How does a student initiate this “EdX” mechanism at CMU? Is this public info available on their website?
I think what bothers people is that there are NOT actually “plenty” of institutions in the US that offer that. Certainly almost no elite institutions (maybe Cal Tech.) Maybe some "public ivys if you are in state. The only way to avoid it completely is to go abroad, and that is not realistic for most students.
Personally, it is not a problem for my family. I started researching a few years in advance for my kids, so knew the game, set expectations appropriately. Luckily, my kids are also “spiky” (basically “tuba players”) and not over-represented minorities. But I still think the situation is out of hand. I would love if some schools in the US functioned the way high quality universities in the rest of the world function.
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And as the Bard says, therein lies the rub.
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I think that there are plenty of institutions that do not view admissions through this lens but where you can still get an excellent education.
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Yes, perhaps honors colleges within public flagships. The admission criteria are straightforward. You don’t have to pretend to be in love with the college or have (or fake) a “spike.” But the one in our state is only okay quality. It certainly does not offer an excellent education in the fields my kids want. And total cost of attendance is $29,000 in state! Because, you know, the stadium for the football team and the marching band for the tuba players the school “needs.” I look at European universities with jealousy. Dirt cheap excellence! More European schools are offering classes in English, but unfortunately not in the majors my kids want. Sure wish my kid spoke Dutch or Finnish!
Pretty sure that they estimate yield for each individual admit based on all available applicant characteristics that they have found that correlate to historical yield.
The truth is that there are plenty of excellent colleges in this country where an exceptional student can be admitted and get a great education. It’s the top 50 (or 20) or bust mentality that has fueled the insanity you see on these boards. As long as there remains the perception that there are only 50 schools worth attending, the madness will continue. Meanwhile, out there in the real world the number one concern of most kids/parents is whether or not they can afford college at all - not whether little Suzie gets into Harvard or has to settle for BU.
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I think the difference between a European school and a US school is that in Europe, the Tuba players have to apply to a Tuba department where they are appropriately assessed and admitted. There is no notion that the Tuba players entertain the campus at large, and thereby enrich the campus.
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I think the presumption in the sarcasm is that the education at Harvard and BU is the same. It is really not. Then, yes, the concern that little Suzie may have to settle for BU rather than Harvard is real / valid.
The reason the education is not the same is because classes at Harvard and BU are geared to teach to the class at hand. And the class at hand at Harvard is far more talented in most subjects than the class at BU. Hence the course in any given subject at Harvard will be taught at a much different level than the course at BU. This is a fact. Indeed, at Princeton, where I have second hand knowledge, classes in some departments are even targeted at the top 5% of the class at hand. Not even the median – and you can criticize that if you want. But those are the facts. Simple network effects.
Reason a lot of the IMO kids like to go to MIT is because many of the other IMO kids go to MIT. Because they have met many times at math competitions, become friends with the other kids, and want to go to school with them. I have heard this second hand. We don’t need to be fixated on the IMO part – that is just to illustrate the point.
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I’ve just learned that a number of UK universities (including highly regarded ones such as KCL and Bristol) are now offering “liberal arts” courses. And, as you know, admission is much more straight forward.
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And even if the quality of education is the same, the signalling is not.
The quality is far apart.
How do you know? I am not disagreeing - I don’t know and am curious as to how one can know for sure.
I have a kid who goes to Princeton and we have discussed curriculum at length in subjects that he takes. For example, the two semester math sequence that is the main starting point at Princeton math (not the engg math sequence, or the non-stem math sequence) is covered in 3 semesters at Stanford. Some of this material doesn’t appear until the senior year at Rutgers. Here is the book: An Introduction to Analysis | Mathematical Association of America
There are two other math departments of this calibre in terms of what the curriculum, and how fast it is taught.
Princeton doesn’t accept course credit in Physics from most other schools except a very small handful of them. A PhD candidate at a large state flagship commented the first Physics course on GR is really too advanced – usually taken in the sophomore year.
Chemistry majors at Princeton that want to go to grad school take classes in modern algebra from the Math department.
Here is a 2 semester / 2 course equivalent Humanities sequence at Princeton – if you scroll down, you can see the reading list.
https://humstudies.princeton.edu/humanities-sequence/
It is a bit daunting.
In CS, very few of the departments require assigned weekly research reading material in many departmental courses – this is done at a handful of departments – e.g., MIT, Berkeley, maybe Stanford, CMU, Princeton …
Apparently, if you want to do classics, you need to go to UMich or Berkeley – those are the schools of reckoning. Certainly for grad school.
If all schools were the same, we should all go to community college. Because it costs much less.
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It is unlikely that Harvard Math 1a, 1b are all that much different from BU MA 123, 124 (these are single variable calculus courses). Where Harvard may cater to its greater number of top-end students is likely to be in additional honors level offerings, such as Math 55a, 55b. But only the top-end of Harvard (not the majority of Harvard students) takes such courses.
What my spouse told me, when our son was cut from an elite sports team, applies here: Cream rises to the top.
If your student is “all that” they will rise to the top.
In case I am not clear, I mean in college. Maybe they will have kids that aren’t quite as bright sitting next to them. But if they are really talented/elite – they will rise to the top.
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Thanks for the explanation.
The courses of relevance are the departmental courses. Not 1a and 1b. It is the 55a and 55b that are relevant. You should sit through both those courses and the equivalent courses at BU. Then we can have a useful conversation 
1a and 1b will likely be courses for non-majors. Not relevant. If a classics major at Harvard is taking 1a and 1b to fulfill necessary math requirements (i don’t know if they have math requirements), then you need to compare her core classics curriculum to the core classic s curriculum at BU.
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That book looks like it goes with Princeton MAT 216 and 218 ( Multivariable Analysis and Linear Algebra I and II), not the more typical MAT 103 and 104 (Calculus I and II).
Princeton’s math placement advisory page is at Overview of Lower Division Courses | Math . MAT 216 and 218 are honors level courses for students “with substantial experience with proof-based mathematics (for example, some students have already taken an introductory analysis course at a nearby university while still in high school).” I.e. not the courses for students who just finished precalculus in 12th grade. The class schedule at Course Offerings | Office of the Registrar shows 11 students in MAT 218 this semester, which is tiny compared to enrollment in all of the math courses that are lower level than that at Princeton.
You are correct. The book caters to 216 and 218. Those are the main math department courses for freshmen that are math majors. So your point is? The math department graduates 35 kids a year in undergrad. There are a 100 faculty in the department.
Nobody that takes 103 and 104 aspires to be a math major. They’ll never catchup. You should compare appropriate departmentals. Incidentally, I don’t even think 103 and 104 are taught by the department. I think they may be taught by adjunct faculty.
You should compare 226 and 217 on the CS side with corresponding CS courses in other schools.