<p>My point is that Islam has a justifiable PR problem in the USA. I don’t think Muslims living in America have successfully distinguished themselves nor distanced themselves from radical or violent Muslim elements. One reason is their tendency to self-segregate. While this behavior has been typical of other new immigrant groups, Muslims can’t afford to continue this pattern because of the backlash from 911 and other terrorist incidents tied to Islam.</p>
<p>Therefore, founding an institution with the expressed goal of perpetuating Islamic values, but which does not have a strictly religious training purpose since it is not a seminary, is likely to come under suspicion. Furthermore, at least initially, the proposed institution will not have any typical course offerings (economics, science, etc.) with an aim toward career preparation like a regular unviversity does. The first majors offered will be Arabic language, and Islamic legal and theological studies.</p>
Hey, I’d like to believe this. I’m a liberal kind of guy. But the terrorists who attacked on 9/11 used Islamic rhetoric to justify their actions. The same is true for other terror attacks around the world. And furthermore, right or wrong, it sure looks like the broader Islamic world doesn’t see this kind of terrorism as its problem–it either defends it, or says that it has nothing to do with Islam. So it’s entirely fair to wonder what the academics at an Islamic university will be teaching about toleration, jihad, etc.</p>
<p>TheGFG notes,"Shortly after 911, I attended a multi-faith service held in the mosque I mentioned. Can you believe what passage from the Koran was read by the imam on this occasion? One which warned Muslims against friendship with non-Muslims. The fact that he either did not comprehend how inappropriate that selection was, or else cared not, convinces me it is not at all “ignorant” to fear that a Muslim university could become a breeding ground for anti-American sentiment. "</p>
<p>Response: Funny, a similar thing happened to me in Virginia several years ago. I was invited by my bridge partner to attend a service in a mosque in order to show me how peaceful and accepting Islam was. After all, my friend certainly was accepting and nice. The visiting Imam not only warned against friendship with non-muslims but advocated contributions to Hisballah ( sp) and Fatah, both of which were on the United States prohibited terrorist list. It was a very inappropriate lecture and made both me and my friend very uncomfortable.
Believe me, there was little that was either peaceful or friendly about that serman.</p>
<p>Here is DC, there was a guy who headed up a very large, well-known Islaming American group and whose purpose was to show Americans that Muslims are quite peaceful and nice and very similar to other Americans. In fact, this guy helped bring in chaplins for the armed forces and appeared on television a lot promoting Interfaith unity and Islaming American values. I’m sure that some of you may remember this story since it was broadcast on most tv channels and the story appeared in many papers.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, about two years ago, he was indicted and convicted of promoting terrorism to the shock of everyone. Here was one of the most moderate sounding muslims around , and he was indicted. I remember the local newspaper noting that he had one set of values and speeches for non- muslims and a different set of values and speeches when he thought he was among solely Muslims. </p>
<p>Maybe all these incidents are simply remote incidents… just maybe…</p>
<p>In America, nutjobs become serial killers. In Iraq, they become suicide bombers (and there isn’t a mental health support system discouraging them).</p>
<p>Yeah, and when I visited my friend’s Protestant Christian church as a small child, the pastor preached that people like me (atheists) were dangerous and not fully human.</p>
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</p>
<p>I could apply this same sarcasm to Christianity. However, it would be more reasonable to simply say that there are, in fact, many terrorists and terrorist groups motivated by extremism of various sorts.</p>
You could say this, but let’s face it: there simply aren’t very many other highly active terrorist groups with the explicit identification with religious rhetoric that the Islamic extremist groups have.</p>
<p>The Spanish Inquisition used Christianity to justify its means. That doesn’t make the Spanish Inquisition a Christian ideal. Christian missionaries have used Christianity to suppress hundreds of cultures and millions of people. That doesn’t mean that Christianity is a murdering, extremist religion, does it? (Well, some of us feel differently, but in general…).</p>
<p>Using religion as a justification for doing something wrong has been happening for thousands of years. But using religion as a justification for something doesn’t define the religion. Have you studied Islam? The extremists and the terrorists are twisting the words of the Koran and the teachings of Islam. They might be using Islam as a justification, but what they are doing is not sanctioned by Islam, just like murder isn’t sanctioned by Christianity, but Christians still murder and many of them use Christianity as their justification. Sorry. I’m not buying it.</p>
<p>I worked closely with a Muslim girl (very closely, since it was shared housing, as well as driving around together 50% of the time) and she was great. I’m sorry that some people have had negative experiences, but mine was just the opposite. She was certainly the best of my coworkers in terms of friendliness, open-mindedness, and compassion. </p>
<p>Any religion can be used to justify violence. Mexico and Northern Ireland have had terrorism problems (not to mention the occasional US terrorist blowing up an abortion clinic or killing prostitutes–a serial killer in my city killed 26 before they caught him) and they are predominately Christian. But most people, no matter what religion they belong to, just want to live their lives peacefully.</p>
<p>The only recent phenomenon tied to American Christianity I can think of which bears resemblance to anything terroristic is violence against doctors practicing abortion by radical right-to-lifers. This horrific behavior, however, was pretty universally condemned by Christian churches and organizations.</p>
<p>And when you say that the twisting of the Koran is not sanctioned by “Islam,” who are you talking about? Who speaks for Islam? And who are the “many” Christians who murder and use Christianity as their justification? I think it’s far past time for adherents of peaceful Islam to wake up and realize that you have a serious problem that is, at this point in history, unique to your own religion. It simply won’t do to point to crimes committed in the Middle Ages by Christianity.</p>
<p>“Prominent scholars plan accredited Islamic college in the U.S.”</p>
<p>This will be great. The university can recruit students from the madrassas in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and no doubt those students will make wonderful contributions to America.</p>
<p>And when the founder of Liberty University says this about the 9/11 attacks:</p>
<p>"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way – all of them who have tried to secularize America – I point the finger in their face and say “you helped this happen.”</p>
<p>Am I supposed to take this as representative typical Christian thought?</p>
<p>We forget that before 9/11, the worst domestic terrorist attack was the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma. Those responsible for those attacks were Americans, and associated with the militia movement, a movement that has ties to certain extreme elements of the Christian right.</p>
<p>Right. That was done by two guys, as opposed to an international network affiliated with several national governments, and supported by funds from all over the world. Can’t you at least see the difference in degree?</p>
<p>“We forget that before 9/11, the worst domestic terrorist attack was the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma. Those responsible for those attacks were Americans, and associated with the militia movement, a movement that has ties to certain extreme elements of the Christian right.”</p>
<p>Equating this one attack – horrible as it obviously was – with the multitude of attacks by Islamic extremists in, oh, let’s see, Kenya, Tanzania, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, London, Madrid, and New York (twice) is absurd.</p>
<p>The Army of God and Aryan Nations in the US, Russian National Unity, the Provisional IRA and the Orange Volunteers in Northern Ireland, the NLFT (India), the LRA (Uganda). Go back a couple of decades and there’s the CSA. Those are all explicitly Christian groups (and I’m only counting terrorist groups here, not hate groups). For Jews, there’s the Jewish Defense League, and Kach and Kahane Chai. And as far as individual terrorists go, look up the stats on terrorism at US abortion clinics.</p>
<p>While I can see the difference in degree, I’m unclear how this automatically has any bearing on these particular scholars, who have denounced terrorism in the name of Islam, and their planned institution. That doesn’t mean that it <em>won’t</em> have any bearing - that is a possibility, just as it is a possibility that a Christian university will become entangled with Christian extremists, or a Jewish university with Jewish extremists - but it’s not like it’s somehow automatic because these guys happen to be Muslims.</p>
<p>Almost all the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and they practice a form of Islam called Wahhabism (some even in Saudi Arabia see this as a political movement rather than a religiuos movement). There are different sects in Islam (just like Christianity) that have nothing to do with some of the violent sects. I know a lot of peaceful Moslems that are law abiding citizens. </p>
<p>I have to agree that we have to question whether this university would adhere strictly to pursuing intellectual discourse (and yes Islamic studies included) or it will just be a training ground for home grown terrorist groups.</p>
<p>I keep hearing abou the “Peacefullness of Islam.” and how an “Islamic university will not be a cause for terrorist activities.” Ok here are some multiple choice questions for all Muslims on this board. I studied the Koran many years ago as part of a comparative religion class. Please answer the following questions honestly without cheating:</p>
<ol>
<li>What does the Koran otherwise spelled as Quran, say about non- Muslims otherwise known as infidels?:</li>
</ol>
<p>a) Respect their religion
b) honor their beliefs with peace
c) Either Kill them or tax them, if they are people of the book , with a 10% poll tax?</p>
<p>Answer (C) and the prefered way is to kill them. Don’t believe me?</p>
<ol>
<li>How are missionaries treated in Islamic countries:
a). With Respect
b) Left Alone to do as they please
c: Prohibited from converting Muslims and, if so, killing them</li>
</ol>
<p>Answer: (C)</p>
<ol>
<li>My favorite: Once someone converts to Islam but change their mind and switch to another religion, how are they treated under the Koran?</li>
</ol>
<p>a) Respect their wishes
b) Exile them from the country
c: Kill them</p>
<p>Answer Kill them</p>
<p>Hmm, where is the peacefullness of Islam? I just can’t imagine what an Islamic univeristy that focuses on theology would be teaching.</p>
<p>If I misinterpreted some passengers from the Koran, I appologize. Please feel free to clarify what I have researched and stated.</p>
According to the article, they denounced the 9/11 attacks, but previously made anti-American statements.</p>
<p>From a pre-2001 speech by Hamza Yusuf: “I am a citizen of this country not by choice but by birth. I reside in this country not by choice but by conviction in attempting to spread the message of Islam in this country. I became Muslim in part because I did not believe in the false gods of this society whether we call them Jesus or democracy or the Bill of Rights or any other element of this society that is held sacrosanct by the ill-informed peoples that make up this charade of a society. . . . [T]here should be no voting or debate . . . [W]e have no room for ayes or nays.”</p>