<p>Parents, please share you thoughts! I need your help.</p>
<p>My family just visited USC and UCLA. DS likes USC's CS/Game program very much but likes UCLA as a whole school much more. We haven't done our admitted college tours yet, but I have a strong sense it will eventually come down to USC's CS/Game program vs any other school just like this.</p>
<p>SO I'd like to know if your DS/DD had any experience with choosing between programs vs schools and what it turned out at the end.
Big thanks in advance!</p>
<p>I think it depends on how intense she is about that program, and how long she’s been intense about CS/gaming. Is it her passion, recent and future, and does she intend to make it her life’s work? Or is it just what she considers a very appealing major while she gets her B.A.? </p>
<p>Our related experience was with S-2 for whom a screenwriting major was the purpose for attending college, and all arranged around that goal. He didn’t care if it was urban or rural, small LAC or huge university…what mattered to him was a great program in his passion field. Once he got to college (Chapman/Dodge College of Film), he double-majored in History so the fact that there were good (not great, but good) academicians also enriched his college work and abilities to write. The other academic coursework there was good enough, although sometimes too easy, but his central focus was always his program. I noticed at graduation, when they separated the graduations by program, he was sad to not say good bye also to his academic professors, so it did mean something to him. </p>
<p>Is your D a burning/passionate/dedicated/future careerist type gamer or is that Game/CS just the best possible major she’s heard of so far, and it would make college delightful? If she’s mild about the major, that might point to taking UCLA; if she’s a complete shark on gaming then nothing less than the best available program she knows (USC) will satisfy.</p>
<p>Also if she’s hoping for an easy, free time with neighborhood walking and doesn’t want to ever furrow her brow about street safety, that points to UCLA not USC. She can adjust to USC but late at night, I’m told, she needs to walk in the company of others not alone if she leaves the campus area. I don’t hear that about UCLA. How important is all that to her?</p>
<p>ETA: You might weigh that fact that she didn’t create the college list based primarily on CS/Gaming majors. Perhaps that’s indication that it is not such a driving force in her life that it should rule her choice today.</p>
<p>@paying3tuitions, thanks a lot. You offered many good point of views here. </p>
<p>My son (not daughter :)) is passionate about making games. He creates some kinds of music games (a very specific genre) for a couple of years now. It looks like he really wants to became a indie game developer in the future.
On the other hand, since he has many interests and is multi-talented (in music composition and highly intelligent in Math/Physics), there is still slight possibility that he may change his mind all at a sudden in the future.
If that happens, then a school as a whole that he likes better will probably be a better choice I guess.
So, it’s a hard decision. I will share your post with him and let him weight all the facts and things for consideration.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t a regular CS degree with specific in-major electives (e.g. graphics, artificial intelligence) and out-of-major electives (e.g. art, physics (mechanics), various social sciences) be more flexible in future job and career prospects? Gaming is rather small part of the overall set of CS jobs that a specialized game design degree may be rather limiting – on the other hand, game companies hire regular CS degree holders all the time.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that LOTS of the boys planning to go into CS plan to or think they want to go into gaming. This is usually because they like playing video games and that’s what they’ve been exposed to and know about. However, once they get into CS they’ll realize there’s a whole world of opportunities out there. They’ll also realize that learning CS isn’t the equivalent of playing a cool video game. </p>
<p>They end up realizing that CS is a lot of hard work, which is fine, and for those who make it through the major without switching out (probably around 65-70% will likely stick with the major) and they also realize there’s a lot of opportunities out there for CS grads. By the time they graduate they may be aware of, for example, software development for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which is cool, development for cars, for the space industry, the defense industry, many commercial industries (ex of big names - IBM, Google, Microsoft, Apple, thousands of others), etc. or they might even go into a field where they’re not doing software development - consulting, analytical fields, etc.</p>
<p>Of course they might also end up in gaming when they’re done. One doesn’t need a degree with the name ‘game program’ in to get a job in that field. Usually a CS degree from a U with a highly respected program should be adequate. Both UCLA and USC have highly respected programs.</p>
<p>Hopefully some posters whose kids got a gaming variant of the CS can chime in.</p>
<p>Edit - cross-posted with ‘UCBAlumnus’ but it looks like we were on the same track.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus and GladGradDad, my son is also admitted into Berkeley’s L&S, but he is not very interested in going Berkeley for various reasons. Still, he agrees to attend admitted student event later this month. He is also going to attend Brown’s (which is far far away from home) admitted students days next week, so we will see what happens.</p>
<p>Your comments make a lot of senses, I will show my son your posts later, thank you very much!</p>
CS (Games) is a rigorous CompSci Engineering degree with EE. It is not easier or more fun than Comp Sci, although some seem to think so because the word “game” is in the title. However, it may certainly be more rewarding for people who are aiming for the very lucrative interactive entertainment industry. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Most top employers looking to hire engineers for game companies (Microsoft Games, Activision, EA, Riot Games, Sony Interactive, etc) are, in fact, now recruiting heavily from schools like USC, and others who have specialized programs. For the past 3 years, USC has been ranked the #1 program in the country, above CMU and MIT for example. Students who are smart enough to get through a very intense engineering program graduate with a solid grounding in computer science and a cross-disciplinary background in game development. For those unfamiliar with the program, here are some details: <a href=“http://www.cs.usc.edu/brochures/ugcsgm.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cs.usc.edu/brochures/ugcsgm.pdf</a></p></li>
<li><p>Some kids think game design is playing games. It is, actually, more about the creation of media that sells in the billions of dollars. </p></li>
<li><p>Attending a school’s specialized program, especially one this highly regarded, will bring enormous opportunities. Next semester, USC is offering a level design class taught by someone from Disney Imagineering. Last year, a class was taught by a current EVP from Microsoft Games. The chance to meet and network with this level of talent/execs in this field is priceless to the student who wants a serious career and a head start to get it. USC’s games majors currently receive over 250 emails per school year with job and internship opportunities. Over one hundred Games companies send reps to USC’s Interactive Media job fairs. There are not that many students in the major.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As a disclaimer: I teach (not comp sci!) at UCLA and love this university. But I also have two sons studying Interactive Media at USC in the film school and know dozens of young men and women in the CS department who are now just graduating. Among S1’s friends, not one has had less than 2 job offers already. And one currently must decide between 5. </p>
<p>Either school is a wonderful choice. But some kids know what they have a passion for from a very young age. My older son is like that. </p>
<p>It sounds like your son has real experience writing games not just playing them. So I wouldn’t dismiss the value of the specialized program. My son took a class in graphics and game design in high school and decided he liked playing with Linux better - so he did a straight CS program. He did go for the program over the school (Carnegie Mellon instead of Harvard) because he wanted the intense experience in his field. He had no regrets and is gainfully employed at Google now.</p>
<p>IMO, there are too many kids who absolutely know what it is that they want to major in - until they take the first class & see that it’s not what they thought. Or until they take a class in something else and become passionate about that. (The president of the University of Rochester knew from the age of 6 that he wanted to be a chemist. His degree is in philosophy.)</p>
<p>If there is enough at USC to hold him should he change his mind about majors, then USC is probably the reasonable choice. But if he changes his mind and will have to transfer or be miserable, that’s another story.</p>
<p>I discussed all your thoughts with my husband and son, and we feel that my son doesn’t really need a specialized game program to go into game field after graduation, if he still wants to. And a straight CS program will probably be more flexible if he choose to go to other field instead.
However, during our discussion, we also think that a highly sought-after specialized program is a good choice because my son is not an aggressive student at all, if he just follows the program’s curriculum (I have no doubt son can handle it beautifully, if he doesn’t change his mind of future career goal as a game developer); and as madbean’s inside info revealed, it will be easier for son to have a job upon graduation.
On the other hand, if son decides to pursue traditional CS degree, for example, if he goes to UCLA, he will have to make more effort to pick his electives, to find internships and goes to job fairs, which are all good training to a laid-back type student too.
What do you think?</p>
<p>I think you should let him decide. If you decide for him and he’s unhappy, or unsuccessful in finding internships, etc., who do you think he’ll blame? If he makes the choice, he’ll have an emotional investment in becoming successful. He’ll have ownership of the decision and his success or failure.</p>
<p>If he wants to go to USC, he could still either do one of these options:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Regular CS major, but with additional game electives from the courses listed in the game version of the major.</p></li>
<li><p>Game version of the CS major, but with additional regular CS electives that may be helpful in order to be better prepared for non-game as well as game CS jobs and graduate school.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>@chedva, yes, my son will have to make this decision. I’m just here to gather all your wisdom to help him make a better decision. :)</p>
<p>@Ucbalumnus, if my son goes to USC, that must be for its CS(game) program. Otherwise, he will choose a school that he likes more (we know USC is a great school, this is just his personal preference).</p>
<p>@overbrook99, good luck with your choice! It’s hard, but I believe everyone will be happy at where they choose to go.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether it’s UCLA or USC he’ll still need to actually apply and interview for internships while there and a job once he graduates - I don’t think it’ll be any more effort at one versus the other. UCLA gets a lot of on-campus recruiters from companies seeking CS grads. Doing the electives is just a matter of figuring out which ones he wants that are available and signing up for them. Even though he’s laid back he’ll likely do okay with that - almost all of them seem to manage okay and like you say, even laid back or shy HS kids usually grow somewhat in that regard during the years in college.</p>
<p>I’m imagining a first visit by your S with the academic advisor assigned to him as a freshman. In one scenario, he stays laid back and just takes the boilerplate review provided. In another, he breaks in to say, “One of my goals while I’m here is to learn how to maximize the available resources, make clever moves about course opportunities, learn to be more strategic to get the major to work for me. I was hoping I could ask you to remember that about me, challenge me, kick me when you have to. Can you help me with that? I want to become more of a shark, make a few unexpected or brave choices, not just the obvious…” That’s a silly script, but can your son imagine asking for that kind of help from an advisor? They are there to help, and he can define “help” in their first meeting, follow up with emails. I’d love for him to be remembered as the kid who wants to do things effectively but unusually, too. </p>
<p>It’s good in some ways to be laid back, as compared to high-strung, hard-to-please or anxious. But you and he could identify this as a very important way to grow while he’s in college. The ones on-scene to help him include the academic advisor, which sometimes changes to a major advisor once the major is declared. You might also ask him to converse with you longdistance when he’s considering the following semester’s course plan, and allow you in on it so you can say, “did you consider this, that or the other?” because you might notice some diagonal way to get across the same road.</p>
<p>My other S was at a small LAC, so the advising was very close-up, but I noticed he got better at listening to the advisor’s “push.” One example was that my S only wanted to take as many courses as possible in his intended major. They advised him to diversify more than that, pointing out that some of the attitudinal learnings (not technical) would come to him indirectly from other departments, not his future major. WHile he never wavered and ended up majoring as he expected to, he also saw the advisors were correct about what he’d gain from other courses he’d never have considered himself.</p>
<p>Students also learn about opportunities by asking peers and listening to what they’re doing. He’s probably already pretty good at this, but it’s another focus for learning how to make good course choices, plan for several semesters ahead, and so on. It’d be great if he could track how his new friends are doing in their courses, what they like or dislike about it, and keep a mental file on what he might do next.</p>
Otherwise, he will choose a school that he likes more (we know USC is a great school, this is just his personal preference).</p>