Prominent scholars plan accredited Islamic college in the U.S.

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m sorry but this post gets to me. Islam has great respect for other faiths except that its theology requires literal rule by Islam and the imposition of sharia and then other faiths are given respect as long as they adhere to their status as dhimmi. This theology finds many expressions in a world of hundreds of millions of Muslims, including commitment to peaceful co-existence and respect, but it directly enables the violent jihad we see today. This is expressly not the theology of Christianity or of Judaism or of any other religion in existence. Period. You can put a happy face on it but hundreds of millions of Muslims believe this. Individual Muslims may not believe this, but the point is that the religion explicitly conveys this message and vast segments of the Islamic world believe it. </p>

<p>I can give many examples, but dhimmi status is explicitly 2nd or 3rd class with many very real restrictions on rights. These vary according to the orthodoxy of the country and the extent to which people adhere to ancient traditions - which are not expressly the same thing. A simple example is that in Saudi Arabia - which is not a backwards country, merely an orthodox one - even private practice of other religions is against the law. You can’t bring in a Christian Bible. I wouldn’t recommend wearing a cross in public. In most Islamic countries, conversion from Islam is punishable by death. If you become a citizen and have a son, that boy is considered Muslim even if you are not.</p>

<p>There are Christian nations, meaning nations where a Christian sect is the official religion - look at the flags for remnants of the hold of the faith. Not a single one anywhere in the world treats other religions like this. Not one. (Same with the only Jewish run nation.) </p>

<p>That said, only idiots think every Muslim is a terrorist. And only idiots think a Muslim school will breed terrorists. (I say that as my Jewish daughter is baking with her Muslim best friend about 10 feet from me.)</p>

<p>And, btw, the main reason Iranians demonstrated after 9/11 has to do with the aims of Al-Qaeda and their Sunni radicalism. Look at Iraq: the massive death tolls have to a large extent been from Sunni attacks on Shia, with a large portion of those driven by Sunni Al-Qaeda operatives from outside Iraq. Remember Al-Zarqawi of Al-Qaeda in Iraq? He was Jordanian. These men were so ruthless that Sunni clan leaders turned on them. One of Al-Qaeda’s goals is to establish a new Caliphate, meaning they want to bring the Islamic world under a single political umbrella - as it was after Muhammed’s death - and then they would extend that to the rest of the world. The Iranians are Shia. They oppose a Caliphate with all their being. They do not support Al-Qaeda’s goals and, frankly, if you read the utterly disgusting filth said by Sunni radicals, including Al-Qaeda, about the Shia, you would understand the deep, deep enmity. Despite talks of Muslim brotherhood - which come from the ancient ideas of Caliphate and the House of Islam - I think the Iranians might prefer the Israelis to Al-Qaeda. And that’s saying something.</p>

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<p>As someone with, as they say, no dog in this fight I have to say that watching people whose relgion was behind the crusades act so indignant towards Islam is, well, odd.</p>

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<p>Slightly off-topic, but when I hit the 5th or 6th page of this thread, the ad on the left changed to “Meet Christian Singles in Your City”. Young lady in the ad doesn’t have a Singles problem, since she’s proudly displaying a Pair.</p>

<p>Back to your regular programming…</p>

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<p>Right off the top of my head, in the final plague, the killing of the firstborns, when every firstborn Egyptian is killed (plus the firstborn animals), which I think sums up the Old Testament attitude towards non-Jews pretty succinctly . . . That a Jewish human being is more valuable than a non-Jewish human being. That it’s okay to kill random people (including some who are actual, literal babies) because they just don’t matter. </p>

<p>But also, in Numbers: “When Israel[ites] thus submitted to the rites of Baal the Lord’s anger flared up against them and he said to Moses, ‘Gather all the leaders of the people, and hold a public execution of the guilty ones before the Lord, that his blazing wrath may turn away from Israel.’” They weren’t even converting, they just took part in a “pagan” ceremony. To the gallows with them! But wait, it gets better. While this was going on an Israelite brought “a Midianite woman in full view of Moses and the whole Israelite community.” (Uh oh, a foreigner. IN PLAIN SIGHT.) "When Phinehas [the son of the priest] saw this, he left the assembly and, taking a lance in his hand, pierced the pair of them. Thus the slaughter of the Israelites was checked, but only after twenty-four thousand had died." Then you get into the book of Joshua and he goes on a bloody rampage, wiping out kingdom after kingdom:</p>

<p>“Joshua conquered the entire country; the mountain regions, the Negeb, the foothillls, and the mountain slopes, with all their kings. He left no survivors, but fulfilled the doom on all who lived there, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded.”</p>

<p>“At that time Joshua, turning back, captured Hazor and slew its king with the sword . . . He also fulfilled doom by putting every person there to the sword, till none was left alive. . . . The Israelites took all the spoil and livestock of these cities as their booty; but the people they put to the sword, until they had exterminated the last of them, leaving none alive. As the Lord had commanded his servant Moses, so Moses commanded Joshua, and Joshua acted accordingly.” </p>

<p>The Koran certainly has passages premoting intolerance of other religions and general bloodshed . . . Well, it’s to be expected because a lot of it is exactly the same story as the Old Testament. And that kind of attitude was common back then–very tribal, very “look after your own, screw the rest of the world.” But it’s more tempered than the Old Testament and also offers some instances of support: </p>

<p>“Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”</p>

<p>“Then will Allah say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.’””</p>

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<p>“OH? Pizzagirl, I think you are relying on hearsay or rumors.
Where exactly in the Torah does it say kill anyone that isn’t Jewish today and kill anyone that doesn’t convert or kill anyone who stops being Jewish?”</p>

<p>Uh, I don’t think so. Traditional halacha is quite discriminatory towards non-Jews.
There are Talmudic / rabbinic debates over such topics as whether to return lost property to a non-Jew, whether there should be different legal penalties for harm committed to a Jew’s property vs a non-Jew’s property, and even whether it would be acceptable to desecrate the Sabbath to save the life of a non-Jew (e.g., someone drowning or in a burning building). </p>

<p>Fundamentalist readings of most texts – whether Christianity, Judaism or Islam – are pretty horrific, but it’s nonsense to hold them up and say “See? That’s how they believe today.” Because the majority don’t.</p>

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<p>Did anyone ever notice that there are no Jews in the Torah? Just Israelites. The very idea of Jews, as a people not tied to the conquering of the land (“Kill every man, woman, and child among them, for the land is thine”), but as a people now living among the nations, and especially as a people without political power, is a much later concept, beginning some 500 years later, and not codified in the Talmud until about 1,200 years later. </p>

<p>Of course, there was the interim period of the Macabees, the Taliban of its time, in which a fundamentalist sect killed thousands of their own kind, until after the last Hasmonean king in a fit began boiling other Jews in oil (literally), the remaining Jews begged the Romans to take over control of Judaea, resulting in the very forward thinking reign of Herod the Elder.</p>

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<p>Yes, and the Maccabees are what are celebrated at Hanukah! Ironic, no? The story of Hanukah is really the story of “they tried to assimilate us and we kicked their butts, now let’s eat.”</p>

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<p>^^hey, the Maccabees must have kicked but if Mel Gibson wanted to make a movie about them…</p>