Public college football and male basketball players SAT scores far below classmates'

Applying to College
121

<p>I highly doubt the results would be the same for "chicks". Female athletes don't generate as much interest at the college as male athletes do. So, naturally, the colleges won't recruit female athletes as hard. I can name off the past 5 years final fours for men's basketball and all I know about women's is that Tennessee dominates. I don't watch college football all that often, but I can name off some of the perennially dominant teams and previous 4 years winners. </p>

<p>Basically, think of sports as advertising for the schools. Female athletes use their sport as an extracurricular most of the time. Men on the other hand can actually use a sport as a reason to be accepted, because people actually tend to watch their sports. I know a kid who is a 2 star prospect and was offered at Lehigh for basketball, but he has like a 2.3 GPA. I doubt any female 2 star athlete with a 2.3 GPA would get an offer from a school like Lehigh.</p>

122

<p><a href="http://santitafarella.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/100_2030.jpg?w=460&h=684%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://santitafarella.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/100_2030.jpg?w=460&h=684&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

123

<p>Athletes are doing some interesting things during and after playing college sports. It has become such huge business there are numerous offshoots from athlete to career. </p>

<p>The young adult son of a coworker landed a job in sports management at a large professional facility right after graduation. He was a football jock. He's got a better job than most young grads we know, and he's surviving happily on the opposite coast from his parents. He loves what he does. </p>

<p>Another coach we know received an advanced degree in something like nutrition/exercise physiology, teaches at a community college, and opened an indoor sports facility with his father (also a coach and longtime CC instructor) and his brother (coach and lawyer). </p>

<p>Their connections from years of playing and coaching sports afforded them the opportunity to interest investors in their building, and to attract teams to play there from out of the area. It is used by a variety of sports.</p>

<p>College students are having more trouble than ever graduating in 4 years with a bachelor's degree. Recruited athletes aren't a large enough number to create a problem of this magnitude.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The National Center for Education released preliminary statistics based on a study of 1 million students, showing that, nationwide, 33.1 percent of students who started college full-time in fall 1996 graduated in four years. The study also indicated that 16.5 percent graduated in five years and 5.1 percent finished in six years. The remaining students took longer to earn a degree or never finished at all.</p>

<p>"At least half of all students who have entered a four-year institution have failed to realize their dreams and aspirations that led them there in the first place," Watson Scott Swail, the president of the Educational Policy Institute, wrote in the January issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2004/02/13/Metro/Nationally.College.Taking.Longer-606949.shtml%5DNationally"&gt;http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2004/02/13/Metro/Nationally.College.Taking.Longer-606949.shtml]Nationally&lt;/a>, college taking longer - Metro<a href="This%20was%20a%202004%20article%20found%20on%20a%20quick%20search,%20but%20it's%20a%20decent%20synopsis.">/url</a></p>

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<p>I just went hunting for some recent NCAA numbers. This is why students are cautioned that few high school athletes eventually play NCAA sports, and they need to worry about their academics. </p>

<p>NCAA</a> Sports and Scholarship Facts and Opportunities</p>

<p>
[quote]
Understanding NCAA Athletic Scholarships</p>

<p>NCAA athletic scholarships for undergraduate student-athletes are partially funded through the NCAA membership revenue distribution. About $1 billion in athletic scholarships are awarded each year. </p>

<p>More than 126,000 student-athletes receive either a partial or full athletic scholarship. This is approximately one third of all who participate in NCAA sports. However, these scholarships are awarded and administered directly by each academic institution, not the NCAA. </p>

<p>The tables below lists all the NCAA sports offered for men and women in each division along with the maximum number of scholarship awards permitted. </p>

<p>Men's NCAA Athletic Scholarships 2006-07</p>

<p>SPORT TOTAL NCAA COLLEGES DIVISION I (SCHOLARSHIPS) DIVISION II (SCHOLARSHIPS) DIVISION III </p>

<p>Baseball 876 285 (11.7) 232 (9) 359
Basketball 1004 1004 283 (10) 395
Cross Country 881 303 (12.6) 229 (12.6) 349
Fencing 35 20 (4.5) 3 (4.5) 12
Football 621 Bowl Subdivision 117 (85) Championship Subdivsion 118 (63) 155 (36) 231
Golf 772 289 (4.5) 210 (3.6) 273
Gymnastics 19 17 (6.3) 0 (5.4) 2
Ice Hockey 133 58 (18) 7 (13.5) 68
Lacrosse 220 56 (12.6) 32 (10.8) 132
Rifle 10 7 (3.6) 0 3
Skiing 36 14 (6.3) 8 (6.3) 14
Soccer 741 199 (9.9) 159 (9) 383
Swimming 379 139 (9.9) 51 (8.1) 189
Tennis 745 264 (4.5) 170 (4.5) 311
Indoor Track 571 243 (12.6) 107 (12.6) 221
Outdoor Track 664 263 (12.6) 152 (12.6) 249</p>

<p>Volleyball 80 22 (4.5) 15 (4.5) 43
Water Polo 46 21 (4.5) 9 (4.5) 16
Wrestling 226 87 (9.9) 42 (9) 97 </p>

<p>Women's NCAA Athletic Scholarships 2006-07</p>

<p>SPORT TOTAL NCAA COLLEGES DIVISION I (SCHOLARSHIPS) DIVISION II (SCHOLARSHIPS) DIVISION III </p>

<p>Basketball 1028 324 (15) 281 (10) 423
Bowling 47 27 (5) 15 (5) 5
Cross Country 957 323(18) 260 (12.6) 374
Equestrian 20 14 (15) 6 (15) 0
Fencing 43 25 (5) 4 (4.5) 14
Field Hockey 257 77 (12) 26 (6.3) 154
Golf 500 232 (6) 125 (5.4) 143
Gymnastics 85 64 (12) 6 (6) 15
Ice Hockey 76 32 (18) 2 (18) 42
Lacrosse 273 80 (12) 36 (9.9) 157
Rifle 13 10 (3.6) 0 (3.6) 3
Rowing 143 86 (20) 15 (20) 42
Skiing 40 16 (7) 9 (6.3) 15
Soccer 920 301 (12) 213 (9.9) 406
Softball 915 265 (12) 257 (7.2) 391
Swimming 497 189 (14) 72 (8.1) 236</p>

<p>Tennis 883 310 (8) 213 (6) 360
Indoor Track 633 291 (18) 113 (12.6) 229
Outdoor Track 718 298 (18) 161 (12.6) 259
Volleyball 990 311 (12) 269 (8) 410
Water Polo 61 31 (8) 10 (8) 20

[/quote]
</p>

125

<p>I have a lot of ECs too.
That doesn't even COMPARE to the schedule of an athlete on his/her way of competing at D1 levels at schools mentioned in this article though.</p>

126

<p>Wow well I wonder if any of the nerds here complaining about the athletes has ever done anything remotely athletic. Obviously, those who haven't fail to realize that becoming a stellar athlete is far more difficult than becoming a great student as all of the skill come from PHYSICAL hard work. And, on top of that, athletes still have to keep their grades decent. I don't think that anyone will disagree: studying for an AP Chemistry test is slightly easier than practice the week before a state championship game.</p>

127

<p>Ah yes, the old brains vs. brawn argument. It's probaly as old as the chicken and the egg discussion.</p>

128

<p>That's what Atl is all about... you have some players that only want to play and you have others that do both and are stressed</p>

129

<p>I got one!</p>

<p>A girl from my school only applied to Michigan last year because of the swim team ranked top 5 in nation. However, she had SATS in the 900's and a GPA of a 3.0ish. Michigan is pretty selective. The Michigan swim team obviously pulled a few strings here.</p>

130

<p>
[quote]
Football and basketball players work just as hard as we do, simply with a different interest. We study hard, they practice hard. If we are rewarded with scholarships, why should they not receive them as well?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh, I dunno, maybe because it's a SCHOOL? Not a minor league team?</p>

131

<p>^ Football and basketball players do a hell of a lot more for major universities than what average joe engineering/business/arts/etc major will ever bring to the table. The real shame is that they do not receive fair market compensation for what they do bring to the universities.</p>

<p>Sports are integral to the success of many schools. Some smaller publics need football to take their university to the next level (academically). Aside from being a great recreational event that brings students together, football also helps build a school's identity. It can be the difference maker that turns a commuter school into a regional school which provides a real college experience to its students. That can be far more valuable than what is taught in the classroom or in a book.</p>

132

<p>Here is an article written by a U of Oregon faculty member that talks about spending on sports
[url=<a href="http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/opinion/5038969-47/story.csp%5DOpinion:"&gt;http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/opinion/5038969-47/story.csp]Opinion:&lt;/a> Editorials & Letters | "It</p>

133

<p>
[quote]
If we are rewarded with scholarships, why should they not receive them as well?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Because universities aren't Spartan gyms. Using your logic, the NBA should reserve slots for 5'4" math geniuses because they "work hard".</p>

<p>Ultimately, this is a debate on what the function of a university is. Some people believe in the ideal vision of a university as a place of learning, and in that vision, propping up athletes instead of scholars is short of an abomination. Others see universities as a corporation, and if athletics bring fame and fortune to an institution, then athletes have every right to be viewed as equal (if not superior) commodities than mere grade grubbers. Others have a vision of university as a process of (masculine, mind you) mental and physical perfection, which sounds pretty homoerotic actually; I think this is the underlying belief (and insecurity of being a "nerd school") that drives schools, even comparatively wussy Ivy League ones, to maximize their athletic potential.</p>

134

<p>
[quote]
Some people believe in the ideal vision of a university as a place of learning,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You don't think there's ANY learning that takes place in an athletic facility? NONE whatsoever? No educational value in athletics?</p>

<p>I guess there's no educational value in the dance department or the band department or the drama department either. Close them up.. all they do is cost money.</p>

135

<p>This was said about 3 or 4 posts back but I don't know how to work these forums and do not know how to quote:</p>

<p>"^ Football and basketball players do a hell of a lot more for major universities than what average joe engineering/business/arts/etc major will ever bring to the table. The real shame is that they do not receive fair market compensation for what they do bring to the universities.</p>

<p>Sports are integral to the success of many schools. Some smaller publics need football to take their university to the next level (academically). Aside from being a great recreational event that brings students together, football also helps build a school's identity. It can be the difference maker that turns a commuter school into a regional school which provides a real college experience to its students. That can be far more valuable than what is taught in the classroom or in a book."</p>

<p>--Okay, it's obvious that football and other big-name sports bring in a lot of money for major universities, but you simply CANNOT say that athletes do more for the school than engineering/business/whatever students do. The qualification of "average joe" students has to be thrown out because the athletes at major universities certainly aren't average joe. The entire business mechanism of a university is to draw in the most talented students in the country and kick out the most successful people in the nation. This is how colleges draw in more applicants, students, etc. and receive more tuition, alumni donation, etc. Therefore, it's pretty obvious that the academic student body's "top recruits" are the ones who are actually pushing the school in the right direction far more than the top athletes. Sure, Tom Brady was great at football and at Michigan he did a lot for the program... I guess... but is he donating millions upon millions to the school to start a top 10 business program? No. Stephen Ross is doing that though, and he was just a talented business student who is now sitting on a fortune way fatter than anything Brady will ever pull out of his ass (not to mention he now owns the Dolphins, who screwed the Pats out of a spot in the playoffs. Therefore, Ross > Brady). </p>

<p>So, the real reason I posted. Major sport athletes do not do as well on their SATs and academics because they do not care as much and it's simply not "cool" to do good in school. This is the honest-to-god truth because the less well-known sports, let's say swimming, consistantly have significantly higher average GPA's than their high school or college's football/basketball/hockey team will. There's obviously other factors here, but I was recruited to nearly every Big Ten school for swimming and I turned them all down for UPenn. Find me the football player who will do that. It's just not cool to be smart if you're overly talented at football or basketball. </p>

<p>Personally, I blame the media.</p>

136

<p>
[quote]
There's obviously other factors here, but I was recruited to nearly every Big Ten school for swimming and I turned them all down for UPenn. Find me the football player who will do that. It's just not cool to be smart if you're overly talented at football or basketball.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>SI.com</a> - Writers - Andy Staples: FB Meyers chooses Princeton over powers - Friday January 11, 2008 4:19PM</p>

137

<p>I think swimmers are in a totally different situation than football and basketball recruits. As in, the probability of becoming an olympic-level swimmer after college (making a profession out of swimming) is MUCH MUCH MUCH less than making it to the NFL or the NBA. College and high school swimmers understand that their days in competitive swimming are dwindling to an end. Thus, they choose to go to Plan B, aka getting a good education at a top college. These big name high school prospects for basketball and football in the rivals.com top 250 are most likely going to get drafted. Therefore it's safe for them to neglect education. Not to mention the fact that these recruits, unlike top swimmers in the world, will be set for life after playing pro basketball and football.</p>

138

<p>The top 250 Rivals recruits in BB and football have very little chance of playing professionally. Most college athletes will never earn a paycheck for playing beyond the college level. I don't care if they have lower SAT scores going in; my (non-college-athlete) son's friends at his college had scores 300 points below his and they are all doing fine. The graduation rates of athletes has been poor up to now because their was no incentive to graduate them. Now that the NCAA has recently given the schools an incentive to graduate athletes ("lose athletic scholarships if you do not graduate your players"), the athletes will start graduating.
Let's be honest, if a an Ivy League university liked some non-academic talent of your child and offered her admission and free tuition, would you advise her to turn it down because her SAT scores were 200 points lower than the average or would you assume that her willingness to work hard and diligence in class would see her through? It would be hard to turn that down, wouldn't it? Wait, what if they then told her she could come to the school, but would have to work year round, approximately 40 hours a week with no schedule flexibility (i.e. can't trade hours to get Saturday night off for the sorority formal or Thanksgiving with the family or go home for spring break) and that she would have to make sure her class schedule always allowed for an uninterrupted 3-4 hour block every morning or afternoon? Oh, and that if any of her professors minded that she would miss classes throughout the semester due to travel, she would have to drop that class and find another? And then, what if she had to go to the gym and work out everyday, regardless of if she was sick, hot , cold, tired, or whatever? Everyday she would have to go work out and if she was sniffly or had strep throat, she would have to show up so the training staff could verify that? And let's say she did work out while sick or fatigued and hurt herself... could she fit two more hours of physical therapy in everyday? (Because she would still have to attend the three to four hours of practice whether participating or not.) The hours athletes have to put in is crazy and many students would find it difficult to stay on track for their degree with that level of commitment. That so many athletes do graduate from top schools where the student body excels academically is to be lauded. They graduate for the same reason non-athletes do: they work hard and are determined to get that degree. Once a basic level of high school prep has been reached, SAT scores do not matter, desire and work ethic are what will determine who is successful.</p>

139

<p>I was always under the impression that most prospective athletes had to achieve NCAA Clearinghouse Eligibility academic criteria if they wanted to play DI & DII sports at colleges. If you meet the criteria, you can play. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb1afe0c529230b/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-5-2-08.pdf?MOD=AJPERES%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb1afe0c529230b/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-5-2-08.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

140

<p>^^^^ in all honesty, that's an outlier that really doesn't count. the guy's white and he's a fullback. that makes the decision a little bit easier than let's say terrell pryor choosing between ohio state and princeton.</p>