<p>starkali - Looking at your hypothetical applicant who wasn’t accepted in year 1, and then improved his grades and test scores and was admitted in year 2, I disagree with the conclusion you draw that the school placed undue emphasis on academics and disregarded character.</p>
<p>In considering test scores and grades, the school is trying to weed out those students, otherwise qualified due to character and extracurricular pursuits, who would fail miserably if admitted due to an inability to keep up with their academic assignments. Unfortunately, although there might be other ways of assessing a student’s academic potential, test scores and grades are the most reliable and readily available predictor. Confronted with hundreds of candidates seeking admission, a school cannot be expected to make the individualized inquiries necessary to vet the candidates some other way. Recommendations, which are necessarily subjective, provide supplemental information, but cannot be expected to replace the basics: scores and grades.</p>
<p>Once the school has determined, based on those criteria, that a candidate has the ability to succeed academically, it is my belief that the schools most certainly do look at the character and related attributes of the students they ultimately decide to admit. They may sometimes get it wrong, of course, but I have no doubt they try.</p>
<p>So a denial does not necessarily mean that a candidate is any less qualified than another candidate who was admitted. What it does mean, though, is that the school did not have any readily available means to confirm that student’s qualifications.</p>
<p>I am a Relatively new poster and i am apologizing in advance for the rant! The trouble I have with the SSAT specifically ( especially as a gauge as to whether or not a student can “handle” the course work at a prep school) is :
material asked of 8th graders ( who are otherwise capable) could be as much as two years ahead of what that child may have been exposed to.
To offer a pseudo remedy that many on cc and even educators say " not to worry the 8th grader is compared to merely his or her own peers. ( this is a complete misrepresentation of what actually occurs) is unfair.
The solid public student in 8th grade will honestly take the exam getting, say 65% ( fairly decent) questions correct. What happens? That child is then scoring ( depending on the section) anywhere from the 45% in reading to the 65% in math.
what is worse is that 3 or 4 more questions correct in each section moves a student up approximately ( depending on section) 20%!<br>
So what we have is an exam, that has questions supposedly for tenth graders, being answered correctly by prepped foreign and private middle school students. These same students of course, will lament that “they went in cold or did not prepare” for the test. In many ways they are correct! It’s their schools that have been drilling them for the exam since fifth grade!
I am amazed that posters on cc actually referred to students getting the 50% as " stupid " or " less than smart" . More amazing is that many of the prep schools do not claim “foul” when seeing these exceptionally high number of correct questions on subject matter that should not have been covered by most eighth graders. The absolute number of questions correct to achieve a high percentile in 8th grade varies little as compared to a 10th grader! This alone should alert educators of the flaw in using this specific test (SSAT) as an instrument to evaluate a student for admission. The SAT does not in any way have the same flaw. This can be seen when one looks at the subsequent SAT scores compared to all the 88-99% SSAT scores those same students received . They do not correlate! The 88% in an SSAT would predict a 99% on the SAT across the board! The mean SAT scores for the elite boarding schools are easily attainable by good public school students! However , many of those good public school students four years earlier would have not scored the " stellar" percentile that those prepped students scored on the SSAT!<br>
The solution would be to administer an exam to 8th graders that ONLY tests to that level! The percentiles would be more meaningful ! If you performed poorly and were exposed to the material, well then that indicates you did not master the material! Putting advance material on an exam under the guise that you’ll be compared only to your peers, sets up for highly inaccurate and quite honestly unfair results.</p>
<p>@Oura54: …I understand you have some issues with standardized testing, particularly the SSAT. However, “The 88% in an SSAT would predict a 99% on the SAT across the board!”…really? I got a very high score on the SSAT and in no way would I ever expect to get a 99% on the SAT.</p>
<p>The SSAT is a LOT easier than the SAT. It’s indisputably true: the subject matter on the SSAT has/should/is covered in most public schools. There’s nothing on the SSAT that hasn’t been covered in school (and who says it has to have been anyway? it measures academic achievement, not how good your middle school was. My public school is practically useless on many levels. I learn surprisingly little.)</p>
<p>And Reading is a section I’m a bit “hazy” about, though, as well as Verbal. The vocab may not have been covered in schools…but they DON"T HAVE TO HAVE BEEN! I, personally found the SSAT leaning far toward the easier side, even though NONE of my public school teachers have taught me grammar of any kind. I don’t even really understand what an adverb is, and I scored high on the writing portion of the test.</p>
<p>That’s what reading books is for, something less and less people are doing nowadays. Plus, the prep schools are looking for an advanced vocabulary.</p>
<p>Finally, the top BS look for academic achievement, not how well you can retain information given by your middle school (or high school) teachers. They expect students to look for a challenge, to go “above-and-beyond.” </p>
<p>P.S. with all due respect, there’s a “new thread” button on the forum page. :)</p>
<p>Good luck! (and I’m not trying to be rude or anything. This is all what I, personally believe and have accepted as fact. However, feel free to tell me what your opinions are.)</p>
<p>No, this belongs here because many people cite poor SSAT scores as a reason for rejection or as, at the very least, an indicator of fit.</p>
<p>To Oura - </p>
<p>I personally know two kids who went to a very poor public school, did very little prep, and both scored over 90%tile with little effort. </p>
<p>Also, the ssat is not, and never claims to be, an achievement test. It is an aptitude test. Take the math section, for instance; it covers pretty basic concepts but in ways that most students may not be used to. The vocab section, likewise test many secondary definitions in the synonyms sections and the students ability to recognize subtle relationships between words rather than just their meanings. The reading section is pretty straightforward, but requires quick reading.</p>
<p>The problem that I have is that schools don’t seem to differentiate between the kids who go to private schools where ssat prep is a part of the curriculum and the kid in the rural school who is rarely even assigned a novel to read. </p>
<p>I don’t recall ever reading any poster calling someone with a median ssat score stupid.</p>
<p>One more point: The difficulty of the material on the ssat is nothing compared to what a student will be faced with at any of the schools discussed here. If a school has an average incoming ssat score of 90+, that means the the vast majority of the kids in the classes will have had no problem with the test (and the supposed 10th grade level of the material). In that respect, it is a reasonable indicator of fit.</p>
<p>starkali,
It goes w/o saying that you are a person of great character. But** it is your writing ability that really stands out**-- very eloquent and expressive! </p>
<p>With your learning disability, I am concerned whether a BS environment is the ideal setting to showcase and further develop your talent.</p>
<p>@starkali - You have a seriously awesome attitude! Your post definitely addressed some things and brought up a whole lot of other topics. I’m gonna miss ‘seeing’ you around CC, PM me and go on HSL!! :D</p>
<p>And, about the whole SSAT thing, I don’t think it should be the only thing that determines how academically successful you’ll be at boarding school. It’s probably more like a mix of SSAT + GPA + recs. AOs can’t base everything of one test that takes place on one day. The results are also, many times, skewed due to those ever-so-genius international applicants ( ). But, in reality, your grades aren’t dependent on how well everyone else does (as with the %ile), rather, it’s based on your tests/classwork/homework/etc. Also, teacher recommendations show how hardworking you are and what kind of attitude you have. No one wants a 99%ile kid who’s super rude or mean. For example, my SSAT was a mere 80%, really low for the three CHADES schools I was applying to, yet I was admitted into two and WLed at one. If the determination of my intelligence was based solely off the SSAT, I wouldn’t have gotten in. But, with my GPA and recs, it somehow worked. Just like numerous things (interviews, ECs, FA/FP, ORM v. URM/geography) go into the decision making, numerous things - I believe - go into predicting your ‘academic capability’ (SSAT, GPA, recs.) That being said, the SSAT isn’t the only factor IMO. :)</p>
<p>Whether you agree with the premise of the SSAT or not, the schools use it because they have found that it is a good predictor of academic success in their programs. Neatoburrito is right; it is an aptitude test, not an achievement test. In my family, the percentiles on the SSAT correlated almost exactly with the SAT a couple of years later. The good thing about college admissions, though, is that there are some schools that are SAT optional. I can think of several boarding schools in my area where students with SSATs in the teens and 20s might be successful. Williston Northampton, Wilbraham and Munson and Cheshire Academy all come to mind. Anyone want to add to the list?</p>
<p>@baystateresident But doesn’t one’s aptitude affect their level of achievement? Also, I’m not saying I disagree with the SSAT’s premises, but I disagree with the statement of “It’s the only thing that predicts one’s aptitude/achievement.” because I don’t think it is. :D</p>
<p>starkali, I am happy to discuss with you whatever questions you may have via PM. My son has an IEP. There is also a forum for Learning Disability on this site. There are many experienced parents on CC that can assist.</p>
<p>One recommendation I have is to learn to ignore any idiotic comments. There are some who think they know everything. There are just as many clueless, immature teens like one who responded to my post telling me to ignore myself, whatever that means.</p>
<p>Aubreygal- I don’t recall seeing anyone stating “It’s the only thing…” anywhere. Certainly though, schools find it to be predictive or they wouldn’t use it. I’m curious though, about how much prepping goes on in private middle schools (mine went to rural public)- anyone know? Also, anyone else care to add to the list of different schools? It might help next year’s applicants.</p>
<p>Ridley College in Canada does not require applicants to take the SSAT, but I think they still like to see test scores if they’re available. Regardless, Ridley is considered an academically challenging school. They are rolling out the IB program this coming fall. You can take IB classes and sit for the IB diploma, or just take a few IB classes, or you can take AP classes, or you can take standard classes. There is a range of academic rigor, but even the least rigorous classes would still be challenging.</p>
<p>Here’s a quote from an email I received from an AO at Ridley:</p>
<p>@baystateresident Neither do I, so I guess that means we’re all on the same page! hehe :)</p>
<p>And my private middle school doesn’t have any prepping or counselors available for this sort of thing, AT ALL. But, then again, it’s probably because of where I live.</p>
<p>Aubreygal- you’re going to be just fine at one of your choices with your scores. Are you going to revisit days? Mountainhiker- Ridley College sounds like a neat school! Any idea how many Americans go there?</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree how the SSAT is viewed. It is very easy and that’s my point… If your prepped in the “elite” private schools for three years you will surpass the child who was not! If the concepts that you all call easy are not taught to you then they are not so easy are they? Why nit place basic physics on the exam? How about basic trig? Once again you’ll have the prepared having an edge !<br>
What I am simply claiming is the obvious : the exam gives questions on topics not covered by every 8th grader under the guise of aptitude. Now the prepared ones, the children who have been familiarized with those " easy" topics in geometry can raise their percentiles over this who have not been exposed! That’s what you all call aptitude?<br>
I dare the examiners to place physics on the test in the name if aptitude and I bet all of you that the students from those schools which prepare their students to take the exam ( and of course deny they ever prepared) would some how ( aptitude? Come on) score those questions correct and hence raise their percentiles in the name of aptitude far higher than is the truly a measure of superior aptitude! Hence it really us an assessment test! And I agree, it really is easy, but only if the child is prepared !<br>
And yes the SAT is more difficult and far less iniquitous !</p>
<p>@Oura - Yes, but the SSAT is a test. What if I’m nervous that day? What if I don’t test well? What if I freak out because it’s the ominous SSAT? What if I didn’t have the resources to - no, not learn anything - but to be well-educated on test-taking strategies? I agree - the content of the test is easy, but the context of the actual test-taking . . . not so much.</p>
<p>@baystateresident - Thank you! And unfortunately, I can’t. :(</p>
<p>This is a thoughtful and at times heart-aching thread. </p>
<p>@starkali - the passion burning in you now is the great prize you earned from going through such a miserable process. Be defiant. Go tear down some walls.</p>
<p>@mountainhiker - your earlier post delivered a key point and excellent advice for future CC’ers: if you are an unhooked kid applying for FA, do not look for schools where your GPA/SSAT/EC is normal; look for schools where you would be at the top. Only then do you have a chance at the limited FA budget.</p>
<p>@oura: since when was physics on the exam? It wasn’t ANYWHERE.</p>
<p>Maybe on reading comprehension. But it’s called comprehension for a reason. They give you all the info on the page.</p>
<p>I didn’t go to any elite prep school. I went to a regular public school and did my best. And for me, that was enough. You’re right, the SSAT was relatively easy for me.</p>
<p>uh, yeah. The people who are in more advanced math and have learned more ARE indeed more adept and apt in those areas…dur…obviously…and there weren’t any hard geometry topics on the test either. Maybe figuring out the angles in a triangle. But really, you call that an advantage? I say it’s basic fact that a triangle has 3 sides and 180 degrees…</p>
<p>again, THERE WAS NO PHYSICS ON THE TEST!!!
…have you ever taken the SSAT?</p>
<p>I think if you have access to a couple of review books and such, you should do fine.</p>
<p>I was in Algebra 1, not super strong in math, and got a 90 on that section. You can do well with a limited knowledge. The stuff on the SSAT is designed to reach out to an Algebra 1/Geometry audience. If you have even the slightest idea of Geo concepts, you’ll be on a “level” playing field.</p>
<p>I guess it is a little unfair because I did have a tutor…I highly recommend getting a tutor if you have the funds. They give invaluable advice: tips, tricks, and everything in between. BUT I still know several kids who did fabulously in math who DIDN’T have a tutor, and were in the same classes as I.</p>
<p>I don’t suppose the regular k-12 private schools prep students for SSAT do they? The junior prep schools probably would, but there’s only a small number of junior prep students competing for boarding high school slots. I think in general most students will pick up a review book or two (like laughalittle posted ahead of me) from Amazon and prep by themselves, and that’s usually enough for them to have decent scores. Some (or few? -not anyone I know anyway) would actually hire a tutor for SSAT. It’s an easy test but it helps to know what level/areas of knowledge is covered in the test and get familiar with the test format.</p>
with all due respect, there’s a “new thread” button on the forum page. :)</p>
). But, in reality, your grades aren’t dependent on how well everyone else does (as with the %ile), rather, it’s based on your tests/classwork/homework/etc. Also, teacher recommendations show how hardworking you are and what kind of attitude you have. No one wants a 99%ile kid who’s super rude or mean. For example, my SSAT was a mere 80%, really low for the three CHADES schools I was applying to, yet I was admitted into two and WLed at one. If the determination of my intelligence was based solely off the SSAT, I wouldn’t have gotten in. But, with my GPA and recs, it somehow worked. Just like numerous things (interviews, ECs, FA/FP, ORM v. URM/geography) go into the decision making, numerous things - I believe - go into predicting your ‘academic capability’ (SSAT, GPA, recs.) That being said, the SSAT isn’t the only factor IMO. :)</p>