The main reason for posting this forum is to find help in choosing between a career in psychiatry or psychology. I understand the differences in schooling for these two career paths and am not seeking advice in this aspect.
I will begin by saying that I have been interested in behavioral science since my freshman year in high school. I am now in the second semester of my senior year and am stuck between psychiatry and psychology. I am seeking advice and a clear cut explanation on which of these suits my preferences the best.
Here’s an example of the sort of work that I desire to do from an excerpt in Thomas Harris’ Red Dragon,
"Dr. Bloom said the Tooth Fairy’s acts and his letter indicated a projective delusional scheme which compensated for intolerable feelings of inadequacy. Smashing the mirrors tied these feelings to his appearance. The killer’s objection to the name “Tooth Fairy” was grounded in the homosexual implications of the word “fairy.” Bloom believed he had an unconscious homosexual conflict, a terrible fear of being gay. Dr. Bloom’s opinion was reinforced by one curious observation at the Leeds house: fold marks and covered bloodstains indicated the Tooth Fairy put a pair of shorts on Charles Leeds after he was dead. Dr. Bloom believed he did this to emphasize his lack of interest in Leeds. The psychiatrist talked about the strong bonding of aggressive and sexual drives that occurs in sadists at a very early age. The savage attacks aimed primarily at the women and performed in the presence of their families were clearly strikes at a maternal figure. Bloom, pacing, talking half to himself, called his subject “the child of a nightmare.”
Psychiatry and Psychology:
I am not necessarily interested in the study or healing of mental illnesses, which, from what I understand, ecompasses the entire career of psychiatry because they are medical doctors which study medicine. However, whether this is true or not i do not know and I was wondering if there was any other application for psychiatry besides healing mental illness. (maybe solely working to understand the behavioral science of other’s actions instead of working to heal their mental illnesses). If not, then I am not interested in psychiatry and will pursue a career in psychology. The excerpt is almost precisely the work which I wish to do for the rest of my life, minus the forensic aspect. I am particularly interested in the study of behavioral science and the underlying causes of it, in this excerpt it’s the understanding of a serial killer’s actions. Although, I am unsure as to whether this sort of work can be applied in a separate subspecialty of psychiatry other than forensic psychiatry. Reason being is because I am not entirely convinced with the politics of the law system ( if that makes sense).
Subspecialties:
I would also like to know the various subspecialties, for both psychiatry and psychology, which align with the work in the excerpt above.
My husband is a psychologist who works with both psychologists and psychiatrists. Basic difference: psychiatrists are medical doctors who see a patient for a few minutes and write a prescription and then hold later medical appointments to see how the patient is responding to the medication. Psychologists offer the ongoing “talking cure.” Although there are still some psychiatrists who practice psychoanalysis, by and large that type of work is handled by psychologists these days. So, do you want to write prescriptions or to talk out a patient’s issues in an ongoing therapeutic relationship? That will define your choice.
@WayOutWestMom, you’re missing psychoanalysis from your list of potential psychiatry subspecialties. I don’t think it technically counts since the programs are not part of ACGME if i recall, but it’s certainly the route that uses language like OP is using.
Outside of doing research, no, there isn’t really any use for a pysch MD besides treating patients. I’d argue that a clinical psych PhD would be a better degree for a research career than an MD anyway.
With regard to forensic psych, my understanding its that it’s not usually the way SVU/Criminal Minds portrays it. The one forensic psychiatrist I know said the overwhelming majority of his work was not trying to figure out the motivations of murderers and deviants but doing evaluations to determine whether someone was fit to stand criminal trial/testify in an affirmative defense or doing evaluations so he could testify in a civil case about the level of damages inflicted on the plaintiff by the defendant.
Psychoanalysis isn’t a ACGME recognized psychiatric subspecialty. It requires additional training post-residency typically at some outside-of-medicine/private psychoanalytic center. (And IIRC, practitioners of psychoanalysis are first required to undergo several years of psychoanalysis themselves before they can apply for training.)
The older analysts I know weren’t required to have had therapy prior to training but did their analysis concurrently with their training. I suspect it hasn’t changed because I know they still serve as training analysts (i.e. analysts who perform psychoanalysis on psychoanalysis trainees) at their institutes and obviously this wouldn’t be necessary if the trainees were required to have undergone analysis prior to training.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their responses which were generally very constructive and helped me narrow down my options in terms of what career I should pursue. I’ve decided I will pursue a PhD degree in either social psychology or I/O psychology. So, now that I’ve decided on a career, i’m a bit confused as to what sort of path I would take in order to obtain a PhD in psychology. My main questions right now are as follows:
1.) I am planning on attending either OU or OSU ( Oklahoma) basically for free, or pretty close to it. There, I will get a bachelor of science in psychology. So is there any sort of special criteria I should look for to help me decide on which to attend? Right now I believe I will choose OSU over OU simply because it is slightly less expensive and I don’t believe there are any major differences in the two psychology departments.
2.) I want to make sure that, from what i’ve read, my idea of obtaining a PhD is correct. In order to obtain a PhD, one needs a masters degree, and in order to obtain a master’s degree, one needs a bachelor’s degree. Is this correct? If I am admitted to a master’s program, is admission into the school’s doctorate program guaranteed considering the student obtains the master’s degree?
3.) What sort of financial aid and scholarships are made available to students in graduate school? Will getting scholarships for graduate school come from the school itself or outside sources? Do either of these scholarships anything involve submitting essays, financial need, academic rigor, and academic performance? As for financial aid, are there various grants made available for graduate students and is there a difference between out-of state tuition and in-state tuition?
4.) I was also wondering what graduate schools had the best reputations for psychology programs? What is the selection criteria for these specific schools like?
5.) Would graduating summa cum laude or having a double major, say in sociology, give me any sort of advantage in regards to being admitted to these graduate programs?
6.) Is it safe to assume that a doctorate’s degree from a better psychology program will have more opportunities compared to a doctorate’s degree from OU or OSU but it will also result in a higher amount of debt?
Either school in OK is fine, OU has a better academic reputation outside the state. I generally think it’s best to not be so narrowly focused on specific majors within a school because so many students change their mind on their career directions…however you seem to have identified your trajectory in a much more concrete fashion that I think you’re better prepared to do deeper analysis of the schools and specifically the Psychology Departments. Despite your deep interests in a few choice fields in psych, you will probably be best served going to the school with the stronger department overall. My reasoning comes from my own career - I’m specialized in pediatric critical care medicine (which requires a fellowship out of a pediatrics residency) but the best advice I got when looking at residencies was “the best pediatric subspecialists start out as great general pediatricians”. A strong, well-rounded base will do nothing but benefit you. If after you have evaluated both programs and still feel that they are equivalent, then you should look at the opportunities available for students in the department. Can you get involved in research? Are there unique features to either school? I would also not sleep on your overall fit at either place. An environment that suits you will make it easier to be successful.
Yes you need a bachelor’s degree first. While I suppose it happens where you would do a master’s at one location then move to another program for the PhD, it is much more common to enter a PhD program directly from undergrad, and you’ll earn a Master’s along the way. For many programs in many academic fields, the first 2-3 years comprise a significant amount of classroom work then writing a thesis, and the remaining years - usually 4-5 for a total of 7 years - spent with far less classroom work and LOTS more doing your own research and writing a dissertation describing that research.
Check that APA website
Take one step at a time. While you may feel you’re set on your desired field now, lots can change. A school that’s really good in one discipline may not be good in another.
Doing well always helps. A double major is probably not as helpful. If you have a real interest in sociology, explore it. You may find a unique blend of the fields that is attractive to certain programs, but in a general sense, I would not expect a double major to make you a more attractive applicant.
Yes a PhD from a highly recognized program will open more doors for you. The debt question is not as straight forward and your assumption about greater cost may or may not be true
While this is definitely true for something like a life/hard science PhD or a more traditional humanities PhD (e.g. comp lit, classics), for clinical psych, it’s actually quite rare to be admitted to a PhD program straight from undergrad (e.g. my friend was at a clinical psych PhD program with about 20ish people per year, and there were 2 total straight from undergrad admits in the entire program). Not because you need a masters, but because they want to see more experience/maturity than undergraduate psychology programs provide. For example my friend, who was one of the straight from undergrad admits had been interning in psych wards and doing psych research since high school and through college. Given that social and I/O psych PhDs are probably way less likely to be therapists than clinical psych PhDs (i’m guessing), it might be quite different but I would definitely look into those types of programs specifically as not all PhD fields behave similarly.