PsyD?

Parents Forum
1

My D is starting to consider applying to attend a PsyD program after undergrad. Any insights from anyone knowledgeable? How are job prospects for PsyD degree holders? How many years does it really take to finish? Do students pay tuition while they are doing internships? How do students typically pay for their studies? Is funding available? How selective are the programs to get into? What advantages are there to attending a selective program over a less selective program? What should she do now as an undergrad to position herself for applying? Especially during the summer? Does she need to take both the regular GRE and the Psychology subject GRE? When do students typically take these GRE exams? Do students typically go straight from undergrad to a PsyD program, or take time off to work in between?

She is currently a sophomore at Dickinson College, and is double majoring in psychology and Italian. She plans to study abroad all of junior year, one semester in Italy and one semester in Australia, which could make undergrad prep more difficult. Her grades are OK, but not great, with about a 3.4 GPA. She is more interested in the PsyD than the PhD, more interested in practice rather than research.

2

I work with a lot of DPsy’s. I cannot answer any of your questions but gradcafe might help.

3

Years ago, only PhD programs were funded, and were far more competitive. There are good PsyD programs, and those students can pass the national exams.

I’d look at the rate of students who pass the exams.

My info is very old, but we took both exams. Working in the field during and after college was extremely helpful with admissions.

Your Dd has time to look into programs and funding. She could also consider pursuing a LMSW degree. Neither field offers enough $ to make it worth while to incur huge debt.

4

The PsyD degree seems great for those who want to be practicing clinical psychologists. No need to do the research required for the PhD in Psych. It all depends on your D’s ultimate goals. It seems like many of her questions should be answered by those in the field. Reminds me of choosing medical school over graduate school- a professional degree.

PS- as a physician I would have no qualms in choosing someone with that degree over the PhD for patients. Well trained individuals do not need to do research to be able to be good clinicians. I see no reason to suffer through the PhD process to practice clinical psychology unless the thought of doing research intrigues a person. Perhaps some PhD Psychologists can comment on real life after school.

5

As I wrote previously, $ can be an issue. PhD. Programs may accept 5-10 students per year, and fund them throughout. PsyD programs cost $.

In FL, I meet many psyDs from Nova SE u. They require a minimum of 119 credits, and charge $970 per credit. That means $115,430. There are many other charges, as well as living expenses. They must stay on campus 3 years.

Wis, no mean to offend, but there are different qualifications for these programs. Many PhD students do not intend to do research, but chose a funded graduate program rather than accrue debt. Personally, I am comfortable referring to LMSWs and LM&FTs. Sacchi s daughter can also look into these programs, which are less costly.

6

I have a PhD in clinical psychology, earned about 15 years ago, work in mental health research, and agree with what’s been posted so far. In particular, going for the PhD is generally much more competitive but with the huge advantage of being tuition-free. If she goes the PhD route, research experience is essential to be a competitive applicant. If the aim is to work as a mental health clinician, I would explore the licensed social worker or related (non-doctoral) degree. In practice, they typically perform very similar roles, especially psychotherapy. I would also agree with the caution not to take on much debt in this pursuit as mental health clinicians are not highly compensated–insurance reimbursement rates are low.

Also, applicants to any of these programs often take a year or more off before heading to grad school; this gives them a chance to pick up some research and/or real-world experience in health care settings. I think grad schools actually prefer this pattern to the applicant that goes directly from undergrad to grad. But you could contact some programs to find out what they look for in competitive applicants. Good luck!

7

Thanks for the info so far. Is a 3.4 GPA realistic for the more selective PhD programs?

8

I think that’s probably on the low side for a PhD program, to be honest. I’d suggest looking at the programs’ web sites or calling the program directly to get a profile of admitted students. Here’s a paragraph from the Admissions website for University of Maryland PhD Psych Program as to what they expect:

“The specific criteria for admission to the Department of Psychology vary somewhat across specialty areas, but generally include a high undergraduate grade point average, high scores on the Graduate Record Examination, strong letters of recommendation, and research experience and/or previous relevant work experience. In most specialty areas, students are expected to have a thorough background in psychology, however some specialty areas prefer a thorough background in mathematics, biological and/or physical sciences (see specialty area descriptions). Students are expected to have appropriate background experiences that prepare them to begin graduate work when they enter our graduate program.”

9

A 3.4 is on the low side, but she can overcome that by getting solid research experience (including perhaps two years after college to get more). Plus if she’s a sophomore she has some time to bring her GPA up. FWIW I had a 3.4 when graduating from college and got into a top 20 social psychology PhD program, which is almost as competitive as clinical (but not quite).

Job prospects for clinical psychologists are good, and as long as she gets a degree from an APA-accredited program I’m not sure that people make a distinction between PsyD and PhD in clinical practice anymore. This is especially true if she goes to a well-reputed PsyD program. Where a difference will come in is if she decides that she wants to teach. A PsyD could probably adjunct classes but not be competitive in seeking a position as a tenure-track academic or researcher. However, if she doesn’t want to do research then this is probably a moot point anyway.

Most PsyD programs are not funded, and students are expected to pay (out of pocket or with loans), much as they would for medical school. Some PsyD programs award assistantships to a few students to help them pay. One exception that I know of is James Madison’s combined-integrated PsyD program, which prepares students for licensure in both school and clinical psychology; this program fully funds all of their students for 3 years of tuition. During their internship year, they just pay for one credit each semester, which is about $2,200 total for an OOS student.

PsyD programs usually take 4 years - 3 years of coursework and 1 year of internship. Because they tend to be more structured in terms of classwork and requirements, and dissertations tend to be less onerous, I think PsyD students do finish in 4 years most of the time (sometimes 5, I suppose). There’s a broadsheet somewhere with students’ licensure rates and APA-accredited internship rates; it might be on the APA website, but I don’t remember where I saw it.

For PsyD programs, getting clinical volunteer experience is probably good - so volunteering in a hospital, clinic, or private practice with a currently practicing psychologist or other mental health clinician, or on a psychiatric ward. PsyD students do need to be able to consume research (rather than produce it) so that they stay up to date in their practice on the latest techniques and problems, so assisting a professor in research can only help. Most students take the GRE some time between March of their junior year and November of their senior year; the summer is a good time, since you can retake if you don’t like your scores. Some programs require the Psychology GRE and some don’t; she should check individual websites of the programs to see if they do. I don’t think there is a typical student; it really depends on the program. The James Madison program says it’s designed for people who already have a graduate degree in mental health and who want to continue their education. Some other PsyD programs might be set up that way. I think they take students from a variety of backgrounds.

Also, FWIW, I studied abroad in college and continued my research when I was abroad, because I knew I wanted to do a PhD. So your daughter might seek out ways to continue her volunteering or research abroad - in both places she will know the language, so she might consider volunteering in an Italian hospital and/or studying how mental health systems differ across Italy, Australia, and the U.S. If she goes to a university-based program (rather than an independent one) then she might have connections within a university she can use for research.

10

I have a sampling of only one:

My BIL has a PsyD. He is very smart, but didn’t have the grades to get into a fully funded PH.D program. He had to get loans to pay for his PsyD, and they were well into six figures.

He is drowning in those loans, is married with 3 kids and he and my sis are always complaining about struggling financially. I don’t know if this constant struggle is due to his loans, due to his inability to establish a successful practice, his and my sister’s spending habits, or what. What I do know is that I am extremely grateful that D1 was accepted into a very prestigious FULLY FUNDED clinical psychology program so that she will not have any debt whatsoever when she graduates. Not so much as one dime.

11

Thanks for all of the useful info and suggestions. I’ll pass them along to D. This is a field about which I know nothing, so it is good to hear some different perspectives.

12

Excellent idea to do research early. It’s great that she is doing semester abroad - DS enjoyed his (Singapore). Two semesters abroad could make it hard to get in all the courses and not risk GPA. Good luck!

13

While it is a good suggestion to do research while abroad, I doubt D will want to do it. She won’t have a local advisor to work with, and won’t know how to get started on her own. And she will want to have the time available to really experience the other countries. She will consider trying to do some research at her college during her senior year.

Being abroad for a full year will cut into her ability to prepare for what she will do after graduation. What can she do this summer and next summer? She doesn’t have any psychology related work or volunteer experience at all. The closest thing is volunteering assisting disabled kids riding horses. She has previously worked retail and had an unpaid marketing internship last summer. She is interested in doing something psychology related this summer, but doesn’t know how to find opportunities. To complicate things, her parents (my H and I) are moving cross country in April, far away from her college and current home, so she will spend the summer in a place where she has never been before and knows nobody, and doesn’t even have an address at yet.

14

I would encourage your D to get psych related experience before even mentally committing to grad school.

Practicing isn’t what undergrads think it is- regardless of the clinical setting.

She is for sure putting the cart before the horse here. I have had many people working for me in corporate human resources with advanced degrees in psych- most of whom discovered partway through their programs that being a clinical psychologist was NOT what it looked like on Law and Order, et al. I’ve hired PhD’s in psychology for lots of corporate roles-- virtually all of whom decided that they hated clinical psych because they didn’t know what they were getting into. (my companies market research department is mostly former psychologists- either MS or PhD).

If she has no psychology related work she needs to get some. Not so it enhances her grad school applications (which it will) but because she needs to understand what the job entails. School psychology is different from private practice is different from working in a homeless shelter or a prison or a hospital- but if her main impressions of the profession are from TV she needs a reality check really quickly.

15

She isn’t really putting the cart before the horse yet, since this is something that she is just starting to consider. My point is posting the thread is to get an idea of what she should be thinking about and doing now so that she will be well positioned if she does eventually decide to go down the PsyD path.

The suggestion to get psych related experience is a good one. How does a student find these opportunities, especially in a completely new location, where she would have zero contacts?

16

Volunteering is the fastest way to get quality experience. Hospital, nursing home, long term care/rehab facility, methadone clinic, homeless shelter, program for teen mothers, programs that work with at-risk youth, etc. Any organization which has therapists, social workers, and counselors on their staff will have volunteer opportunities that will give your D a taste of what working with real people is like.

The D of a friend has just completed her licensing requirements in the state she wants to live in post-PsyD… AND has concluded that the work is not for her. She’s worked in both a big care facility and a group private practice and is now back to square 1 with what she wants to do with her life.

Yikes.

17

I didn’t figure out what I wanted to do until I was 29. Fortunately it only took 4 more years of school (part time while raising toddlers), rather than the up to 9 year (or even a couple more) track a doctorate takes.

18

Nothing wrong with figuring things out at 29 or 35 or even later.

But if you’re taking out loans for a PsyD program, your repayment plan starts long before you’ve got a handle on what it is you REALLY want to be doing.

19

^^^I can totally see why a funded program would be preferable, even if a career in research isn’t the goal. One can certainly focus on the clinical aspect with a PhD. My PsyD BIL is in his early 40’s, still repaying those loans.

20

I think this link will give lots of resources for you and your D.

http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/doctoral-applicants-read-first-helpful-threads.714255/

The critical points I think are if you want a career in Clinical Psychology go to an APA approved fully funded program.