X did not do a proper job. He just is suffering from Ivy envy. He should know that even Chaucer or Milton specialists do take the time to show the ropes to their students. And that means doing more than saying “the library is that way.”
The person I felt most sorry for after reading this piece of whine is Ms. L.
I’ll have roquefort with mine, thanks.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree. A 100 level English comp class should always include drafts, with tons of feedback for revision. To see the paper for the first time and flunk it (when he knew she didn’t understand the assignment and just was waiting to give the F) is bad teaching. bottom line.</p>
<p>I don’t automatically give the C- students need to pass my class, but I assume from the start that most *can earn *that and more, not that they are bored, tired, incompetent, and not born for college.</p>
<p>It seems like there is room for a huge range of teaching “philosophies” that would fall somewhere between “holding the hand” of less-traditional students and Prof X’s one-size-fits-all “traditional” method of teaching; kids that excel with traditional teaching methods during grade school/high school will have little difficulty moving on to a traditional college experience - and even traditional resources to assist them in their learning will benefit them, if needed. Unfortunately we are not all clones of each other. Is it really such a novel idea to acknowledge that not everyone can or should learn in the same (“traditional”) way? Or do we really believe that anyone who has any sort of different (“nontraditional”) learning style just does not “belong” in school/college? (and I am not even talking specifically about learning disabilities)</p>
<p>As noted above, the problem is that these students should be in remedial courses. They should be evaluated before they enter the course and not allowed to take it.</p>
<p>pearlygate - I surely wouldn’t want the med student who received the C- just because he was giving up so many years of his/her life, to treat me and I am sure you wouldn’t, either. What is wrong with accepting the fact that some people have certain talents and others don’t? I am not a brain surgeon. And I would have failed a lot of those med school classes. So what? It isn’t my talent. Should I be passed just because my brain wasn’t properly stimulated to succeed in that career? No one can do everything, and going to college does NOT make one a better person. Since when has graduating from college defined the person? But just giving grades reqrds mediocrity, which, I am sorry to say, I see our society moving toward more and more. Just like the kid who won’t get the award because some teacher decides that he will get others, and someone else may not get any. Does that someone else truly deserve it? No, but to make them feel better…I don’t want a doctor who is the product of the feel-good culture, nor an architect, nor an engineer, nor an…</p>
<p>I’ll bet “Professor X” has a big frown next to his name on Rate my Professor dot com. If what he says in the article is true, he is not doing any teaching in his classroom.</p>
<p>Just for fun, I went back to the original article looking for bits and pieces where Prof. X is doing what we’d hope a Prof would do. Of course this means that I’m creating a rose-tinted view, but let’s play along for a bit (and someone can have the fun of doing the same so that Prof. X is presented in the worst possible light ). First, let’s see what we can find out about Professor X’s teaching style. What teaching is going on in his classroom? What is he doing to engage students, to alert them to the details of what they’ll need to provide in their assignments?</p>
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<p>Next, let’s consider when the class has to do research and provide appropriate citations. Does he assume that the students will know how to do this?</p>
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<p>Then there’s Ms. L. Could Prof. X spend some time with her, give her some advice?</p>
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<p>How, in the end, does Prof. X feel about Ms. L?</p>
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<p>Obviously a highly selective view, but I’ve gotta say that the guy seems like a reasonably competent professor, one who tries to inspire and help his students. At the same time, he doesn’t sound like the kind of highly gifted, empathic teachers who can coax out a level of performance far and above what the student can do on their own. But how many teachers are there like that, really? Is it reasonable to expect that an adjunct professor would be able to adress the deficits in the background of a student like Ms. L?</p>
<p>I occasionally read a professor-managed blog of griping professors, and the way they paint some of their students meshes with Professor X’s descriptions well. It’s sad but apparently true.</p>
<p>I agree that they should use placement tests to place students, and inform them before they fail a class that they aren’t ready for a certain level of class.</p>
<p>So why does Ms. L not have any computer skills? because she does not have a computer. Is a computer necessary to write a good college-level paper? Nope. so why does he insist she needs to acquire computer skills so that she could write a research paper?
I’m sorry but I am unimpressed by his teaching skills or his empathy for students who are disadvantaged. It’s easy being enthusiastic about Shakespeare or Faulkner. But as with children, “teach the ones you have, not the ones you wish you had.”</p>
<p>My kids began writing “research” papers in 3rd grade. They were told about citation style, diagrams, outlines, etc… Not all students come into college with the knowledge necessary to write a research paper. But that knowledge can be imparted together with a discussion of literature.
My own English comp class included a lecture on note-taking and another one on bibliographic issues. Along the way, we got to discuss Wallace Stevens and Shakespeare among other authors</p>
<p>Prof X didn’t seem like a 100% ineffectual teacher nor unsympathetic person, true. And yes, it seemed like he was trying (perhaps to the best of his ability, given his potentially inadequate teaching education?).</p>
<p>However, I take issue with his overall tone (throwing up his hands in frustration/disgust over his non-literary students) as well as his erroneous conclusion that certain people – such as his struggling students — should just give up on the idea of higher education.</p>
<p>In the article he raises a larger social issue (some people aren’t college material), but he’s actually crafted a well-written excuse for his teaching frustrations and failures; one which presents him in a self-congratulatory, ‘I’m too smart for the room’ fashion. Perhaps he could benefit from some (remedial) teaching assistance.</p>
<p>Ms. L was an example of a student who doesn’t have basic learning skills.</p>
<p>When Professor X gave her suggestions about what to do, she couldn’t act on them – she shut down.</p>
<p>I suppose whether Professor X missed out on some teachable moments is open to debate, but clearly these students were not in a position to do the work required by an English 101-type course.</p>
<p>So they shouldn’t have been taking the course, yet there they were, paying tuition. I believe that is really the focus of his article.</p>
<p>The Norfolk story raises a similar issue. Something is wrong when 66% of a class should fail even just based on attendance records, yet the administration wants a certain percentage to pass anyway. </p>
<p>Colleges shouldn’t be taking people’s money and passing them through; students should expect to work and earn the grades they are paying for.</p>
<p>Otherwise the diploma won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with fendrock that Ms. L shut down. I think it was quite inappropriate for Prof. X to tell Ms. L that she needed to learn computer skills in order to do a history paper. Plenty of history papers have been written without the help of JSTOR or computers. If he did not have time to hold her hand, he could have pointed her to booklets that have “Writing History” in their titles. There are plenty of these on the market.
When I was in college, I had a roommate who was a chemistry major. She had to take an Art History class and had no idea what to look for or how to write an essay about a piece of art.<br>
It’s true that Ms. L and the other students in that class were not Ivy-caliber students (though I have news for Prof. X, Ivy students get plenty of help writing papers for English or history courses). He’s just feeling sorry for himself that he’s got a job teaching at his cc and unable to discuss Edward Said with his students. Doh!
Ms.L paid good money and worked hard. I don’t think she got her money’s worth.</p>
). First, let’s see what we can find out about Professor X’s teaching style. What teaching is going on in his classroom? What is he doing to engage students, to alert them to the details of what they’ll need to provide in their assignments?</p>