Ok got your point.
Is it difficult to do well in UIUC compared to MSU. And does it matter?
IS doing better in Michigan state more desirable
In my opinion these are all very good universities. They are all definitely reputable and will provide a strong education. I was already pretty sure but just checked and Michigan State University is ABET accredited for many forms of engineering. I do not think that small differences in ranking matter, even if āsmallā means letās say the difference between #30 and #60. There are a lot of good engineering programs in the US (and not a lot of secrets that they are going to teach an undergraduate student).
I might add that I am assuming that we are talking about Penn State, Virginia Tech, and Michigan State (and that UIUC and TAMU are unambiguous).
Internships do matter. If a student does well in their classes then in some cases this might help the student to find internships. Getting to know your professors can also help (particularly if the professor finds that you are intelligent, a good student, responsible, and a reasonable person to deal with).
Of course engineering is not easy anywhere. IMHO this is a good thing since we need to trust the people who design a lot of things that we use every day.
For any international student, I would not count on being able to stay in the US after graduation. There is politics involved. Politics is not always completely rational in the US, but I suspect that this is true elsewhere as well. There is currently an option for students to work in the US for a short while after graduation (I think for one or two years?) which can provide some useful experience before returning to a home country.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, the schools mentioned by you are the ones I am talking of
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It sounds like you love the scholarship offer from MSU but are worried if itās āgood enoughā. If thatās the case, you can rest easy. MSU engineering is a quality program that produces successful e engineers.
The challenge is it is not a direct admit to MechE. But itās easier than the other non direct admit schools. If itās a good fit, itās a fine choice.
If money were no object and fit was good at all, Iād lean towards taking the direct admit offer at UIUC. Great reputation and direct admit is a fantastic combo.
So for me, it would come down to how much that money makes a difference. If it would actively change how I had to live my life or how much I could help my kid out in the future, I would go with the cheaper option.
Michigan State is a great university with an excellent reputation for engineering. Iām just surprised he was offered this prestigious (and rare) scholarship but not honors, you may want to check or email about it.
As you can see the discussion revolves around direct admit v. Non direct.
Direct admit means your child doesnāt have to āprove himselfā again. He can stumble and remain in the college of engineering.
At Michigan State, he would have to do well since thereās a second review to decide whether he can officially pursue his major.
(tamu is NOT recommended bc that process is so competitive it is actively unpleasant.)
If youāre confident heāll do well then itās no problem.
As to whether itās better to be average at UIUC v. Excellent at MSU, the answer is excellent at MSU. The best opportunities go to the best students and the US is relatively equalitarian when it comes to engineering as long as the program is ABET accreditated.
Another thing Iād check into: how helpful is the internship and/or international office in helping international students with internships&paperwork, are they used to their situation, steering them to appropriate companies (ie., nothign Defense or aerospace related)? Summer internships - to be secured Fall junior year for the following summer at the latest- are essential to be granted OPT (27 months to practice what you learned). Btw internships can be anywhere in the US so having a bit of breathing room money-wise will help your son in case the internship is in a high cost of living area such as Boston, NYC or CA.
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I have an engineering degree and a finance degree from one of the schools mentioned, worked as an engineering management consultant for 3 years and recruited engineers at all but MSU as part of my job 30+ years ago before going to law school. So, my information is somewhat dated and you should take it with a grain of salt.
All are fine schools. But, most reputable or relied upon rankings clearly show UIUC and then TAMU in the top band with PSU and VT in the next band and then MSU.
If your kid is looking to get a Ph.D. eventually, then prestige and rankings matter a great deal. A high performing student at UIUC or TAMU will likely have better research and graduate school opportunities than that high performing students at lower-ranked schools, all being equal.
But, if your kid is looking to work as an engineer after college, then any of these schools will serve him well, provided that he does well at his college.
Some companies (like my old company) that will recruit from UIUC, TAMU or VTech may not go to MSU, but go to Michigan, a higher ranked and more prestigious school in the same state.
But, my sense is that enough companies will target MSU such that high performing kids at any of these schools will have many good options.
Some of the best engineers I worked with back then came from less prestigious schools in the band that MSU is in such as Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Auburn.
As someone said earlier in the thread, generally speaking, the US industry is far less hung up on rankings and prestige than Asian countries with strict hierarchical systems.
As I said, academia and other fields like law, investment banking, etc. are a different story in that rankings do matter a great deal.
Yes, the scholarship is too good to ignore.
As I understand he should be able to make it to MechE even if its not a direct admit.
My worry is, if it makes a significant difference in his career. I was also trying to avoid UIUC particularly because of the large Asian and Indian kids (we are ourselves Indian), who make the class excessively competitive, which I donāt know if it really helps. One of the reasons, we chose America to study is the real Engineering study with balance social growth. I want him to learn and understand the great American culture and nothing better than Undergraduate studies at the American Universities.
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I also believe that being excellent at MSU is much better.
Lot of good points you mentioned. Will check them all.
Thanks a lot
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Very helpful suggestions from you.
Thanks a lot
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My understanding is that if your son is a good student, he shouldnāt have a hard time getting into Mech E at MSU.
My son applied and was admitted to MSU engineering - it was his first admit actually. So I researched it somewhat. We have family thereā¦ from what I can gather, they have a very active job fair for engineers, and plenty of people recruit there. UMich has a better overall reputation, but I talked to a guy who works at Ford and he said they recruit just as much out of MSU as they do from UMich ā so if your son is a strong student, heās going to have plenty of job prospects.
My son did ED to VT and was admitted so thatās where weāre going. The main reason is that we get in state tuition, which even with a scholarship to MSU (not as much as your sons but still good), VT was cheaper. He also liked the campus, likes the food at VT and the setting.
MSU and PSU are indistinguishable.
Frankly, all are indistinguishable - just not on rank where Illinois is the highest and A&M and Va Tech next - and then UMN, MSU, and PSU are indistinguishable - IMHO.
Of course, my kid chose Alabama over Purdue (his choice) - and heās got job offers over Purdueās average salary last year.
So I contend there is zero issue with going to Michigan State or Penn State if you choose either as it sounds like they are the final two. Let me tell you - while I wished my son had gone to Purdue, my bank account thanks it every day he chose Alabama, especially seeing the job he got.
So cost should be a factor and itās weighing on your mind.
Direct Admit should absolutely be a factor.
If heās visited the two finalists, which does he prefer and why?
Is there an industry heās interested in? Maybe one school focuses on one - for example, and I donāt know this, but Michigan State might be strong with automotive.
Finally - where is he going after - but likely not staying in the US.
You will see kids from Michigan State outperform in year one and year 21 - kids from Illiniois.
These are all ABET schools - and graduates of these schools will all be working side by side.
You keep saying one is better - and I suppose there are better schools than othersā¦just like at the best schools there are better professors than others. But we donāt know which schools those are.
You are making an assessment off a magazine that is trying to sell subscriptions. You do not know which is better - but you keep saying Michigan State is worse. Did your son talk to their students (that can be arranged)? Did they tell them - they are horrible here?
The fact is, these are all great schools - and you should pick the best fit - and finances are a part of fit.
Here is Michigan Stateās career report for MechE - I suggest you look at others.
Among these schools, UMN Twin Cities actually is best for job placement. It is in a large cities that has dynamic economics. Lot more opportunities for internships etc.
Congratulations.
Good point you raised on VT. We are also thinking of VT. How does VT compare to Penn State on MechE.
Someone told me that living expense in Penn State is significantly higher than VT. Is it true.
I donāt know much about Penn State unfortunately. It wasnāt on our list, so I couldnāt make comparisons. Blacksburg is a lower cost of living area, looking around when kids move off campus, they seem to be paying about $700-800 per month (but keep in mind Iāve only briefly looked at this, my son joined a residential college at VT and will live on campus for the first 2 years).
Our list was: VT, MSU, ASU, Colorado School of Mines, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Purdue, UVA, and VCU
Valid points from your side. Yes, my opinion is based on magazine reports.
He may finally settle down in US. All his cousins are American Citizens. My Sister is American and her kids have gone to good schools and have recently taken up jobs in San Fran an NY. But they are all in IT. My son wants to pursue traditional Mechanical.
Initially he may go for higher studies and later see what to do.
He can do well in studies but we don t know how he manages in US universities. Difficult to say. He got 1500 in his first attempt at SAT but that is just basic math and English. University is different and we donāt know how he manages in college life.
The points raised by you will defintly help me to decide.
Thanks for info.
We also loved UMN Twin cities due to many companies in Minneapolis. But when we talked to some friends, they all talked of extreme weather. When we compared Twin cities using Weatherspark, we got a shock. So never went back to thinking of it. Infact UMN was the first offer he got.
OP - you can research living off campus with easy google searches.
I canāt imagine PSU and Va Tech are that different in cost of living.
Both are nice small cities/areas in the middle of nowhere.
You really donāt have a bad school on your list - but look at the Michigan State job report I sent. Other schools will have similar.
PSU and Va Tech are also both HUGE (as is Texas A&M) - in regards to area.
Va Tech has the highest rated college food in the country - and thatās an underrated stat.
I thought the choice was just PSU or Michigan State at this point.
I wouldnāt eliminate a school because of ācompetitionā with my ethnicity. And you will find ethnicity (Asian) at most engineering schools - even my sonāsā¦even if the overall college ethnicity is low.
Your kid is a kid and I might be blind to it - but to me that shouldnāt be an issue.
He wants to go and join Sustainability Energy Industry.
Mainly in the field Wind turbines or HydroKinetic turbines.
I checked the link you sent. Very good info. Thanks