Professor's take on college grades

<p>I have not seen this posted elsewhere so I thought I would provide the link. I particularly like how the author admits to succumbing to the grade pressure for her own child as well.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060201593_pf.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060201593_pf.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Great article, I just sent it to several young professors in my family.</p>

<p>A very honest essay. I particularly appreciated the comments on educational "consumerism," which has indeed been on the rise for about as long as gpas have. I've mentioned the issue a few times on CC, most recently during one of the many 'Colleges are businesses, choosing a college is like buying a car' discussions found here, and my comments fell on deaf ears.</p>

<p>I've noticed that grade inflation is mostly a phenomenon of humanities- type courses, not so much a factor in hard sciences and engineering. Why is that, I wonder?</p>

<p>Good for her, not changing the grade for the last student.</p>

<p>I was slightly annoyed to find that I had earned a B (3-4 points short out of 400 to get an A) in Psychology, but I have no reason to complain - my GPA survived.</p>

<p>There is right and wrong in science. So the grading is much less subjective. In some fields-like math- the content of courses has not changed much in many years, especially in introductory classes. So it is possible to compare grades across decades on the same material. If an answer was wrong 30 years ago, it is still wrong today, hence relief from grade inflation.</p>

<p>That said, I am struck by the focus on grades. From a faculty perspective, I find that a students GPA in college tells me nearly nothing about how they will perform in graduate school or on faculty. Grades are inherently meaningless. So I cannot work up much excitement about inflation. If I don't care what GPA someone got 20 years ago, why should I care what they got now?</p>

<p>Yes, a right and wrong, sometimes, I certainly agree with all you've said afan. Yet still, the reasons usually given for grade inflation, ranging from the draft in the Vietnam era to student resume anxiety are also present in the sciences, yet science and engineering departments have held the line amazingly well, even in the premed programs where many seem obsessed with the next round of the admissions process.</p>

<p>idad - Thank you. What an excellent article "from the trenches" of a college professor who must grapple with the grade inflation hysteria constantly. I especially liked at the end of the article that he would no longer be "Professor Softie".</p>

<p>The UCs certainly do not suffer from this grade inflation, especially not in the sciences. If you get a C- or below you must successfully repeat the course before moving on to the next sequence. They are weeding out kids left and right, my D has seen many friends repeat every course in a series and even seen people she knows- nice, normal kids even-with Fs. Reality is biting there, but how will they compete for grad school vs the inflated school kids?</p>

<p>There is less grade inflation in math and science, yes. And answers are still right or wrong. BUT even in math and science, professors curve, and it seems to me that many set the median at a B, whereas once upon a time they would have set it at a C. That fuels student panic to some degree, possibly. If C used to be average and B was good, B is now "not really good enough."</p>

<p>Some colleges have handled this by having professors note the number of As given in a class, which is printed on the transcript. Then, a B could become "must have been one of the best grades in the class" or "what a dope, only kid not to have earned an A."</p>

<p>Also, honors are restricted to a certain percentage of a graduating class at some places. This at least gives grad schools and employers a sense of how someone's performance stacked up against his/her fellow grads, and helps them interpret the gpa.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Some colleges have handled this by having professors note the number of As given in a class, which is printed on the transcript. Then, a B could become "must have been one of the best grades in the class" or "what a dope, only kid not to have earned an A."

[/quote]
Our high school handles it the same way (although I think they list the number of all grades given in a particular class), on transcripts.</p>

<p>I am interested that the prof teaches at American University. Students I know there say it is ridiculously easy to get an A and almost an effort to get anything else.</p>

<p>I don't have a moralistic view of grades. I think they're often meaningless, and I have seen how, especially in the humanities, they can be manipulated through the use of class-participation grades, etc. As long as Harvard gives out so many A's, I consider it unfair for other schools not to do the same. How can a kid from not-Harvard applying to law or med school with a B+ average compete with a Harvard student with an A?</p>

<p>P.S. Here is another interesting article on grades, also by a professor: <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2071759/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://slate.msn.com/id/2071759/&lt;/a> Too bad he's leaving Princeton, where grades have become far too important a topic lately.</p>

<p>Grades are a funny thing. In my experience as an engineering student, my grades reflected how well I did on a particular exam and not my overall knowledge. Last fall I said some pretty bad tests due to simply logic errors...enough to drop a possible A exam to a C.</p>

<p>This fall there will be some major problems because I had a prof who deliberately screwed my class on a final. I shouldn't complain. I bombed the final but still got a C in the class. But some students got D's and that prevents them from taking a certain senior year course. Without that course, their graduation will be delayed for a year. Usually this late in the game profs won't mess up plans like that. All of the students worked just as hard as everyone else but did slightly worse. Most students in the class got C's.</p>

<p>Interesting discussion. My son is taking a Calc course this summer at a local university where the exams are scaled to a B- average. Average on the first quiz was a 15/30. His freshman bio class was scaled to a C average, which brought grades down and most likely resulted in many D's , F's and C's.. Since the course is a pre med requisite (he is an engineering major) I assume it weeded out a lot of kids. I know that the average (the grade spreadsheet was posted on the TA's website), in his freshman engineering course was a C to a C+. Seems that grade inflation is more prevalent at higher ranked schools, less prevalent at state universities.</p>

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<p>Very true. With some exceptions, higher-ranked schools feel that the admissions process does the weeding out, so it's not necessary to do it in the freshman classes.</p>

<p>Aparent, that confirms our impressions of American.</p>

<p>When I was in grad school I had a three exam average lower than a fellow student's. My grades continually improved from test to test, while my fellow student's final grade was lower than the first two. I received an A my fellow student received a B. Unhappy, the student went to see the (very famous & distinguished) prof who said, "Yea, your average was higher, but I'm a sucker for improvement, and besides, he laughed at all my jokes." The B remained.</p>

<p>When my son was a junior in high school I went to a parent teacher conference and was told he had a C in AP Bio. I was okay with that and went home to tell my son. He promptly got upset and said "Let's go back up there. I have my notebook, he needs to explain this."</p>

<p>Okay. We went back and my son strode in confidently, placed his notebook on the lab table and proceeded to go through the material that had been handed back, with teacher notes no less, and asked how he could possibly have earned a C. Teacher looks at the notebook, makes statements like, "Oh, I thought you missed that assignment..." etc. So at this point I ask "How was the grade derived?" thinking that there might have been weighting issues, etc., and the guy says (and this is really a Hall of Fame answer) "That was my gut feeling." He went on to say that he had the highest percentage of his students earn 4s and 5s on the test in the state. Okay. What he didn't say was that he routinely started with 27 or so of the best and brightest at the school and ended the year with the 5 who could hang in there! Yeah, talk about self-selecting. You just get all the people who have a harder time to drop. Oh, and my son earned a 5 on the test. I guess the teacher's record is intact. Also, the quarter grade wasn't changed but he earned an A for the semester. Whatever.</p>

<p>Does GPA matter a whole lot in grad school? I mean, you get your degree and you learn what you learn, but is the GPA itself actually that important?</p>

<p>I was thrilled to read that quote by the professor that said "A B means you did well in the course." It was very reassuring.</p>

<p>It is an adjustment from HS to college. At my kids HS an A- and an A are both awarded a 4.0. but likewise a B+ and a B are 3.0. My kids tended to get a lot of A- so it worked out to their advantage. At my S's college a B+ average is a 3.3 a low GPA to get into grad school. It is a lot more difficult to get those A's. It is just a necessary part of freshman year to either step it up a whole lot to keep that high GPA or to just adjust to the difference. My S's grades were posted a few weeks after school closed so they can't even find out their last paper or finals grade till next semester. Now I can see why!! Interesting article!</p>