Question & a Chance :).

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

<p>Alright, so I'm sort of confused about how Berkeley admits transfer applicants.</p>

<p>Basically my situation is this:</p>

<p>I applied to Cal as a Phil major because I didn't have the pre-reqs for Psych (my greatest interest) completed. Ideally, I want to be a Psych major while also fulfilling premed requirements.....or possibly a double major, but that may be too much. I aspire to be a child psychiatrist. </p>

<p>I was told that Cal admits by department and not directly into a major until the admitted student completes their fall semester. Is this true? If so, I was wondering that since Psych and Phil are both in the College of L&S, that perhaps I could use this spring, summer 2010, and fall 2010 to finish up the Psych requirements and then enter the spring of 2011 as a Psych major.</p>

<p>I know that Phil is in the Arts & Humanities Dept. and that Psych is in the Social Sciences Dept, but both are in the College of L&S. Is it possible to switch from phil to psych before spring 2011 if I finish the remaining requirements?</p>

<p>Also, a quick chance would be great :).</p>

<p>CCC transfer.
3.57 UC trans. GPA
3.63 overall GPA
Philosophy major (applied) wrote about how I intend to double major in my essays.
200 hours volunteering at elderly assisted living center and tutoring kids.
essays are good.
upward trend is very good.</p>

<p>(Spring 08 - D, F (AR), F (AR); Fall 09 - B, B, A; Spring 09 - B, B, A; Summer 09 - A, A, B; Fall 09 - A, A, A, A, A, A)</p>

<p>I explained my abhorrent first semester in my second personal statement. </p>

<p>I go to a northern California CC (don't know if that helps at all). </p>

<p>Also have TAG's to Davis/UCSD. and applied to UCLA psychology.</p>

2

<p>it is true that they admit by department. There is like a 1% or less chance of you switching into psych, it is hat UCB calls a “capped major” which pretty much means HIGHLY impacted. and u have 0% of switching cuz to even be considered u need to all the pre-reqs for the major done. </p>

<p>you have a pretty good chance of getting in as philosophy major, but damn theres so many phil majors on here this year.</p>

3

<p>I agree there’s a lot of phil majors on here. I think that has to do with the nature of phil majors or atleast that is what I hope.</p>

4

<p>LOL i think ppl are tryna go for philosophy to get in the eay way hahaha, and itd be sooooo funny if philosophy became impaced this year, cuz so many ppl were tryna cheat the system.</p>

5

<p>haha CalBearGuy, that would be pretty hilarious if Philosophy were to become impacted. Honestly I wasn’t even going to apply to Cal because I didn’t have the pre-reqs done for Psych and my GPA is just okay. However, when I saw that Cal accepts ~ 45% of Philosophy majors, that my GPA was competitive, and that my CC articulates a whopping 0 Philosophy classes to Cal, I figured why not lol. </p>

<p>I have a feeling that a lot of people are probably just applying to have an extra option like myself. If I were to get in to UCLA Psych, I would choose that over Cal Philosophy. </p>

<p>btw I’m unclear on this: How strong is Cal’s Philosophy department? Prestigious? Not so much? Thanks for all the help.</p>

6

<p>Cal actually has a really strong philosophy program…haha if you were just applying to Cal as a filler, you shoulda applied as a Rhetoric major, no articualted pre-reqs (for most CCCs)</p>

7

<p>as a legitimate philosophy major, I hope it doesn’t become impacted because of people trying to cheat the system!!!</p>

<p>And as for Cal Philosophy, undergrad departments sync up pretty closely to the grad departments, and Cal’s grad department is ranked #10 nationwide. philosophicalgourmet.com</p>

<p>But philosophy students are usually better off in smaller classes, with better teacher-student relationships due to the nature of the class contents. So if you’re actually looking for the best philosophy education, you should either consider UCD or UCSC who both have strong, smaller departments, or be very careful at Cal when selecting your classes/profs. A lot of Cal profs have the reputation of being “elitists,” which translates to being very removed from their students. So don’t just assume that since Cal’s department is great, you can just sign up for whatever and get the best education.</p>

8

<p>LOLL, u never know, i only brought that up, cuz i know quite a few philosophy majors who dont want to do philosophy, but major in it anyway becuz there is only 1 pre-req articulated, and it has a high acceptance rate, with a “low” avg GPA.</p>

9

<p>there’s actually 3 pre-reqs, but they’re rarely offered at the CCCs, especially in these budget cuts. My CCC hasn’t offered any of them since like 2004. I’m going to take care of all 3 at Cal’s summer session if I can’t get into any of them this spring via concurrent enrollment. you know, set my app ahead of all the other philosophy majors by actually taking a few philosophy classes lol.</p>

10

<p>

</p>

<p>sorry, no.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>discussion sections are smaller, more personal and incredibly helpful classes in which material is addressed far more leisurely than in lecture. in any event, when it comes to an education in philosophy, you should consider lecture / discussion as supplemental to the readings – your primary tools for learning – and not the other way around.</p></li>
<li><p>office hours with professors and TAs are generally (i.e., when it isn’t finals) uncrowded and last long enough for you to get your questions answered, face-to-face with the guys who quite literally wrote (or will write) the books in their fields of study… if you want the biggest bang for your buck, discern your interests before hand, research the departments and go with the best, not the babysitters.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>further, your TAs are the ones who will actually grade your papers / tests (for the most part). in my limited experience, they’re incredibly easy to get ahold of, eager to see you succeed and are totally willing to talk with you about really anything, for as long as you have patience. however, if you’re that bumbling idiot who constantly interjects in class / discussion / ****ing life with mostly-irrelevant driveled musings, don’t be surprised when you’re not extended the courtesy. </p>

<ol>
<li>a man’s self image guarantees nothing of any impact on his abilities to teach, explain, articulate, understand, interact with or otherwise. assuming him to be objective and fair in his assessments, whether you believe a professor to be elitist/arrogant/pretentious/egocentric or if, in fact, he is, is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. </li>
</ol>

<p>as a legitimate philosopher, you shouldn’t say things that don’t hold their own weight.</p>

11

<p>Sorry my statement came out wrong. What I was trying to say that just because one department is ranked higher than another, doesn’t mean that any student will automatically get a better education there. So I have to disagree that “if you want the biggest bang for your buck, discern your interests before hand, research the departments and go with the best, not the babysitters.” If you want the biggest bang for your buck, discern your interests? Um, ok. </p>

<p>For some reason, I didn’t finish my original thought: UCD and UCSC are examples of very strong, smaller philosophy departments, so if you’re a student that does better in those situations, consider those as well as Cal. And you can’t ignore that Cal has a reputation for having considerably more arrogant professors. This isn’t my opinion, it’s what I’ve heard many times. The advice given to me was that if I thought that this would be a serious hindrance in my education, I should research and choose wisely when selecting my courses, or consider a smaller school where this was less of an issue. Just passing along the advice.</p>

<p>I’ve also heard that this is less of an in the philosophy department than other departments. Your comments on the office hours and the discussion sections reaffirm this. </p>

<p>As for your comment, “the guys who quite literally wrote (or will write) the books in their fields of study,” I’m not sure what you were implying. Many of my CCC professors have written books in their fields. Same goes for our neighboring CSU. </p>

<p>I’m not sure how the other UCs are with TAs, as in professor : TA workload for the courses. I have a few friends who have taken philosophy courses at the CSUs who say that the TAs input in a class is pretty limited. At the CCC, almost entirely nonexistent. To me, it’s more comforting to have a PhD grading my work and answering my questions than a grad student. However, knowing how well revered Cal’s grad department is reassuring.</p>

<p>“in any event, when it comes to an education in philosophy, you should consider lecture / discussion as supplemental to the readings – your primary tools for learning – and not the other way around.” ah, yes, the readings are your primary tools for LEARNING philosophy. However, I think that the discussion sections, as well as study groups, office hours, etc., shouldn’t be considered supplemental to the readings for DOING philosophy. </p>

<p>That all being said, I’ve researched all of the UCs and Cal is my top pick.</p>

12

<p>i thought i was pretty clear, but i’ll try again:
arrogance does NOT directly impede upon a professor’s ability to teach. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>i’ll appeal to analogy: stanley kubrick, paul thomas anderson and quentin tarantino make films. also, lifetime network directors make films… but the two aren’t quite the same, are they… </p>

<p>regarding your confusion about the word ‘discern’:
verb (used without object) – to distinguish or discriminate.</p>

<p>regarding TAs:
they actually teach discussion classes. there’s a lesson plan… we take notes… they lecture… their ‘input’ is anything but limited.</p>

<p>regarding your questions about the material:
you have the option of going with them to BOTH your professors and your TAs. to repeat myself, office hours allow for personal attention to be given to your specific questions, in a small, personal room, sitting face-to-face with your prof / TA.</p>

<p>regarding grading:
you should relish the fact that TAs and not professors are grading your work, and i don’t think it’s necessary to explain why.</p>

<p>regarding that last paragraph you wrote:
i’m not sure what you mean by ‘doing’ philosophy… or what you think happens in section / office hours… </p>

<p>any questions?</p>

13

<p>Anyways, back onto the main question</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, that is true. During CalSO, you are able to switch intended majors within your department. There were many people who switched from Economics to Poli Sci, and etc. You don’t officially declare your major until you have all the requirements done… and in most cases - no one has all of them done until after finishing their first semester. I was able to declare at CalSO because there were less requirements.</p>

<p>Oh and by the way, Philosophy at Berkeley is NOT the weak major. Not going to lie, that ***** is hella confusing. I have mad props for philosophy majors in general.</p>

14

<p>CalBearGuy, you say that I have basically no chance of switching and becoming a Psych major even if I finish all the pre-reqs by fall 2010, so I’m wondering if it’s more possible for me to double major or minor in Psychology.</p>

<p>Chibi, Arts & Sciences and Humanities are different departments though. Thus, that would pretty much negate my chances of switching into Psychology from Philosophy, right? </p>

<p>I have no problem majoring in Philosophy, I do really enjoy it, and I wouldn’t consider myself to be an “illegitimate Phil major” lol. I would just like to take as much of Cal Psychology as possible while also fulfilling the premed requirements. I suppose my question is more like this: How could I best take as much Psychology as possible at Cal even though I applied as a Philosophy major? Switch majors? Double major (if possible?) or minor in Psych?</p>

<p>Thanks for all the help.</p>

15

<p>One more thing, I just checked out philosophicalgourmet.com and came upon this page:</p>

<p>[UC</a> Berkeley - Department of Philosophy](<a href=“http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/undergraduate/overview]UC”>UC Berkeley - Department of Philosophy)</p>

<p>On that page it says that 12 courses are required to major in philosophy. I’m sorry for sounding so ignorant about all of this, but as a transfer student, none of my CC classes articulate for the Phil major. Does this mean I will have to complete all 12 at Cal if I were to be accepted? I have taken 2 phil classes at my CC and have IGETC completed.</p>

<p>Also, on the link above, it mentions that to major in Philosophy I will have to take 2 History courses. I’m not completely opposed to history by any means, but it isn’t my best subject and I would prefer avoiding history if at all possible. Is this impossible as a Philosophy major?</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>My bad, I meant colleges. We are all in the College of Letters and Science, so as a result, you can easily switch between each of them depending on whether you meet the requirements or not.</p>

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<p>@emilsinclair- I’m pretty sure those are still philosophy courses, but could someone clarify? and yeah, none of my CC classes articulate for the major requirements either (and I’ve taken 4 lol). It sucks, but I like to think that when I do start taking the required courses, my workload will be easier/lighter. And I’m definitely taking advantage of the summer sessions, which it looks like you’ll have to do too if you want to double major.</p>

<p>@pinkerfloyd- regarding arrogance-
there is certainly a correlation between the engagement of a professor and the quality of a professor. The students who thrive most in class will do better with an engaged professor than a disengaged one. </p>

<p>regarding your analogy-
it’s not only weak, it’s insulting. The only thing I can take from it is that Cal’s phil department either clearly sucks because you still don’t know how to properly make an analogical argument, or is so arrogant that its students are under the assumption that quality can only come from a brand name. For the first time, I understand all of these accusations of the “liberal elite” in universities. </p>

<p>regarding your inappropriate use of the word “discern”-
discern (used with an object…since your original use had an object)- to come to know or recognize mentally.
isolated, “discern your interests” = “come to know your interests.” So either,
a) one should come to know their interests, and then disregard them in order to get the biggest bang for their buck at the best department, as seen by the masses, or
b) one should come to know their interests, and choose the best department in accordance to them, which supports my original statement that that’s not necessarily at Cal. It also contradicts your implications that Cal is the “Stanley Kubrick” of phil, and therefore automatically the biggest bang for your buck, regardless of your interests.</p>

<p>regarding TAs-
cool. since, you know, I wasn’t arguing with you on what you said before, just commenting that TAs serve a different purpose at different types of colleges. so thanks for restating your point, albeit condescendingly.</p>

<p>regarding my questions about the material-
again, unnecessary to repeat yourself, but cool. nice to know you’ve had a good experience with the TAs and professors.</p>

<p>regarding grading-
please do explain why. I’m assuming that you’re implying that the TAs are easier? I’d rather a PhD return a C paper with feedback so I can improve it, than a TA give me an A and say “great job.” I’ll take back this blanket statement regarding the nature of PhDs and TAs if you clarify why I should relish the fact the TAs are grading. </p>

<p>regarding the last paragraph I wrote-
There’s a difference between learning what Aristotle or Kant had to say and actually applying the reasoning skills you develop to your own writing. For me, discussions and office hours have been essential to my own philosophical thinking. I’m not studying philosophy so I can spit out quotes from the Analects on cue like a daily inspirational calendar; I’m studying so I can hold my own when arguing with irrational people like you.</p>

<p>Any questions?</p>

18

<p>a few closing remarks:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>i can see now that no matter what is said, you’ll continue to amend your propositions, playing with minutia and misdirection until they’re safely distanced from whatever criticism i can offer. you tried, and that’s fine… trying is great… but when push comes to shove, despite your red herrings, you’re just speculating - you haven’t had the exposure required to talk about this **** in the first place… let alone, so ostentatiously. </p></li>
<li><p>i go to UCLA (where the phil department is right on par with Cal’s).</p></li>
<li><p>there was nothing wrong with my use of the word ‘discern’.</p></li>
</ol>

19

<p>Cantabilen, if I’m accepted to Cal I will absolutely be taking the summer session. Whether I intend to double major or not, I’ll still take classes over the summer because I need to fulfill pretty much all of my premed requirements in two years. There’s no way I could graduate in two years if I didn’t take advantage of all time I have. I hope we’ll have a class over the summer. That would certainly be interesting.</p>

<p>Anyways, just to clarify, and I’m very sorry for the being redundant, but I’ve heard two completely different answers to my question. One says that I can switch into Psychology because both Phil and Psych are in the College of L&S as long as I have the prereqs done by the end of fall 2010. Another says that since Psych is capped I will have basically no chance. </p>

<p>I think this is important: I will not declare for my major until the end of fall 2010. Thus, although I applied as a Phil major, couldn’t I just fulfill Cal Psych pre-reqs over summer/fall of 2010 and then enter in as a Psych major? The only factor setting me apart from the original Psych applicants will be the fact that I put Phil on my application instead of Psych. Any clarification, input or advice would be great.</p>

20

<p>You won’t declare your major till the end of fall 2010? If you’re admitted as a phil major, aren’t you automatically a phil major when you begin in the fall, or am I missing something?</p>

<p>I know that for transfers, it’s really hard to switch once you’re admitted. I don’t know if since psych is capped it’s even harder, but I do remember reading somewhere that since we’ve got 2 years to complete the major and upper division electives requirements, they don’t like transfers to try to switch.</p>

<p>And if you decide to take a phil class this summer, tell me because I think I’m taking all 3 of the lower devision requirements!</p>