Quality of Engineering Programs at Various Schools

<p>My son is looking at a wide range of schools to study electrical engineering (although he also is potentially interested in computer science and applied mathematics). We're trying to narrow down the list to pick some schools to visit, but are having trouble figuring out the comparative strength of the engineering programs.</p>

<p>Could you rank the engineering programs at these schools:</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon
Cornell
Duke
UIUC
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Univ of PA
Princeton
Rice
Stanford
Tufts
Univ of TX
Vanderbilt
Washington U in St Louis</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>One thing to be aware of: as far as the courses and course material that the student will take in engineering, math and science to qualify for a degree, colleges offer more or less the same. The Accreditation Board of Engineering and Technology (ABET) approves programs colleges offer and the ABET generally follows a uniform process which sets out courses required and what needs to be taught in those courses. All those you list have accredited EE programs and thus all will be offering to teach essentially the same thing. Where programs differ is research facilities (and all you list are good in that category), and teaching style and how they deal with students, quality of professors, and opportunities to do research as an undergrad and those are often unmeasurable except by generalizations. For example, large universities are going to have large classes and the personal touch will be less than small tech colleges but then many students are more atune to and prefer the large university atmosphere. Large universities will also have more courses taught by teaching assistants than full professors, but that is not necessarily a bad factor because often the TA's are better teachers than some of the full professors. Put another way, every university will have a number of excellent teachers but then every one of them will also have lousy ones (and the lousy ones can often be the nationally regarded professors known for their research). Moreover, particularly in engineering, math and science, you will run into teachers from foreign countries who struggle with the English language and are thus often difficult to understand (in fact, you will find at virtually every university, some who are totally incomprehensible). At large universities you can often schedule around that problem because each course has more than one teacher.The thing is that all the ones you list will have both their plusses and minuses in those regards.</p>

<p>Some rely on USNews national rankings that would put Stanford, UIUC, Cornell, Carnegie, and Texas at the top of the ones you list for EE, but that does not really mean much, and all the ones you list are highly regarded. It is in fact difficult to say that any one college you list is any better than another in undergraduate EE. If I were to view the choice I would probably do it like this: you are from Texas, UTexas means in-state tuition that will be lower than the others listed and it has a nationally recognized engineering program. Thus, what if any justification is there to choose another over Texas? That decision ultimately depends on what do you like and can afford. I would probably immediately eliminate UIUC (which is actually one of my favorites being from Ill) from your list because to me it makes little sense to go to another state's public university and pay high tuition when you have an excellent public university where you are. You also have location factors. For example, any of the midwestern schools you list (UIUC, Northwestern, and Wash U) are going to be heavily occupied by students from the midwest with the Chicago area a major feeder and will be cold in winter. How well any particular Texan will like that area is unclear but it is a significant factor to consider. The same applies to those eastern schools, except that Vanderbilt and Duke are more southern in nature in both student population and weather. Additionally, I would question Hopkins and Penn because of their locations in questionable areas in their respective cities. Ultimately, my meanderings would likely lead to the following, particularly for visits: Texas as a top choice because it is excellent and much lower in cost than any of the others; Rice if it can be afforded because it is nearby (an easy visit), a great college; Stanford if you have a chance to get in because it is a national top college, has a campus envied by most, weather is agreeable year round, and its location is near a large number of employers who hire electrical engineering graduates; I would then probably consider an "eastern" trip to Princeton, Duke and Vanderbilt, the latter two because they are still southern schools in excellent locations, and Princeton, because, like Stanford, is considered by most to be at the top of everything. The rest would be in the category of visit if you just have to find out if it is a possibility to consider. Also note that I would probably make some additions to the list you have. Virtually all the schools you list cannot be considered "safeties" for anyone because of low admission rates. Texas is an exception as long as your son is in the top 10% of his class, which guarantees admision, but be aware that does not necessarily guarantee admission to engineering and thus it still is not a lock as a safety. He may need on his list one or two schools that would be virtual certainties for admission to engineering, if he is top 10%, like Texas A&M.</p>

<p>They are all fine schools. The way I would narrow them down is not by rankings, but by fit. Does he want a big school or a small school? A school far from home or one close? Does he want a school in the city or one more in a college town?</p>

<p>Ok, my veiw here. (I looked at many of those schools and picked one not on there.. ). I also go to a school which is not accreditated yet. But Im crazy.. so thats another topic. ABET is not the be all and end all, its just a nice perk. </p>

<p>Duke- I loved duke, it was southern, warm, good school, good engineering dept, and good over all. the only thing i didnt like was the whole the freshmen were on a different campus part.
Rice- LOVE LOVE LOVE. Small school, great profs, great campus, great location, great enviroment, work hard, play hard. Bad Waitlist.
Univ of TX- Liked it, it was just too big for me.
Vanderbilt- Another southern engineering school, strong school but I dont know much about them since it was a safety for me. </p>

<p>and now Ill add in one plug for my school Olin. just look, its worth a shot.</p>

<p>Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.</p>

<p>Yes, Univ of TX is a great option for engineering. My son goes to a private school that doesn't rank, but I recently found out from his counselor that the school will rank solely for those who are in the top 10% to automatically get into UT. Since he is in the top 10%, it looks like that could be his safety (although drubsa is correct -- that means he'll be admitted, but not necessarily in engineering). That's why we were also looking at UIUC. He is definitely NOT an A&M kind of kid (too cult-like for him). Another school that had been on his list as a safety (or safe match) was Tulane, but that got nixed due to their engineering cuts.</p>

<p>My son thinks weather and geographical location are not a factor for him (although he does not want to be in a rural area). He would like the school to be easily accessible by air at least. He prefers mid-sized schools to small schools and enormous schools (like UT). That said, I don't know how he'd fare in extended winter weather. He's never really experienced it; for example, it has been sunny and in the 70's every day except one for the past 3 weeks here. I think the weather at Duke will be a shock.</p>

<p>We've already visited Wash U and Tufts -- he liked the feel of both. We'll try to visit some east coast schools over Spring Break (probably Penn, Hopkins, Princeton and CMU) and then we'll see if we can take some short trips between then and next fall to see Duke, Vandy and Stanford. He did a summer program at Northwestern so he's seen the campus, but of course, that was in the summer. Cornell is a little bit more difficult to get to, but he seemed really interested in it from their info session.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your replies. If anyone else has some other thoughts, it would be most welcome.</p>

<p>Oh, and Rice is still a great option. It might be a little close for him, though, since we live 10 minutes away. It's a great school and a good value.</p>

<p>How'd I miss that you were from houston? dur.
I was from a non ranking private school in Dallas and they also did the whole only rank for A&M and UT. We never saw the rank, no one else but the colleges and the people who did the ranking saw it. if he likes small (wel, tiny really) schools look at olin. I know a lot of other kids from the Texas Private School Cult (TM) love it up here in the north, so we're living proof that Texans can handle it. We have a Fort Worth Country Day girl, Cistercian guy, St Johns Kid, Ursline Girl, and a Hockaday Girl. (I think thats all of us.... but I really think Im leaving 4 or 5 I know we have two other kids from Tiny Houston Private schools, I just cant think of their names). Kim though has at least three blankets on her bed at any time acording to her roommate, and their heat is wayyy up. I've been been debating putting a palm tree in. </p>

<p>I was amazed at how well I am handeling winter, I just end up putting on a few more layers than friends and smiling when they laugh at me for being the Texan. I have found windows where I can soak up sun during the winter, and found those very usefull when the sun sets earlier than should be allowed. Fleece is my best friend, and so are layers. I normally have a base of long underwear, then a shirt, then a fleace, and sometimes a coat. I highly recomend the ones that have the shell systems, where you take layers in and out.
I've also learned that the ice scrapers they sell in texas are not worth anything. Normally i giveup and scrape snow off my car with my arm.</p>

<p>
[quote]
All those you list have accredited EE programs and thus all will be offering to teach essentially the same thing. Where programs differ is research facilities (and all you list are good in that category), and teaching style and how they deal with students, quality of professors, and opportunities to do research as an undergrad and those are often unmeasurable except by generalizations.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree with the above.<br>
At Northwestern, another thing that is unique is the "engineering first" curriculum. <a href="http://www.mccormick.northwestern.edu/efirst/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mccormick.northwestern.edu/efirst/&lt;/a>
You may want to do some research on that. The school has the oldest co-op program in the country; it should be as good as almost anybody in that area.</p>

<p>I'm a junior studying EE at Northwestern. The research activities here seem to be top-notch but the professors are not exactly enthusiastic about teaching. But I guess it's more or less the same at every research university. As of the engineering-first curriculum, I think it's still very immature and needs a lot of improvement. Personally, I'd prefer separate courses in physics, computer science, and differential equations than combining them altogether in the EA sequence.</p>

<p>Of all the schools on your list, I think the following schools stand out more (not in any order).</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon
Cornell
UIUC
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Princeton
Rice
Stanford</p>

<p>nurulz,</p>

<p>I have read positive things about <em>engineering first</em> from articles like <a href="http://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/northwestern/spring2000/spring00engineeringSide2.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/northwestern/spring2000/spring00engineeringSide2.htm&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.northwestern.edu/observer/issues/2005/09/21/ford.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.northwestern.edu/observer/issues/2005/09/21/ford.html&lt;/a>
However, I have not seen anyone who actually had first hand experience wrote about it on CC. Perhaps you can elaborate what you feel about that program? </p>

<p>I can imagine it could seem disjoint and confusing to some people especially at the begineering because it's multidisciplinary. I also figure how many people would prefer separate courses in physics, computer science, and differential equations simply because that's the way we are all used to and more comfortable with. </p>

<p>However, as one who took separate courses instead of EA, I can tell you most of us forget most of the materials in physics and differential equations by, say, junior year. I think it has a lot to do with them being taken in manner disconnected from engineering perspective and not applied after the course is over. Many of us would forget C due to lack of further practice and usage afterward. However, I imagine after 4 quarters of EA, most of you guys, if not all, are pretty proficient in writing a matlab program to solve engineering problems. From what I read, EA integrates concepts from several subjects and asks one to apply them on practical problems. That, I believe, can help reinforce one's understanding and retain what he/she learns more in the long run.</p>

<p>CMU,stanford,cornell and Rice.princeton takes a liberal art view to engineering.</p>

<p>Retheem -- could you explain what you mean about Princeton taking a liberal arts approach to engineering? I know it's the only university on this list to which you don't apply to the School of Engineering. How does the curriculum differ?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

<p>You don't apply to the school of engineering at Stanford.</p>

<p>UIUC can be tricky depending on the area that you apply for. Electrical Engineering is the third hardest program to get into at Champaign. And you don't get to specify a second choice--you are either accepted into the program you apply to or you aren't accepted at all.</p>