<p>The 20 page research paper I completed this semester at Cal will serve as a basis for an independent study and research course in the fall with my current professor. From that research I will develop my topic into the basis for my senior honors thesis in history.</p>
<p>Isn't twenty pages ridiculously short for a history paper? I mean, if you're a witty genius, a math/science paper might be that short, but history? My high school assignments were longer than that.</p>
<p>I'd agree with the NFL comment, as long as you mean National Forensics League. :D</p>
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Isn't twenty pages ridiculously short for a history paper?
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<p>Any undergraduate paper longer than 20 pages would be vastly improved by being shortened to 20 pages.</p>
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My high school assignments were longer than that
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<p>Lol, I would love to see one of those 20 page, high school written, papers.</p>
<p>How much of an overachiever were you in high school? The only time I came up with 20 pages was for a group project and that was well above the rest of the class</p>
<p>Logos, there is a difference between a high school and lower-division history paper compared to an upper division one. It comes down to the focus of the question being answered. Writing a paper on a broad topic is quite easy to do and allows for a lot of 'fluff' content. For example, a high school/lower division paper might answer the question: "What were the causes leading up to the first world war and what effect did they have on post-war europe?"</p>
<p>An example of a question that would be posed in an upper-division paper would be: (and this comes from the question I developed): "What was the Thatcher government's response to the prisoner protest movement in Maze Prison, Northern Ireland as a result of the criminalization policy enacted in 1976? Did the protests have the effect of altering governmental attitude and policy regarding special category prisoners?" </p>
<p>The idea of a research paper is not about showing that you can write volumes on a topic. It is to show that you can work with a clear definition of your subject and produce a paper that gets your point across without being overwritten or padded with useless information. It is a training exercise to prepare a future historian for writing their honors thesis and, eventually, their dissertation.</p>
<p>Ignoring your condescending tirade assuming singular, supreme knowledge of the constitution of a serious paper--I forgot how obnoxious smilies are on this forum, so I ought to apologize anyways for a statement that might have been taken as offensive and worthy of instigating such a harsh response.</p>
<p>This is not to say that I retract my original statement. Writing 20 pages is undoubtedly a cakewalk; noting length does not provide any meaningful standard for measuring merit. Look at Milnor's books--Morse Theory is short, sweet, and a renowned piece of exposition. Writing something short and worthwhile is a monumental feat.</p>
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That's not quite true. In said class, a teacher might pose said question and students wouldn't do justice to answering it because of the exact faults mentioned. Ideally, the professor poses a question that does not limit the resolution too narrowly, or place undue value premises upon the resolution. </p>
<p>I doubt any lower-division or even high school teacher would dare give a broad question forcing irresolution onto students, e.g., in the case of your intended statement meaning "What effected WWI, and how was Europe affected by WWI?", at least. However, if you meant "What effected WWI, and how did these stimuli affect post-WWI Europe?", then there are very interesting papers involving monetary economics and the Bank of England. Questions need not be needlessly grouped into "high school level" or "lower-level" as the scope of the resolutions is often mostly up to the writer.</p>
<p>Ideally, all the contentions brought up in a paper will be universally accepted, but realistically, one must account for some contentions just not working out while maintaining the structural framework of the paper. This can sometimes mean a longer paper.
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An example of a question that would be posed in an upper-division paper would be: (and this comes from the question I developed): "What was the Thatcher government's response to the prisoner protest movement in Maze Prison, Northern Ireland as a result of the criminalization policy enacted in 1976? Did the protests have the effect of altering governmental attitude and policy regarding special category prisoners?"
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<p>As you likely know, part of the merit of broad questions lies in the admission of very specific papers whose structure is allowed by the question, i.e., not limited by the scope of the resolution. Some abuse this and churn out fluffy papers--later to be shredded and made into fluffy paper mach</p>
<p>I don't know about you, Logos, but my high school had an API of ~1, which translated into the kind of questions CalBear2009 mentioned. </p>
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I doubt any lower-division or even high school teacher would dare give a broad question forcing irresolution onto students
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<p>See above ^</p>
<p>I remember those 5-paragraph essay, taught in high school by my English teachers (I still have handouts explaining how to write an intro, 3 reasons of support for my thesis, and a conclusion). My college professors had the task of 'rewiring' the student's mind to go from a recipe-following essay to a critical/analytical essay.</p>
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I kind of doubt that people who write fluffy papers get into undergraduate so easily.
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<p>Where did you get accepted, again?</p>
<p>It's a common complaint along transfer students that their community college instructors did not teach them how to write "with a clear definition of [their] subject and produce a paper that gets [their] point across without being overwritten or padded with useless information." </p>
<p>Trust me-- these students do get accepted into undergrad and often struggle during their first semester.</p>
<p>I am terrified. I feel woefully unprepared...</p>
<p>I can't believe how many CC professors do not require papers. I can give several examples of classes in which I assumed I would have to write at least one piddly 5-10 page research paper, but...nothing. Women's History, Political Science, Anthropology of Latin America, Economics. It seems as though all of these classes should have assigned one research paper. </p>
<p>How helpful or useless are those transfer student seminars given by the transfer, re-entry, parent student center?</p>
<p>Oops... I didn't mean to scare people. Although I struggled a little bit in the beginning of my first semester, I did fine because I worked closely with Professors and GSIs in improving my writing style. A little bit of struggle can be a good thing because it forces us to improve.</p>
<p>In most cases, I think you would be better off speaking directly with your professors/GSIs instead of depending on the transfer seminars for advice. After all, they are the ones who will be grading your papers.</p>
<p>Logos, from which HS did you graduate from again?</p>
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I did fine because I worked closely with Professors and GSIs in improving my writing style.
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<p>Yet another brilliant piece of advice. Office hours are there for a reason. Just plan ahead, prepare your draft paper well in advance, so there's enough time to get help with it.</p>
<p>karabear1: I was scared before reading your posts in this thread, so no worries on your part.</p>
<p>I took a class at the beginning of my CCC "career" which was similar to those seminars given by the TRSP center, and while I did learn at least one new skill (how to use the library website), I felt more like I was at a self-help or psychological counseling session than anything.</p>
<p>I would agree. I took the reentry student class during my first semester at Berkeley and all we did was talk about our feelings. It was pretty useless.</p>
<p>It's also important to remember that at most UCs, it is the grad student TAs who are going to be grading your papers. So you want to talk with them about what THEY expect. One may expect you to take a strong stand in the paper, another may be more interested in your demonstrating command of the subject matter. You should discuss it with them specifically, before preparing your draft and after.</p>