<p>As far as diversity, I believe that going to college with people who earned their way there and worked to be there will yield the best educational experience. If that happens to be a student population that is diverse and international, then great. However, to judge an institution on "diversity" is a feel good, politically correct act. The bottom line is that many schools water down admission standards to reach diversity goals. Consequently, good students are passed by or offered less financial aid than lesser students, based solely on ethnicity and the school engages in racism. One can spin it anyway they want, but this is what it boils down to. So what if 90% of a college campus is white this year and 70% is black next? The student body should represent the applicant pool, not a quota. Now, if the school wants to market itself to niche group with it's own money, then so be it. One thing I will NEVER believe is that a diverse school is BETTER just because of it's diversity. This is garbage that society has pounded into our heads since grade school and there is no proof for it. Let me ask you this- do you really feel that students from diverse colleges do better in their career in the long run than students from colleges where there is a large percentage of white students. If your answer is "YES", then you would have to concede that students at the traditional "Black" colleges are doomed to washing dishes for 30 years after college. We all know that Howard University has an excellent academic reputation and pumps out leaders on a regular basis. Why is the diversity argument only made when the majority of students are white?</p>
<p>As far as critical thinking-, I agree 100%. This is the most important skill to be taken from any educational setting. The problem is that the academic system has fallen into a rut of convincing people that they can analyze arguments and be great "critical thinkers", without teaching them the skill set to do so. We disagree; however, in that I feel that in NO WAY would reduce the Student/Faculty ratio increase the number or quality of critical thinkers being pumped out of a school. I feel it is more about curricula and individual teaching style and even more so fro an innate ability and desire from the student to WANT to analyze arguments, problems and solutions. Too many academicians are wrapped up in pushing political points of view and berating people with alternate points of view to engage in critical thinking, never mind teach it. This will not change by shifting diversity numbers or increasing faculty size.</p>
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Let me ask you this- do you really feel that students from diverse colleges do better in their career in the long run than students from colleges where there is a large percentage of white students.
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<p>How would we know? There hasn't been even one generation of graduates from diverse colleges. Most elite college graduates over 50 years old attended schools that didn't even admit women, let alone blacks or latinos.</p>
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Too many academicians are wrapped up in pushing political points of view and berating people with alternate points of view to engage in critical thinking, never mind teach it.
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<p>Baloney. That's just Rush Limbaugh sound byte talk.</p>
<p>My daughter's college is widely considered to be excrutiatingly liberal. Two of the most popular professors on campus are Tim Burke and James Kurth. Burke is an African history professor who argues that the best thing the West could do for Africa is end ALL aid programs. Kurth is a respected expert on defense policy who routinely writes for conservative magazines. He has proposed pulling out of Iraq, but only after we have supported the Kurds and the Shia in a comprehensive crushing of the Iraqi Sunnis. He suggests that a protracted battle between Arab Sunni states and Shia states in Iran and Iraq would consume all of the Sunni funding for Bin Laden. Shia/Sunni strife would make the Arab world forget Israel and the United States in the same way that Kissinger drove a wedge between China and the Soviet Union to our benefit.</p>
<p>I hardly think that either of these positions are boilerplate "liberal".</p>
<p>To bring this mess back on topic:</p>
<p>I have no problem with the UFlorida prez wanting to bump his school's "ranking" up to the top-10 publics in the country.</p>
<p>However, saying that he wants to compete with Harvard is just plain silly. I think a state university trying to "be like Harvard" wouldn't be serving its home state population well at all. The vast majority of his 20,000 or 30,000 undergrads would be miserable at Harvard.</p>
<p>the big problem, imo, with this "large department store" vs. "small boutique" thing is this - people make the department store out to be walmart, and the boutique store to be barneys.</p>
<p>well, maybe some of you don't realize, but the elite large universities don't compare to walmart. take schools like michigan, berkeley, uva, wisconsin those schools are the saks, bergdorf, neimen marcus, nordstrums of larger research universities - not "walmarts". you can't compare them to big name schools (due to familiarity/sports) that arn't of the same quality - no offense - but for example a school like auburn university. sure its a familiar school, but you don't have on average the quality student body as you do at those other schools.</p>
<p>now can service maybe be more personalized at barneys than at bergdorf? probably, but the quality is just as good and the service isn't exactly shabby.</p>
<p>Most of us do not make the big state universities to be Walmart or all LACs to be Barneys.</p>
<p>I made the comparison for one reason and one reason only: because one poster claimed that large state universities such as UF are better known than even the highest-ranked LACs--as if name recognition was all that mattered. </p>
<p>No one on CC has ever denigrated any of the state universities listed in post 105, and in fact are big boosters of these schools. I include myself in the number.</p>
<p>Interested dad,</p>
<p>Thank you for answering my point with a token, anecdotal example of a conservative prof. However, the Facts are the facts- and here is one to prove my point - in the election of 2000, 80+% of ALL ivy league profs were registered dems. One who is taught to critically analyze arguments would know that anecdotal evidence is worthless when talking general trends. oh wait, it is't worthless because, by it's design, it removes people from the realm of logic and transports the argument into an emotional one, which, sadly is much more effective. Oh and the fact that YOU brought up rush Limbaugh without me EVER bringing up which point ov view proves that you already know which way academia is slanted. Oh and using your logic, Yale must be conservative as well as Harvard because GW Bush went to those schools.</p>
<p>i've taught at the University of South Florida as an adjunct, but don't take my word for it, look at the FACTS:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/poll.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/poll.htm</a></p>
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However, the Facts are the facts- and here is one to prove my point - in the election of 2000, 80+% of ALL ivy league profs were registered dems.
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<p>How could it be otherwise? Nationally, voters with advanced academic degrees tilt HEAVILY Democratic. In addition, I think you'll find that the states where the Ivy League schools are located tilt heavily Democratic as well.</p>
<p>Surely you are not suggesting a political registration litmus test and affirmative action for registered Republicans in the academic hiring process? A political litmus test would open up a serious can of worms.</p>
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Oh and using your logic, Yale must be conservative as well as Harvard because GW Bush went to those schools.
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<p>Is GW Bush a conservative? Semantics, aside....yes, both Yale and Harvard are well represented in the ranks of Republican political movers and shakers. For example, prominent Republican presidental hopeful Mitt Romney has degrees from both Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School.</p>
<p>Barrons- thanks for the article on Bartz, I enjoyed it- you redeemed yourself after so much on athletes.</p>
<p>I was responding to one broad smear on big time athletes and wanted to be highly factual. Many work very hard trying to do justice to both classes and the sport. It's more pressure than most of us could handle.</p>
<p>interested dad,
again with the anecdotal "evidence". the numbers are the numbers. Just because a school with 90% liberal profs and admins has a conservative alum or prof does not change the atmosphere 1 bit. I am not sure I see your point. if i took a test and filed it, I wouldn't run to the teacher and tell her "look, I did question # 2 right, therefore, I should pa the test". That would be the same logic you are using in stating that there is balance in academia imply because there are a few conservative alums or profs. It's amazing how someone who touts the importance of independent thought and critical thinking could use illogical arguments.</p>
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Interesteddad- do you have 1 shread of evidence that high diversity or lower S/F ratios improve the quality of education fr the student body as a whole?
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<p>He may not, but there is work done in this area. Psychologists have long theorized that the mind is more likely to expand and engage in higher-level thinking when it's pushed out of its normal patterns. Diversity on campus--in that it places students in an environment where people of different backgrounds and perspectives are sharing ideas--can create that kind of pushing.</p>
<p>Some research suggests that these theories are correct, and that more diversity on campus can lead to some enahnced learning outcomes along students, especially white students.</p>
<p>I'm not a psychologist so I'm doing a lousy job paraphrasing this line of work, but hopefully you get the gist. </p>
<p>It is true that colleges may do a bit of a disservice to students when they offer relatively little political diversity among their faculty. Fortunately, I think this is mitigated by the fact that college-age students are at a ripe age for self-expression and in my experience students--more diverse along the political spectrum--do a bang-up job exposing their peers to their political beliefs and ideas.</p>