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TALLAHASSEE, FL (WTXL) -- The city of Tallahassee could soon be home to a second college of engineering. The Florida A&M University Board of Trustees says that this move is unfair and would cost too much money.
Currently the college of engineering is a collaboration of between FAMU and Florida Sate University. According to the board of trustees, the FAMU-FSU college of engineering has received high praise for addressing the underrepresented student populations in engineering disciplines.
Tuesday, Senator John Thrasher filed an amendment to create the second college moving away from the collaboration.
"Proposing such an abrupt change without any discussion of the aforementioned factors with all parties involved is alarming and not in the best interest of our State University System or the citizens of Florida,"said the trustees in a statement.
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<p>This article is lacking on some of the details that they reported on the news, but basically FAMU would apparently keep the current College of Engineering building, and FSU would apparently build a second CoE somewhere else. </p>
<p>My opinions are split on this. While it appears that the current CoE has been held back by the partnership due to FAMU's lower standards and lower prestige, I'm not sure that splitting the college is necessarily a good idea. I think FAMU's side has a point in that I'm not sure they would be able to sustain a second CoE, especially if they were the ones to get "stuck" with the current facilities while FSU got brand new, state-of-the-art stuff. </p>
<p>I know there's been a push before to split up the Engineering college over the past few years so I thought that it was interesting to see a state Senator making a push now.</p>
<p>“According to the Board of Governors, FAMU had 369 engineering students in undergraduate and graduate programs in 2013 and FSU had 2,142.”</p>
<p>This isn’t going to end well. FAMU will not be able to sustain a program with less than 400 students, and state funding will be cut, as it’s based on student headcount (as will research funding). The FAMU COE will likely fold, and then the current facilities will be turned over to FSU. To FAMU, it’s the Law School, all over again….</p>
<p>To make this split work, FAMU’s engineering program has to be strengthen, to the point FAMU’s supporters feel it can be successful.</p>
<p>This was going to happen sooner or later. They might as well do it now, at a time when FAMU is relatively healthy, so it can survive the experience. </p>
<p>As Sen. Thrasher mentioned, after splitting up the schools, FAMUs students will no longer be held to FSUs higher admissions standards, making it easier to boost enrollment for their CoE. </p>
<p>The FAMU CoE will probably not be as highly-ranked as it would be with the FSU relationship, but FAMU was never interested in rankings anyway. They have always been about giving students an opportunity that they might not otherwise have. This is a noble goal, but it’s not really compatible with FSUs aspirations.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that FSU misses out on great students because of the joint program. In fact, I was talking to one of my coworkers recently, and he said that his friends who came here to study engineering had transferred to UF within a year or so because they did not like the quality of the program here.</p>
<p>Dr. Stokes, the interim president, actually sent out an email to students and faculty, mentioning this:
<p>FAMU could support a college of engineering if they reduce the number of departments. They won’t be able to offer chemical engineering or industrial engineering since even those are struggling at FSU. They could also try offering some new engineering majors that aren’t offered by FSU to get more students. Of course, FAMU hasn’t mentioned this or even probably thought about this because the university is poorly run.</p>
<p>If FAMU can’t operate an engineering school on its own, it shows how much they hurt the current college. Even though FAMU students and professors are a small number of people there, FAMU controls 50% of the decision making. FAMU shouldn’t be equal partners if they aren’t capable of functions on their own. They are admitting they bring little to the table at the joint college.</p>
<p>There are long term benefits of splitting the college for FSU, FAMU, and the state of Florida. Having a joint college is not efficient. It only adds complexity to the operations. FSU and FAMU will no longer have to try to work together and can pursue their own goals individually. FSU can focus on attracting top engineering students. FAMU can focus on attracting top minority engineers. Two engineering schools should bring more research funding to the state over time. Two engineering schools should also keep more engineering students in the state and produce more engineers.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that was sent only to engineering students? I never got said email. </p>
<p>I think FAMU has a point in that a split could be catastrophic for their engineering department, and would likely result in their having to completely drop engineering. </p>
<p>I would be more concerned that a 400 student program (I know it includes grads and undergrads) wouldn’t be able to survive more than anything. I didn’t realize that the scale of the CoE was ~ 2500 students in total- I thought it was smaller. I guess I just can’t fathom that at 400 students you wouldn’t be able to survive. There are plenty of programs at both FSU and FAMU that I know have nowhere near 400 students and are seeming to survive just fine. That might be because they are funded by “profitable” programs within their own department or what not, but it seems scary to me. I guess there’s a reason I’m not in charge, though.</p>
<p>I’m generally not in favor of any of these sharing style agreements where it seems like one college greatly benefits while another one greatly suffers. If the CoE didn’t seem to be such a hindrance to FSU’s goals I think there wouldn’t be such a strong motion for splitting it up. </p>
<p>Splitting this college is best for Florida and for Florida State. FAMU would continue to receive the same money they get today and what they do with it is up to them and should not impact Florida State in any way. Engineering students are already voting with their feet and the headcount numbers reflect this. The current system fails to meet the highest standards of academic performance and there is not enough money for feel-good engineering colleges in Florida. Especially with Florida State seeking AAU admission.</p>
<p>Florida State should have had its own engineering school from the beginning.</p>
<p>Nope, I am not an engineering student. I must have received that email because I work part time for the school. But yeah, p2n’s post is the email in question that I received. </p>
<p>Here’s my question now. Let’s assume a split happens. FAMU keeps the current CoE infrastructure (which I am not sure if that is actually going to happen. Let’s say that’s the deal to keep them “happy”).</p>
<p>Where would FSU put a new CoE? I would think that if they split from FAMU they’d rather keep the current CoE because they’d have to house 2100+ students. I know a number of engineering classes are taught on the main campus, but where would the actual college be housed? </p>
<p>I think we’re a long way off from this split, should it happen. There’s a lot of things that have to be worked through. It’s just an interesting discussion right now that is making its way through the legislature and the airwaves. </p>
<p>Thanks for posting that link. I guess it must have been sent only to employees or something because I definitely didn’t get it and neither did a few people I asked. I asked both grad and undergrad students, thinking that maybe it didn’t get sent to one group but no one got it. </p>
<p>Interesting read. Clearly, this is something that’s been brewing for a while. I wonder if Barron was devoutly against it and that now that he’s gone they can move forward? The timing is really odd on this one.</p>
<p>Before we acquired the TLCCC, we had plans to build an arena on the intramural fields east of the football stadium. So apparently we’re not opposed to building on that land and could fit a large CoE there.</p>
<p>There is also a plan to move the maintenance building in the middle of the campus to the south of campus. I believe a new student union will be going there, but maybe engineering could be put there instead.</p>
<p>I’d like to see the band practice field removed. I don’t understand why it’s needed. It seems like the band could use the football practice fields or in the stadium when the football team isn’t using it. If they really need a field, move it off campus to the southwest with the pool and indoor tennis courts.</p>
<p>The plan to relocate the Mendenhall Buildings so that a new student union could be built has been changed. They’re going to build a new student union in the same location as the current one (unless that’s changed again in the last couple months). In fact, they’re supposed to start demolishing and rebuilding Moore Auditorium next month. </p>
<p>The band practice field isn’t used solely by the band (and it serves multiple purposes). Keep in mind that several IM sports also use the field. The band practices basically every day on that field, and sometimes at the same time as the football team. They would have to change their entire schedule- something that’s quite impossible given that every person in Marching Chiefs probably has a different schedule- just to do what you said. It’s not going to happen. </p>
<p>Moving off campus isn’t going to happen either. The Chiefs have just as much of a right to be on campus as anyone. Probably more so, since many of the Chiefs live on campus, especially in Cawthon as part of the Music LLC. A large number of students would lose out on being able to participate if it was moved off-campus. </p>
<p>Even if finding space is an issue, it’d be a silly reason to keep it the school joined with FAMU. Get the school split and worry about where to put it later. This will be a major milestone for FSU if the college can be split.</p>
<p>The state legislature is working with a large surplus and it’s an election year! They plan on doing tax cuts and additional funding for Higher Education (which is very popular with the voters…funny thing that…). This year that will include significant capital spending. Sen. Thrasher took advantage of the “mood” to insert the additional spending into the senate budget. </p>
<p>Here’s the capital spending in the current Senate proposed bill:</p>
<p>Thanks for that link. I’m glad to hear that the funding for the long-rumored and yet still non-existent new EOAS department building is looking like it might actually go through this year (yeah, different topic, but I’m glad to see that saga might be coming to an end). Granted, I showed my roommate that just now and he seemed less enthusiastic (and I myself am part of that “I’ll believe it when they demolish the building currently standing where that’s supposed to go” crowd). </p>
<p>I just find the timing of this proposal odd. Yeah it’s an election year but this doesn’t seem to be something that would be a hot topic during an election year. It must just be a matter of the money actually being there to make some of these things a reality. But to me it seems like an odd set of circumstances that Barron left and then a couple days later Garnet Stokes is seemingly leading the charge to split the CoE. I know this isn’t something that is going to crop up that quickly but I find it odd. </p>
<p>I think Garnet Stokes is reacting (and doing damage control) to Sen. Thrasher putting the funding into the budget. There has been “discussions” around the split for a few years, but I don’t think Dr. Stokes had planned on dealing with it this week.</p>
<p>Do you want to hazard a guess at how much funding would be required to create a new COE (while keeping FAMU’s program whole at the current funding levels)? Some numbers to play with…</p>
<p>A new Engineering building (around 85,000-square-foot) would cost around 30 million (UF is requesting one this year, at that cost level). The current facilities use about 200,000 square foot (not including phase 3 above).The current FAMU/FSU COE has 90 faculty. Throw in some endowed faculty positions and lab/research equipment (for example, a wind tunnel for the new “aero program” would cost $500,000)…</p>
<p>Dealing with the “break-up” with FAMU is one thing, building the new COE is another…it will take years and will pull resources from other colleges. Of course, as it’s a must have to break into the top 25 public universities and gain membership in the AAU, it’s a direction FSU has to take. </p>
<p>An interesting article on AAU membership (which is one of the drivers behind FSU needing to expand it’s COE), it touches on why Universities so badly want to become members.</p>
<p>The AAU is trying to shrink, to be more of an exclusive club. That’s why otherwise decent schools like UNL and Syracuse left/got kicked out after years of being members. </p>
<p>I’m sure that some of the more powerful members would love to kick out the bottom dozen or so schools that have the lowest amounts of federal research dollars, but the UNL affair got ugly enough that they are now gun-shy.</p>
<p>It will be a while before FSU gets an invite. It will take years of catching up after being denied both an engineering school and a medical school for so many years. I think USF has us beat in research expenditures, despite FSU having considerably better metrics for most educational outcomes.</p>
<p>A well writen article by Chuck Hobbs (a lawyer and clearly a good writer), it lays out the history (from FAMU’s point of view) and raises several points that I haven’t seen mentioned in other articles on the proposed split.</p>
<p>The most sensible solution for both of the schools (and Florida taxpayers) would be to hand over the existing CoE to FSU and let FAMU students continue to take courses there, while combining the proposed funding for both schools. This would largely satisfy FSUs needs while ensuring that FAMU continues to survive. Unfortunately, this is now impossible due to the inflammatory racial rhetorical and paranoia coming from FAMU supporters and leadership. </p>
<p>Anyone, who is being honest, will admit that employers, and most highly-qualified students, regard the FAMU-FSU CoE as second-rate, and will choose UF and UCF engineering. This status quo might be acceptable to FAMU, but it’s not good enough for a supposed “preeminent” university. For a school of its national stature, FSU is embarrassingly lacking in engineering and research, and the FAMU-FSU CoE is a big part of the reason why.</p>
<p>There is a tremendous amount of long-term, pent-up frustration among FSU supporters over this issue. They are not going to accept a second-rate CoE, under FAMU control, much longer. And because dated, racial politics make the best choice impossible, we will be forced to make the uncomfortable decision of whether both FSU and FAMU get their own redundant CoEs, or whether FAMU gets closed.</p>
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