psh GPA's are so overrated

Applying to College
1

<p>Well, I'm sort of saying that because I have a pretty ridiculous GPA. But here I am still applying to some really good schools because I have a pretty good SAT score (2160), some pretty good SATII's (700ish), some mad writing skills (i can pull a topic out of my arse and make it interesting) and a convenient musical talent. </p>

<p>I'm smart, but by no means to I have the GPA to show it. There doesn't really seem to be a point to this post, but I guess I want you all to discuss how your your academic shortfallings are NOT your personal failures. Stop measuring your self-esteem by what you get on a test. I'm going to apply to some top schools and if they can't see a future leader emerging from what I got, from the work I put into what I care about, then they're missing out. And the same goes for a lot of you.</p>

2

<p>The funny thing is - only someone with a poor GPA would say that they are overrated. You claim that you are smart, and you have SAT scores to back it up. The problem with your post is that you tell people to stop measuring themselves based on what they get on a test, and yet you are claiming that you should get into a good school based on the results of a SINGLE test. In fact, high school GPA is a better indicator of success in college because not only do you have to be "smart," but you have to be willing to WORK HARD, not just take a standardized test. And you can't tell people to not take responsibility for their academic records, because it is something they HAVE to do - if you killed someone, you can't exactly blame someone else...</p>

3

<p>i have a less than killer GPA (at least compared to my test scores)</p>

<p>but I still think that it makes more sense that colleges value 4 years of hard work over one saturday morning filling in bubbles</p>

<p>yeah it sucks for people who didn't get going until junior or senior year, or smart kids who are just lazy, but that's life.</p>

<p>also, even though I say im smart, it would have been smarter of me to put more emphasis on my grades. Which is where the GPA factor kicks in.</p>

4

<p>"In fact, high school GPA is a better indicator of success in college because not only do you have to be "smart," but you have to be willing to WORK HARD, not just take a standardized test."</p>

<p>Standardized tests certainly aren't infallible, but I'm getting a bit tired of this myth. Note this fact sheet, put out by the lead organization (FairTest) opposing the College Board's testing schemes - both regression analyses it cites actually show that the combined predictive power of SAT I and SAT II scores is greater than that of class rank/gpa.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fairtest.org/facts/univtestcomparison.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org/facts/univtestcomparison.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

5

<p>well the first thing i did was admit that i have a bad GPA and that's exactly why i'm biased against GPA's. But man, have I worked hard in high school. Lunch is no lunch for me. Constantly getting help, doing work, studying. And it feels like nothing ever pays off, and its really upsetting. But the things that I did on my on, like writing, especially after taking AP English (in which I got a B btw) make me just as valuable, or maybe even more so, than the kids who did their work and never cared about anything. </p>

<p>I called around for days before I finally got myself a sweet internship in DC, I work for hours on my writing and it comes out great, I work for hours honing my music and I get somewhere with it.
What does that say about me and doesn't it make me different from the chick who sits behind me in my math class getting straight A's and having no interest in anything?</p>

6

<p>"getting straight A's and having no interest in anything?"</p>

<p>Pretty harsh generalization to make. Maybe she just doesn't know what she wants to do with the rest of her life. Can you blame her? She's only 17/18. But at least she has a lot of doors open to her.</p>

7

<p>well, it happens a lot. A lot of people on this forum put a bunch of crap into their EC section even though most of it is glorified nothingness. What I'm saying is that I never had the GPA. Perhaps its because I took too many hard courses, or maybe (and this is most likely) its because I forgot homework a few times too many. But at 17, I have focus, drive and passion. I always took the harder classes, and never got higher than B's in most of them, but hey, I'm a lot smarter now that I've taken AP English rather than honors. I seek out opportunities and care about what I do. And I'm saying that makes me as valuable as any.</p>

<p>Just like SAT's are not an indicator of college success, GPA's are not necessarily an indicator of how hard you work. There's other ways to measure that. </p>

<p>I feel like I babbled a lot just now.</p>

8

<p>Even if you feel like you may be entitled to admission to a very selective or prestigious school because you are an extremely hard, driven worker and are very passionate, the truth is that if you are not doing well in your high school classes and are struggling to keep up, it can only get worse in college. While you sound like someone I'd like to hire and would be a fantastic worker, it just doesn't sound like school works for you.</p>

<p>And to the poster who posted the link to FairTest's chart page, they in fact say that standardized tests are a worse indicator of success in college than GPA, so your link actually reinforces my point - thank you.</p>

9

<p>Only to play devil's advocate: Yes, you can convey that you worked hard and did ok in your AP courses despite having so many.</p>

<p>But what about the people who take just as many AP courses and get As? Or A+s? Can you say that there's not ONE person at your school like that who DOES have just as much, if not more, passion about the same something as you do? </p>

<p>Nobody's arguing whether or not you're a hard worker. The question is will the college take you or reject you. You have to remember, a university is a business. In real life, your boss will not give so much a damn as to how hard you work as opposed to how well you deliver. If you want to prove them wrong, that's up to you. This is a highly competitive environment; why should they take a passionate person with a low GPA rather than a passionate person with a high GPA who they know can deliver results?</p>

<p>By the way, I'm in roughly the same boat as you. My grades aren't the best, I'm top 20% in a school of 1000 though. My school is nationally renowned, our top 50 people have taken an average of 8 APs; our top 5 have 14. I myself have 12. </p>

<p>I like to think I know a lot about the college game. They care about the numbers, a lot. That's not to say they don't care about anything else, but a person can have everything else going for him short of being a recruited athlete, and his chance at Ivy admission will be a lot less than a person with all the numbers and only a few EC-type activities. </p>

<p>A lot of my friends and my friends' parents, some of whom are in our situation, call me and say "How can (Harvard / Yale / Princeton / Stanford / MIT) place so much emphasis on my sons/daughters value by some numbers?" </p>

<p>I have no idea what prompts such a stupid question. "Why should your sons / daughters value be measured by whether or not he goes to said university?"</p>

<p>And just as you said, and I will repeat now ad nauseum, "GPA's are not necessarily an indicator of how hard you work." You're absolutely right, but guess what? If you're a hard worker with a low GPA, you'll be successful regardless of what college you attend. </p>

<p>So why worry so much if you know you can be successful? The same reason that colleges like Legacy students.</p>

<p>Let me say this now, once and for all: Hard work gets you nowhere. Knowing people gets you places, hard work just lets you stay there. You can quote me on that. </p>

<p>I have a friend at UPenn who is in the Wharton school of business not because he's interested in business (He's in the third year of his triple major in Math/Engineering/Business) but because of the amazing connections Wharton can get. That's called social engineering, and it will get you further in life than anything else. </p>

<p>I can look at the world from this point of view because I work a job at a corporate office for 15-20 hours a week concurrently with school. It's amazing what morons get promoted while hard working people get sacked. </p>

<p>I guess this is just my $.02.</p>

<p>Hakan Sahin</p>

10

<p>That did make sense. Thanks. And of course, I'm not saying that someone who got A's in their AP courses aren't smart. Of course they are. I just feel that its not the only way to tell if someone will be successful in college. I mean, take for example the kids who took AP English at my school. A lot of them got A's, and good for them. But I've seen their college essays and they're completely devoid of creativity. And there are people who've done better than me in World History. But I remember so much of what I learned that I can carry on an intelligent conversation about, I dunno, Central American civilizations. </p>

<p>And true dat, a resourceful person can succeed anywhere.</p>

11

<p>Good GPA or not - it doesn't matter. Your say in this won't account to anything. Adcoms need something to judge you by and your GPA is the best they got. It shows whether you try in school, if you're intelligent, if you're adept, and if you are consistent. I understand your reasoning but I agree with kcir. that you are being slightly hypocritical. It's your own shortfallings if you did poorly on your GPA because plently of people with better GPAs also have better SAT scores. If they can do it, why couldn't you?</p>

12

<p>I don't know why everyone always does better than me. I work just as hard, if not harder, and that will definetely be a point in my recommendations. But in the end, yea, I ended up with a retarded GPA and I can't really blame anyone else for it. </p>

<p>I'm just arguing that my GPA shouldn't render me useless at good schools. That I have other strengths and stuff that hopefully colleges will take into account and realize that i didn't COMPLETELY throw away 4 years of high school.</p>

13

<p>Please don't take this the wrong way. </p>

<p>Judging from your username, you are Japanese-American. I have known MANY Japanese students, and it seems like there is something similar about all of them - their parents. It seems like you have this sort of strong work-hard attitude about life, but that you aren't really GETTING the things you are trying to rotely learn. You claim that "I don't know why everyone always does better than me. I work just as hard, if not harder" It sounds like you need some serious help with your study habits - something schools don't work enough with students on.</p>

14

<p>If your greatest achievements are outside the realm of coursework, then you should be able to document that. Send in a tape to demonstrate your musical ability (if it's REALLY good), send a portfolio of your artwork, a copy of the report you wrote at your DC internship, etc. It all gets considered.</p>

15

<p>haha i'm definetely not japanese. my sn is just my AIM written backwards....but that's an interesting inference. </p>

<p>And yea, i my work/study habits could definetely be better. But I'm catching senioritis already and can't see myself doing any better this year. I can pray and hope that everything else will get me into college. And of course, it's not like I'm not taking hard courses, so that's always there on the transcript. </p>

<p>And yes, a musical supplement is definetely in the works!</p>

16

<p>Let me start off by posting this quote:</p>

<p>"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent"</p>

<pre><code> -Calvin Coolidge
</code></pre>

<p>GPA is so much more than SAT. GPA not only shows your smarts but also your work ethic, your mentality, your strive.....things that are useful in later life, or so i've heard. But, I can kind of relate to what your trying to say.....</p>

<p>I'm in the same boat as you. Lower gpa, but good test scores.(2250 SAT, 35 ACT) But the fact is, you can't justify your low gpa with high test scores. </p>

<p>We always tend to make fun of people that study for 12 hours a day, and end up with a flawless GPA, but a low sat score. Why?</p>

<p>Who's smarter, the genius who wastes his talents, or the average joe that works to thier fullest potential?</p>

<p>You really reap what you sow.
I know SO many people (very bright, no work ethic) that went to below average colleges because of thier GPA. If you can get into the college of your choice now, then good job. But believe me, procrastination, having no work ethic, being lazy......it'll haunt you some day or another.</p>

<p>Of course, I'm assuming your a lazy procrastinating genius. You very well may not be, but i'm just posting the above to say what I think. :)</p>

<p>Also, to HVSahin:</p>

<p>"Let me say this now, once and for all: Hard work gets you nowhere. Knowing people gets you places, hard work just lets you stay there. You can quote me on that"</p>

<p>I think your right, but also very wrong. Hard work is more than just hard work. Its an outer expression of your "inner fire". Like you said, if your a hard worker, then you'll succeed no mater what college you go to. Thiers some irregularities in what your saying. </p>

<p>I know in the business world, connections are very important. I'm not saying they aren't but hard work comes first and foremost.</p>

<p>Think about it this way. Lets say my entire HS represents the world. And i'm the boss. 30 years later, everyone is sending apps to me, to get a job. Now, obviously I'd want my friends to get a good job. Thats your "connections". Now if I remember said friends to be lazy procrastinators, then do you think those connections will be worth anything to my friends? You want to be remembered as an honest, hardworking guy, not some lazy dick</p>

17

<p>i can relate with the statement "GPA's are overrated". But i am going to admit to my faults. When i got into high school, as a freshman, i took all advanced/honors classes, and i got A's and B's. Sophmore year i became lazy and unmotivated ( as many teenagers become) and my GPA took a minor plunge. Now, as a junior in high school, im working my ass off, yet realize that even if i get 4.0's until i graduate, my GPA won't be anything higher than a 3.8. I too, feel as if grades are a bit overrated. I understand that GPA and SAT's are colleges only factors that determine how successful a student will be at their school, therefore can accept how hard it is to get into a good college now a days. However, one thing that people forget about is cheating. For example, two kids in a calculus class, one kid studies, the other copies the kid that studied. They both get A's in the class. In high school, an "A" that is worked for and earned, produces the same effect as an "A" that was arrived by cheating. My high school is ranked within the top 10 of Washington, therefore it is very competitive. My peers have parents that are doctors, lawyers, CEO's, etc. so the standards are set very high. People are so driven to get good grades that they go to extreme measures, and in many instances, these grades aren't honest. Yet they are still getting into prestigious schools such as USC, UC schools, etc.</p>

18

<p>I think GPA is slightly overrated and test scores may be slightly underrated - but then again I don't see the relevance of EC's either unless you are passionate about them so perhaps I am the "odd man out"</p>

<p>If I were an adcom a 3.5 with good resolve and high test scores would be more appealing then a 4.0 with "meh" test scores and 444444 hours of comm service which he/she did just to get in. It is a shame you can't tell them apart on paper in so many cases though :(</p>

19

<p>I agree with you a lot in that "GPA's are overrated" mostly because they're not equally defined for all students. Even in AP classes, the grading scale and workload varies a lot from school to school. GPA's are calculated in several different ways with some schools weighting grades, others considering A-'s 3.9, etc. </p>

<p>Grades are also often subjective and not pure-number based. Even in my AP Euro class, I was the only one out of both classes to get a B (the teacher gave everybody else A's). I ended up with the highest grade on the AP test out of both classes because I worked hard. I was the one busting my ass while others mooched off their friends for the answers to the assignments. I was the one who stayed up late at night. I was the one setting the curve on all the tests. Ultimately, I think all of the studying paid off because I know a lot more than my friends who didn't work as hard and it showed on the AP test. However, I feel that my GPA does not show this.</p>

<p>I don't necessarily think GPA's are a measure of hard work. In high school, I believe that they mostly measure responsibility and intelligence. A genius could spend 2 minutes on a Calculus worksheet easily finding the answers, while another student could spend 6-7 hours that night struggling with the problems. When it comes time to give out the grades, the genius will likely have an A and the struggling hard-working student a B or C. </p>

<p>I've challenged myself with hard classes and often ended up with the B instead of the A. Yes, I know I could have probably easily got an A in the easier version, but I chose the challenge. I guess the problem that I have with GPA's is I feel like they are unfair. I love learning and challenges so naturally I want the challenge in school, but I am afraid that in the end I will be punished because I chose the harder route. I'm afraid that the adcoms will look at my transcript and see the B's and think to themself, "maybe, she just didn't try hard enough." There's no way really to tell from the GPA whether the student coasted easily through the class with minimal work or busted their butt studying at least a couple hours a night.</p>

<p>In the end, I'm not really sure that there is an ideal standard for colleges to evaluate students. It's a tricky problem with no clear answer.</p>

<p>Personally, I favor schools without grades. The students there really want to learn and don't obsess over their grade. There is a local college here that does not have any graded classes. Instead, the students are given written evaluations at the end of the class. I think that this is a lot more effective and can explain a lot more than a number. However, this is probably not a viable alternative to GPA's because it is very time-consuming for the teachers.</p>

20

<p>GPA's are relevant..... when comparing them in context to the school that you go to. Saying "I have a 4.0" is irrelevant. But saying "I have a 3.7 at Exeter" is a totally different scenario. Or, I have a "4.2 at my public high school and am first in my class". Those are relevant</p>