<p>I've been "lurking" this board for a couple of weeks now and it seems very informative and pretty popular, so I was hoping I could get an answer to a very important question, or maybe questionS, I have for you knowledgeable members.</p>
<p>First, just a little background. I am in Ontario, Canada, about an hour away from the Toronto area. I'm a pretty good student, who has averaged just under 85% from Grades 9 through 11. I'm just starting Grade 12, and probably going to buckle down some more to get high 80s or maybe even low 90s this semester, hopefully for the whole year, but semester 1 is more important I'm assuming with the college deadlines and such. I've registered for the SAT after thinking through it for over a year now, since I'm a big America fan, love football, love baseball, and dream to become an American citizen eventually and reside there. I have somewhat narrowed down my Canadian schools list and American schools list but still have to narrow it further to where I will apply, although it will likely depend on my marks, and SAT score for the U.S. schools.</p>
<p>My question is... since I am not really even thinking about the Ivy league schools and such, how valuable is a degree from a less prestigious US university (I don't mean Tier 4 schools, I'm thinking FSU, Texas A&M, Montana, etc.)? and how does it compare to a Canadian degree (4 year undergrad likely)? I have all kinds of questions actually that merge off of this one question, but I'm not sure how to get them all out, and this would at least get me started. Such as, since I am a Canadian citizen, I probably would not be able to work in America as soon as I graduated, since I don't have American citizenship, or would I be able to get that citizenship? and what are the chances of that? Another big question I have, since I have a feeling the answer to the previous question will be no :( ...is what kind of reputation does a US degree have in Canada? As reputable/More reputable/Less reputable/CAN'T GET A JOB reputable? I know some of the extra money I'd be paying to go to the U.S school is also worth that 4 year experience, but first and foremost is my concern about THE FUTURE. I'm looking at University of Toronto, York, Western Ontario, and maybe Queen's just in case that helps anybody out for comparisons.</p>
<p>U of T, McGill, Queens, UBC are basically on par in terms of education with Ivy's. Worldwide I would drop Queen's from that list in terms of recognition (and I went to Queen's).</p>
<p>The thing with going to an american university in terms of job opportunities later - it really depensd on what you want to study. As a canadian you may qualify for a TN visa which is a visa offered to citizens who countries participate in NAFTA (ie Canada, Mexico and the states). There are some common and uncommon jobs on the list. If your job is on the list (examples include lawyer and graphic designer) then you can apply for a job in the states freely and get a visa at the border (or mail) if you have your offer of employment (the visa costs $50USD) and is renewable on a one year basis for an indefinate period of time (though lately they have been clamping down a bit and some people have gotten 9 years off their TN and some only 4). There is a possibility of transferring over to a greencard from a TN via a HN-1 (or HN-2? I can't remember) but it's complicated and I've already blabbered on enough.</p>
<p>Also, you can make connections in an american uni either with your profs or via recruitment fairs that may aid your quest to work in the states. For example, I would love to intern on the Hill or in DC in general, which is a lot more difficult to do from a cdn university. it just depends. Sorry for my long post!</p>
<p>I'm assuming that the cost for an American university is "out-of-state" for Canadians, and maybe a bit more depending on the school? Or is it waaay more somehow and I'm just totally blind?</p>
<p>Is the SAT helpful in any way for a Canadian student applying to a Canadian university? Will they look at that and consider it if you send it in as well?</p>
<p>Yes out of state is the cost for intel's. Some university's may have seperate intel. prices but none spring to mind.</p>
<p>No, canadian uni's do not look at your SAT scores if you are Canadian. I've never had them do this because I don't bother paying to send them my scores. I haven't found it necessary.</p>
<p>U of T, McGill, Queens, UBC are not on par with ivy's IMHO - top state schools maybe (UVA, Michigan) and some good privates (Gtown, Tufts) but not the Ivy's. The student bodies are not comparable based on selectivity alone.</p>
<p>U of T has 70,000 students. I rest my case.</p>
<p>not ivy league, no. i'd say wealthofinformation is right...they compare very well with 2nd tier schools like georgetown, tufts, williams, etc. but an ivy degree holds much more weight than a u of t degree, definitely.</p>
<p>So I should have U of T, York, McGill, Western, and Queen's business on top, and then if I don't get into them, look to the States?</p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that Canadian workplaces wouldn't be interested in a student who has already experienced something like being able to manage living on their own in a bigger country... but one of my relatives told me (maybe sarcastically to shy me away from it?) and now some of you are saying that a US degree isn't so special.</p>
<p>Could I not be able to stay in America, get an apartment, and apply for jobs there, after finishing university? Is there some sort of automatic Visa for college graduates...? HOW do I go about going to school in America and then getting a job there?</p>
<p>why wanting so much USA? You are probably the only person I know who has such an ideal fantasy about that place. America's gone a bit paranoid in recent years because of all that "WAR ON TERROR." I wish you a nice life in America. Although I'd be glad to pursue a higher education in the US, I'd hesitate about spending the rest of my life in that country, comparing to what we already have here in Canada (139 years of peace, stability, democracy, higher living standards, and economic properity). </p>
<p>I'm not the typical hard core Canadian, but I seriously have doubts about your idealistic "American Dream." ok I'm off topic.</p>
<p>Did you read my post above? The only way you can work in the states is with a TN or a HN-1 visa (unless you qualify for something diferent like an intra-company transfer, etc. etc.). They do not offer anything to college graduates. You are ineligible for the green card lottery. End of.</p>
<p>"My question is... since I am not really even thinking about the Ivy league schools and such, how valuable is a degree from a less prestigious US university (I don't mean Tier 4 schools, I'm thinking FSU, Texas A&M, Montana, etc.)?"</p>
<p>Toronto, UBC, McGill are definitely more prestigious than the American schools you have mentioned. As for Western, York, and Queens, they are generally unknown internationally, as are FSU, Montana and Texas A&M. Of course they are all good schools, but if it's brand equity you're looking for Toronto would be your best bet. (out of the schools you've mentioned)</p>
<p>Second tier school like Williams? Wrong. Williams is very much a top school. Also agree the Canadian Us don'tm rate with ivies but do with the better State schools. It is very hard in most fields to stay in the US after graduation.</p>
<p>terri, with the list of U.S. schools you're looking at, I'd recommend that you stick with the Canadian schools. If you were to be looking at better business programs in the U.S., it would be a different story. It is possible that at a U.S. college, if you were to do an internship, and then have that company willing to have you stay on after graduation, there is a program which makes that possible via the immigration/visa route. I don't have the information at my fingertips but my D who is at NYU knows several internationals who have done this. You cannot, however, just stay after graduation and job search. It must all be arranged prior to graduation. </p>
<p>SATs are not necessary for Canadian schools. I don't know of any Canadian employers who would be all that impressed with the fact that you managed to live and go to school in the U.S. It isn't that difficult! :) You won't be able to wait to hear from Canadian schools before you apply to U.S. schools. Traditionally, Canadian schools notify applicants much later than U.S. ones do. In fact, you're likely to hear from all your U.S. colleges and be required to make your decision before you hear from ANY Canadian schools!</p>
<p>The US schools you listed are below UofT, UBC, Queen's.
UofT is pretty okay, while it's a huge school, somehow, it feels only like a school with 35000 students.
But the large classes do *** you over a lot! and it's pretty much dog eat dog, and the UofT excellence isn't reflected in its teaching, but rather than in the students themselves. Because while a test can be so difficult that even profs. in the same faculty find it difficult, you can be sure there are some students in the class who can do well on it. So it's not about how well UofT teaches the material, but the knowledgeable students.</p>
<p>PS: i thought tier 1 was like top 50 school, so i thought gtown, tufts, Michigan and UVA are tier 1</p>
<p>Okay, so I should apply to the top level Canadian ones mentioned for Business (U of T, McGill, UBC, Western, York, Queen's), but if I don't get into them, go for the U.S. schools? I think Florida State, Northeastern, and Texas A&M would be on the same level if not better than Canadian ones like McMaster, Guelph, St. FX, Windsor, Dalhousie, etc.?</p>
<p>The top-ranked Canadian school (University of Toronto) is ranked 19th in North America according to the Chinese (Shanghai Jiao Tong) academic ranking of world universities. I don't have access to the THES (London Times) rankingz right now, but I believe it must be about the same. Even if we take rankings with a grain of salt (as we should), that would put the best Canadian school at the same level as a second tier (rank 15-30) U.S. university.</p>
<p>it's always better to study in a top univ in your country than opt for a lower standard elsewhere..... Where can I get the London times information anyways?</p>
<p>Now can you tell me what type of scholarships and how much is offered by Canadian Universities reagarding international students? I am pretty confused... After the visa restrictions were imposed to apply to the US, it seems other countries are jumping over the opportunity to get more foreign students.... what about canada? can you tell me whether canada is easier basically to receive more scholarships regarding the undergraduate admissions..... Is the course structure any different than the US? like Say UK?</p>
<p>Canada, like in a lot of other areas, is a mix of American and UK. It's a 4 year system like the US and structured in a very similar way but there is not usually a required curric. You don't get that many electives, it's a lot more focused on your major like in the UK. To be honest, I don't think a lot of university's are tripping over themselves for foreigns. the US gives the most out in terms of aid for internationals. Canadians don't offer much</p>