<p>"Point is, life's not fair and we just need to deal."</p>
<p>Their are numerous UF students/alumni who could of gotten into Top-25 schools and yet they chose this flagship for financial reasons. If not for tuition costs, then for the cheap housing that Gainesville can provide.</p>
<p>It's "there" not "their."</p>
<p>SSobick</p>
<p>You are absolutely right. I think our true decision will be choosing a school like UF or a lesser school with no out of pocket expenses. It always seems to come down to money, doesn't it.</p>
<p>factors for UC - San Diego
Another public competitor to UF:</p>
<p>From the Common App.</p>
<p>ADMISSION FACTORS;
Weighted as: Very Important, Important, Considered, Not Considered.</p>
<p>A. ACADEMIC FACTORS:
1- Curriculum Rigor / Very Important
2- Class Rank / Important
3- Test Scores / Very Important
4- Application Essay / Important</p>
<p>B. NON-ACADEMIC FACTORS:
1- Extracurricular Activities / Important
2- Talent & Ability / Important
3- Character & Personal Qualities / Important
4- Alumni/ae Relation / Considered
5- Geographical Residence / Considered
6- Volunteer Work / Important
7- Work Experience / Considered</p>
<p>Biggest differrence appears to be in the tests scores, negating the alumni connections and emphasizing volunteer work.</p>
<p>Seems there is more than one way to skin this "holistic" cat.</p>
<p>Anyone care to take a guess as to how UF does it?</p>
<p>From the University of California system website.</p>
<p>Samohi</a> English Department - UC Application Essay</p>
<p>University of California Essay Prompts </p>
<p>A. The University seeks to enroll on each of its campuses an entering class that is academically superior and that embodies a wide range of talents, experiences, achievements, and points of view. Describe the qualities and accomplishments you would bring to the undergraduate student body at the University of California.</p>
<p>B. Intellectual vitality is an important value of university life. Describe one of your intellectual achievements--such as a paper, project, production, or performance. Explain not only the achievement, but what you gained from it, as well.</p>
<p>C. It is important for the University to understand the context of each applicant's accomplishments, both academic and nonacademic. Describe any unusual circumstances or challenges you have faced and the ways you have responded.</p>
<p>I could clearly see where the last sentence of prompt "C" could easily be used to spell out your race.
Easy solution: Get rid of the last sentence. Problem solved.</p>
<p>On second thought, a "poor white' student could use this to their advantage also.</p>
<p>For prompt "C" above:</p>
<p>Tips for Prompt C</p>
<p>Here UC wants to know if you've had tougher obstacles to overcome than the average student, so that what you've accomplished has been in spite of these obstacles, and is therefore more impressive. This prompt is especially appropriate for ethnic/racial minorities; immigrants; people with physical, emotional, or learning handicaps; and people with especially difficult financial or family problems. If you don't fall into one of those categories, steer clear of this question.</p>
<p>(Don't write about the challenge of dealing with your kitten's death or the remodeling of your home.)</p>
<p>"Easy solution: Get rid of the last sentence. Problem solved."</p>
<p>Ha ha, fat chance - it's never going to happen in a state like California. I don't care if poor white people can use it either. What matters is that the equal protection clause must be fair to all. The crux of the matter is that applicants with 1400's on the SAT & high GPA's are being dinged to make room for the children of pig farmers, and students who need remediation. This is what is wrong with Holistic Admission, it shafts the best & brightest applicants. </p>
<p>I also take issue with Legacy Admission. That kind of cronyism must be reduced as well.</p>
<p>^^^ Pig farmers? in Florida? Link Please.</p>
<p>Also you keep mentioning SAT scores with a 1400 being dinged. Link Please.</p>
<p>Is it possible for someone with a 1400 to be rejected by UF. Yes absolutely.
How?, you may ask.</p>
<p>Probably your classic case would be you male applicant with a high SAT but low GPA.</p>
<p>The hard USNWR numbers play out this way:
SAT- 7.5% of total score
Top 10% student- 6% of total score
Graduation rate- 16% of total score (FACT: females graduate at higher proportions than males)</p>
<p>By choosing the male with the 1400 with low GPA you may gain the 7.5% for the high SAT score yet LOSE out on the other 22% available for a higher USNWR ranking.</p>
<p>Other things hurting this type of applicant.
Admission rate for females 55%
Admission rate for males 45% (Clearly UF is onto the graduation numbers)</p>
<p>Lastly, if that person waited until the last possible moment to submit their application it could end up hurting their application.</p>
<p>I am done debating this thread. I think everyone here knows this is just the fringe-left using their political agenda to take advantage of Florida's best & brightest (how anyone with a good GPA and a 1400+ on the SAT got dinged is beyond me). I can not understand how any rational American can not see a problem with a 126 point disparity between races for the entering FTIC Freshmen. When Tomlawsky showed me his evidence I was absolutely shocked to find this bit of information out. I am all for progress, but we should never violate the 14th amendment to do so.</p>
<p>If I was in that Professor's place I would of packed my stuff up and quit as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The University of Michigan used a 150-point scale to rank applicants, with 100 points needed to guarantee admission. The University gave "underrepresented" ethnic groups, including African-Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans, an automatic 20-point bonus on this scale, while a perfect SAT score was worth only 12 points.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow, that is crazy!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ha ha, fat chance - it's never going to happen in a state like California. I don't care if poor white people can use it either. What matters is that the equal protection clause must be fair to all. The crux of the matter is that applicants with 1400's on the SAT & high GPA's are being dinged to make room for the children of pig farmers, and students who need remediation. This is what is wrong with Holistic Admission, it shafts the best & brightest applicants.</p>
<p>I also take issue with Legacy Admission. That kind of cronyism must be reduced as well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not so sure I agree 100% with you with putting less importance into the holistic process. Are you suggesting that UF get a list of all applicants, sort by GPA/SAT/ACT, then give out acceptance letters to the top 5000?</p>
<p>What do you think is the best indicator of a successful choice of an incoming class? 4 and 6 year graduation rates? Drop out rates? If so, do statistics show that as the average SAT/ACT/GPA scores rise that graduation rates rise as well?</p>
<p>"Are you suggesting that UF get a list of all applicants, sort by GPA/SAT/ACT, then give out acceptance letters to the top 5000?"</p>
<p>No I am no suggesting that at all (that sounds far too extreme in my opinion, and clearly would in and of itself be a violation of the equal protection clause). I personally would like to get well rounded students that are highly intelligent. I am also of the opinion that because our state is growing, it is incumbent upon the Admissions Department to have a statistally better class each and every year. I was hearing alot of stories about students who would of been in our top 75% being dinged to make room for farm children and substandard students and it got me very upset.</p>
<p>Apart from that, I request that the University of Florida must follow the University of Virginia in how we admit students into our entering FTIC classes (with less emphasis on Legacy admissions of course). In essence: University of Michigan has become too Conservative, UCLA has become too Liberal, and UVA seems just about right.</p>
<p>Anyone know what happened to Jeb Bush's 5% rule?</p>
<p>^ UF does not follow that agreement anymore. The other universities do, but honestly as far as I know it was never written into the statutes.</p>
<p>I think it's far too draconian in nature. It's the single reason why the University of Texas-Austin is not maximizing it's potential for the quality of their incoming classes.</p>
<p>"I can not understand how any rational American can not see a problem with a 126 point disparity between races"</p>
<p>I do believe that is an issue but has anyone looked into scores for legacy admissions ? You will see the same discrepancy there. It is easy for people to complain for minorities getting priority treatment, but legacy does get priority treatment as well, often not so deserved.
Look at George Bush at Yale and McCain at the naval academy. They more than likely would not have been admitted on their academic stats.</p>
<p>You cannot compare schools like Yale and the Naval Academy; you must compare apples to apples. UF is a public school. Yale can choose to admit whomever they would like and the naval academy can discriminate on disabilities. They adhere to all sorts of medical,physical and mental, testing for their midshipman candidates.</p>
<p>UF and all Florida state schools should be held to the same admission policies and standards across the board.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UF and all Florida state schools should be held to the same admission policies and standards across the board.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Helpful Mom, which standards are you referring to?</p>
<p>"I do believe that is an issue but has anyone looked into scores for legacy admissions ? You will see the same discrepancy there."</p>
<p>Look at my previous posts on this thread I have been hammering on Legacy Admissions as well. Also I rescently read a national report that on average a legacy admit was likely to only be 60 total points below their entering class. This includes all National Universities, Liberal Arts Colleges, etc.</p>
<p>So you can see this isn't nearly as bad as the 126 points difference for race under UF's last entering class. It's over 60 points higher than the national Legacy Admissions difference.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So you can see this isn't nearly as bad as the 126 points difference for race under UF's last entering class. It's over 60 points higher than the national Legacy Admissions difference.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>SSobick, how much of the 126 point difference is attributed to student-athletes? I believe that most of that difference has to do with sports.</p>
<p>By admission standards, I mean that all of the schools should use the same methodology in their admission process; ie, specifice perentage for scores, gpa, extra currics, essay, etc. If these are state funded institutions they should be held to some sort of regulation. Of course, some schools will be harder to get into (based on their tier) but at least the playing fields will be level.</p>