I don’t work for Goldman so it’s not for me to guide their interview process. But I’m going to guess that you don’t need to present your entire psychological history to answer the question.
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I appreciate “why us” is a valid question under many circumstances, but I’m not a fan of “why us” essay in college admissions in general because it disadvantages many kids. How can we expect a 17-year-old, who isn’t a legacy, who doesn’t have the means (financial and otherwise) to have in-depth tours/visits, and/or who doesn’t even know what field s/he is going to study in, to understand and convey why this particular college is better than the others for him/her, perhaps other than factors associated with general “prestige”?
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I agree that the school shouldn’t ask the kid to write “why us”. But I also think that the kid should find out why them, for his/her own sake. The best sources of information are often not visits. They are often conversations with current students, alums etc – now I am not saying those are any easier to access than simply visiting and doing a tour.
Any student can research a school’s mission statement, do a deeper dive on the 4 year plan of study for their major, read the school’s newspaper online, etc… Plenty of ways to answer “why us” without a visit. Especially today where so many visits can be done virtually.
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If I say that I need a job, and I heard you pay well, that will be counted as a demerit against me. Unfortunately the honest answer is the wrong answer to give.
Incidentally I did work there in the past. Sensible people don’t ask this question.
Really? You think a student with a 4.0 UW who has chosen all weighted courses will have better essays than a student with a 4.0 UW who chooses 4 unweighted art or music classes in place of 4 weighted classes? The first student will definitely have a higher GPA and “more rigor.” A teacher’s recommendation is based on performance in one (maybe two?) courses. What evidence do you have that teachers are looking at overall course selection and weighted GPA instead of how students perform in specific courses?
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Most schools’ mission statements are very broad and generic. An applicant’s “why us” essay based mostly on a generic statement is likely to sound too generic without specificities that AOs would much prefer. Also, most applicants don’t even know what they’re going to major so they’re unlikely to be able to construct a meaningful 4-year plan of study. I do agree with you that they should if they can.
You mention a 4 year plan of study for the kids’ chosen major, it is ironic that schools take pride in influencing the kid to change his/her major. Then why bother writing about a chosen major :-). I think the schools are generally confused on what they want from kids. They want the kids to be chill, but at the same time want the kid to have reflected on their life deeply to show the maturity of a 30 year old etc …
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My point is that students can be prepared to be excellent STEM majors and still have chosen to take some art and music electives in high school. At our school, they will have lower GPAs because STEM classes are weighted and art/music classes are not. Your posts seem to indicate that you think these students are less qualified than students who only take weighted classes and end up with higher GPAs.
I didn’t say this. I said that they aren’t the only ones who can write a good essay. Students who you see as weaker candidates because of their GPA or course selections can also write excellent essays, and schools are looking at that as part of the application as well.
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The reality is that 50%+ of engineering majors aren’t going to end up majoring in engineering.
92% of Purdue kids or whatever the stat was - might get their major.
But that’s 92% of who’s left!!!
Maybe. But if you get to pick the best 4% out of 30,000 applications, you can probably get that from a majority of the students you accept. And have diversity of interests and background to boot.
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IMO it was fair to ask for your source because I don’t always see the connection either, meaning rigor and grades are not necessarily linked to the strength of writing, including the particular type of introspective writing necessary for college essays.
(just one anecdote)This year my best writer BY FAR is a B+ student with decent, but not top, rigor. Truly a gifted writer, one of the best I’ve ever worked with. Conversely, a top academic student struggles mightily with college essay writing, and the resultant essays are just ok.
Both students are having good college admissions results, with the lower academic student gaining acceptance to several reaches, and the higher academic student being deferred from EA at two noted yield protecting schools. Time will tell if this student gets into any reaches.
In terms of LoRs, the college counselor letter is can also be very important, and here the overall course selection and GPA can be addressed to put those stats in context. Many/most LoRs generally speak to non-academic qualities as well, such as leadership, character, grit, determination, etc…meaning a student who earned a B in a class can still get an excellent teacher LoR.
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This is not true at Purdue:
| Fall 2018 Cohort | Fall 2019 Cohort | |
|---|---|---|
| Transitioned to engineering major on time (2 semesters) | 77.3% | 83.6% |
| Completed FYE requirements but stayed in FYE program | 3.6% | 2.0% |
| 3rd semester students in FYE program | 9.9% | 6.5% |
| CODO out of engineering | 4.1% | 4.1% |
| Left Purdue | 5.1% | 3.8% |
Source: First-Year Engineering Impact Report - School of Engineering Education - Purdue University
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So, you have more evidence than I do! Mine was just a hunch that these kinds of things happen. As parents, we know very little about other student’s lives. Knowing a kid’s GPA/course selection/standardized test score is just a tiny piece of the puzzle.
Look, my kid was deferred EA at one of the yield-protecting schools mentioned in this thread and accepted at another. I can see that my kid’s stats are higher than many of the acceptances at this school–was the deferral a yield protection? Maybe. But it’s also possible that the application just didn’t land well at one of the schools for whatever reason.
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Writing well for academic purposes does not always translate into writing a great personal essay. Giving your essay your voice – which is the goal as it’s the space you are given to be a human, not just a set of stats – can be really, really hard. Answering a prompt like you’d answer a question for a history paper leaves you two dimensional. And most high stat students know how to do that very well…
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One other thought – even if you were to know fully everything about a student’s record, you don’t know what it looks like in an application. How it’s presented matters!
The CCs at our school focused the kids on creating an app that really hung together and presented them as who they were. It’s disheartening to think that all the work that gets goes into an application is read an digested in moments by an AO! This also means there is very little real estate available to make sure the narrative hangs together.
AOs are looking for some degree of self-knowledge so it’s also important that the kid not portray himself in a way that the GC and LORs don’t corroborate.
Again, this is less about why a kid is deferred than about what another kid’s app might have looked like in that 2 minute read.
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Colleges are re- calculate every student GPA, based on their own formula. They have information for each school on how they assign their grading and GPA.
Some schools inflate their GPAs and some schools deflate . That’s is why by most universities are Looking into combination of SAT / GPA/ Course rigor / REc letters / EC . In my DD22 all classes are equally graded . 3 different gradation - College prep , honors and AP. Well rounded student with an A in AP lit / English will produce an excellent essay , that what those classes teaches you to do.
I am still not sure what is your argument .
That’s fair. It’s a national #. I’ve read 40-60% but the most common I read is 50%. I’m sure kids at lesser schools make up a higher percentage because the learnings are set by abet and many kids are likely in over their head.
Here’s a more recent source saying 60%, not all in year 1, will change majors or drop.
Edit. I think I’m on the wrong thread. Sorry @momofboiler1 and all. This might be meant for the OSU PURDUE GA TECH one.
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I have a question re your post on the B+ student who is a gifted writer and the A student with more rigor who is not a gifted writer. Do AOs look at essays from applicants who want to pursue writing differently than essays from students who want to major in something like STEM? My A kiddo with tons of rigor is a STEM kid and a fine writer with Ap English, but by no means a gifted, creative writer who wants to pursue writing for a living. I’m sure the essays reflect this truth…no typos or grammatical errors, of course, but very authentic to my kid’s voice and skill set. College admission results so far are: admitted to 2 state school with merit aid, deferred from an ivy and CWRU, if that is telling at all. Thanks for your thoughts. Just trying to have a realistic outlook for RD decision time.
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Some posters are saying admissions is holistic, and grades/rigor/test scores are just one part of the equation.
Highly rejective schools regularly accept students who don’t have the highest academic stats, maybe because they had a better application package when considering LoRs, ECs, and essays…all elements that you have no visibility when making the judgment that students with higher academic stats should have gained admission instead.
Generally not true, AP lit in particular focuses on narrative essays. Some English teachers do know how to teach the art of essay writing as it pertains to college essays, and some HSs specifically train English teachers to understand what is required wrt writing college essays.
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