I have been lurking a long time as I have been almost afraid to join in-you are a tough crowd, but also very informed, caring, and helpful in a lot of situations, so here goes.
My D is a freshman at a “top” school. She eagerly enrolled in a freshman seminar since they are touted as jewels of the freshman experience. She soon discovered that the seminar which was described as a physical science course incorporating an introduction to programming is actually a programming class utilizing scientific data.
Since the class only meets weekly it took a couple of weeks for her to realize that she was in over her head with the programming and by that point it was too late to switch to another class. She has been working 20+ hours per week on the class but just can’t get a grasp on the assignments. Two weeks ago as an assignment deadline loomed she realized that even if she stayed up all night she wasn’t going to be able to figure it out, and was going to have to take a zero. After a breakdown on the phone with me she decided to email her professor and let him know that she was struggling and would like to meet with him.
The next day she met with him and explained the difficulties she was having and shared that she had had a panic attack the night before and really needed help getting back on track. She didn’t even mention the zero she was going to receive on the assignment as she wasn’t looking for an extension. His response was, “panic attacks are common here. Just keep trying and get help from your peers.” She asked if he had any available hours that she could get help and he responded that she could come to the weekly precept(which she was already doing).
There are 2 TAs associated with the class which she has emailed and both were “too busy.” There is also an assistant professor and she emailed him last night with her preliminary work for this weeks assignment and asked if he could help her get to the next step. He replied that he was out of town but she could try going to the department building and looking around for students in the major and asking them for help! Today was precept day so he approached the primary professor again and explained that she was still really struggling and needed help getting started on the next step. His response this time was, “this is a science class-in science you have to figure things out yourself.”
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So I encouraged her to take the next step, meeting with her director of studies. The response there was pretty much the same, keep working. Since this is a seminar there is no support available in the way of tutoring, study sessions, ect. At this point she feels she needs to drop the class, take the W on her transcript and cut her losses. It is a rough spot to be in 1st semester and she feels like a failure.
As a parent I am shocked the incredible support system we were sold seems to be nonexistent and I am so frustrated. Please, any advice is appreciated.
Wow! I am also a parent of a college freshman at a “top” school. He was stunned after his first day of Calc.2–completely lost. He went to office hours that very first day and found the professor very helpful even though her accent is still difficult for him. I don’t have any advice, but I would be pissed if I were you. Someone should be helping her–it does no one any good to see her fail. Hugs!!!
If she is going to stay in the class, she needs to find a study partner or create an in-person or online work group. Is she friendly with anyone in the class?
Did he try the school’s calculus 1 final exams and review what he may not have known before starting classes? Some students with AP credit are fine starting in calculus 2 (or 3), but others may need to review parts of calculus 1 or retake calculus 1. Also, a student used to the slower pace of high school calculus AB may find the higher speed of college calculus courses to be a shock.
I feel for your poor daughter. What an unpleasant introduction to her college experience, and I too would be pissed off at the lack of support. “Get help from your peers” is usually good advice for a student who has been at a school for a while and knows people who have taken the class in prior years or are majoring in the area. And study groups are a common way students get through tough new material -teaching each other as they go. But for a freshman seminar, this isn’t a reasonable expectation and there ought to have been more support, especially from the TAs.
If it were my kiddo, I tell her to drop the class and to not be too hard on herself (but I don’t know the implications of a W on her transcript, so this would need to be checked first). You don’t want the rest of her classes to suffer because she’s drowning in this one.
The lesson to be learned here is to pay close attention to ‘drop dates’ - the last date on which you can drop a class without penalty and to ‘over enroll’ intentionally, with the goal of auditioning several classes before you settle on your final schedule. A class that sounds great on paper, may not be so great once you see the full syllabus and the expectations get laid out. And always check the rating of the professor in advance where possible so you can see how responsive he/she is reported to be. (It’s called ratemyprofessor .com)
Thanks so much!! After that first day, he is doing fine–telling me is “above” the median grade on both quizzes and homework. His high school AP class apparently didn’t hit on everything, but he is doing fine now that it was explained to him. I also suggested dropping down to Calc 1. His response? “Mom, I am in the right class!”
She probably needs to drop the class and take a W. Short term, she will feel bad, then relieved. Long term, it will not affect her life. If she does not withdraw, and she doesn't have an effective strategy to catch up to the class, she will be more, and more, and more miserable, and that could have a long term effect.
It's not reasonable to ask professors for generalized help with your homework. It's somewhat more reasonable to ask TAs, but they are not tutors. It's not a failure of support and advice that no one is being paid to help with homework on an intensive basis for someone who fundamentally does not get central concepts of the course.
The classic way of dealing with this issue is making your eyes really, really big, getting them a little watery, and begging some classmates who seem to know what they are doing to help you. Second choice is, yes, finding some upperclassman majors and asking them. Some won't be glad to help, but some will. Departmental advisors and RAs may be helpful in identifying some potential targets. Offering money, booze, or you-know-what as compensation is not unheard of.
That, in fact, is a big part of how students deal with academic problems at “top” schools.
Lessons to draw from this: Pay really careful attention to course descriptions and syllabi. Pay careful attention to the first class and first assignment. Make a change faster if you are in trouble. Start building your support network on Day 1. Don't concentrate in Computer Science.
Even if there are no GPA implications of a W, she will be some credits “behind” the usual pace of credit earning, so she may have to take an overload schedule in a later semester to “catch up” to be on track for 8-semester graduation if she does not have some credit (from AP or college courses taken while in high school) to act as a buffer in this respect.
JHS, it might not be reasonable to expect TAs to tutor a student privately who is significantly behind in a class - but it is their responsibility in a freshman seminar to identify when a student is struggling and to talk with them about whether this class is the right one for them to be in and/or what kind of resources are available to support them. It’s not just about answering technical questions and grading papers. Maybe in an upper level class it is - but freshman seminars are generally supposed to help students get acclimated to college life, not be a ‘being thrown into the deep end’ experience. And this isn’t a large state U we’re talking about where there are hundreds of students in the 101 class and no one expects the TAs to know anyone’s name - it’s a private university that touts it’s quality academic advising and support. I think OP is justified in feeling that her daughter has been let down.
Does she have a Faculty Advisor? Sometimes they can be very helpful in these situations.
I would probably drop/withdraw. I would rather see a student get off to a good start in college, than struggle in the wrong class. She should not feel discouraged. Just be sure to work hard in the other classes.
In the future, it is important to be aware of the deadline to Drop, and assess how you are doing in each class shortly before that date.
@JHS While I appreciate your bluntness, please consider that this isn’t a 200 person STEM weeder course, it is a freshman seminar of 15 students with two professors and two TAs and it is supposed to be a “touchy feely, welcome to our wonderful world of academia” type of experience.
Also, she didn’t ask any one for help on “intensive basis.” How would you actually define academic support? Because I apparently I don’t understand. When a student politely approaches a professor and expresses that she is struggling and needs direction and advice (without a request for an extension or mention of grades) is that really overstepping and presumptuous on her part?
For those that mentioned just going ahead and dropping the class, that might be what she has to do in the end but it certainly is a demoralizing way to start out. Plus it is kind of complicated and she can’t drop for a couple of more weeks or there will be a stiff financial penalty so she has to continue to try to keep up with the work so that she doesn’t end up with a WF.
Have her meet with her academic advisor ASAP and discuss how best to drop this class (dropping classes have many rules which differ from school to school)- many kids end up with W’s on their transcript - it is not the end of the world. Drop this class and have her spend time on her other classes and do well in them and she will regain her confidence!
The deadline to drop without a W was 2 weeks into the semester and she had only attended 2 classes at that point. It was the next week that things started to go down hill. She can take a W up through week 9, and she is going to stick it out up through the last day and hope for a miracle. I didn’t even think about the academic advisor-I kind of got the impression that their only role is to approve the course schedule each semester, not really to “advise.” I will suggest it to her though, but after the results she has had so far I doubt I can convince her to speak with anyone else.
Before dropping, I would suggest contacting the TAs one more time with a request to meet. It is their job to be helpful.
I would also suggest not mentioning panic attacks.
If she is spending so much time on this class to the detriment of others, she should consider dropping it.
Ds1 had a similar experience his first semester after having been placed in Calc 3 thanks to a 5 on the AP BC test in junior year. That had been a whole year without calculus, and he told the adviser when he was put in there that he didn’t think he was prepared to go straight into Calc 3. I’m sure the advisers get a lot of that … kids trying to get in classes beneath their ability level so they can get a higher grade. That was not the case with ds1. He was at a trimester school, so they went quickly. I kept encouraging him to drop, but he really wanted it to work. He would be done with his math requirement if he passed and didn’t want to leave that 5 on the table. Finally, he listened to me and dropped. There were other, less calculus-intensive ways to get that math credit.
It’s first semester freshman year. This won’t be any kind of Earth-shattering crisis if she drops. Ds still graduated with Latin honors and is gainfully employed.
ETA: I cross-posted with your edit, OP. I get that it feels like a failure, but the class isn’t what she thought it was. No biggie. It doesn’t have to be demoralizing if you help her see that it’s really not that big a deal. No one will hold this against her in her first semester when so much learning and transitioning is going on.
What’s the next stop up the chain of command in terms of Academic Counseling? The student should certainly make sure they have exhausted all the possibilities. That being said, ‘W’ exists for a reason.
For what it is worth, first semester frosh year can be the riskiest academically, since the student is both transitioning to college (where much more self-reliance is necessary than in high school) and may be less familiar with the courses, workload, and administrative procedures of the specific college. Placement into courses that build on previous high school work can also pose a risk in that one cannot always be sure ahead of time how well one’s own high school work prepared him/her for any given college course at any given college.
