I was recently accepted into Columbia GS and Penn LPS and I can’t decide which school I should attend.
I have done extensive research about the merits of each, and learned that both programs are great, but both have students that seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder. the Columbia students believe GS is better because of Columbia’s name recognition, while the Penn students believe LPS is better because they obtain the same diploma as the Penn CAS students. My issue is that I have not been able to find first hand experiences from graduates of either community.
I’m a 27 year old former Force Reconnaissance Marine, so the “college experience” means little to me. I am planning to attend school for economics, and attend an MBA program immediately following. I am strictly looking to the future, and I would like to know how students of Columbia GS have faired since graduation.
The major issue that is swaying me from GS is different diploma. That small detail has caused me a few sleepless nights. The fact that LPS gets a standard CAS degree is a major benefit of the program. As a total outsider I personally view CC as better than Penn strictly off of name recognition, but I am totally in the dark about how GS compares to Penn. The name recognition of Columbia is useless to me if I live the rest of my life feeling like I have to convince people that “I’m totally a Columbia grad”, whereas at LPS, once I graduate I literally am a Penn grad. The LPS program becomes an arbitrary figment of the past. So basically this is a GS vs CC vs Penn comparison, and not a GS vs LPS comparison.
As a graduate from Columbia GS, do you believe that you are better off than a graduate from Penn? If you were applying for a job or an MBA program, and were pitted against a Penn graduate (with identical stats), do you believe you would be viewed better or worse? If you are on a hiring or admissions board, how would you compare graduates of each? How do you feel hiring/admissions boards view you compared to a CC grad?
I am expecting some sort of bias, so I have posted a similar discussion on the Penn LPS page.
Sorry for grammatical errors, I’m in the “quiet room” at an airport in Qatar, so obviously there are screaming babies all around me, making it hard to concentrate.
When you graduate from GS, you are a Columbia grad, and receive a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University, the same degree that all undergraduates receive. The only difference from CC is that the diploma itself–the physical piece of paper–is not written in Latin, it is written in English. Check out the 2016 outcomes report for examples of the types of jobs GS students go on to take: https://www.careereducation.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/2016%20GSS–GS.pdf. As a GS graduate, you will be a highly competitive job applicant or prospective graduate student. As you know, Columbia’s economics program is considered one of the best. I think that would give you a clear edge over a Penn graduate.
That said, Penn is obviously an excellent school, as well. One major difference is the size of the programs. At Penn, you are one of only a handful of students in LPS, where at Columbia, you are one of around 2,000 GS students (total undergraduates is 8700).
Lastly, GS provides unmatched support for veterans, and there are currently more than 400 veterans enrolled at GS.
Your BAH will be much higher in NYC of course. I think you will be fine with either and if you prefer Columbia, go to Columbia. Both will set you up for grad school and the name on that diploma will matter most to employers.
Columbia and PennState are both very fine schools, but in terms of rankings Columbia carries more weight. However, if you don’t like Columbia you can always transfer to PennState from Columbia because the school carries a lot of prestige–you could transfer almost anywhere in fact as long as you keep you grades up. Bottom line though is that everyone is a Columbia University graduate. If you look on campus, then you’ll see that mostly all the students where school apparel that says Columbia University. The degree plainly states Columbia University–an Ivy League institution. The classes integrate students from all the schools. It’s simply a separate school of an Ivy League University. There’s no deterioration of the name Columbia when you graduate from GS.
LPS is in the School of Arts and Sciences, not the College of Arts and Sciences. This make a big difference, because College students can transfer to Wharton, and LPS students are not eligible to do so. Wharton gets all the resources and money from school, and it is arguably the only reason to get an undergraduate degree from Penn. Especially if you’re interested in business. There are some Wharton-CAS minors at Penn, which are available to College students but not LPS students. Yes you get the same diploma, but your academic opportunities are limited. and essentially you are not a College student.
Attending MBA immediately after undergrad is difficult because MBA programs require certain years of related work experience. You need to work in finance for a few years. It is extremely hard to get into Wharton or Columbia MBA, even for traditional undergraduate students.
As a former Force Reconnaissance Marine, now in Quatar, how much time have you spent on the campuses of these two universities? If there are more than 400 veterans currently enrolled in the GS program, how many veterans are enrolled in the LPS program, and is that a consideration?
In the past, maybe a snarky Columbia College grad might have said that a GS student didn’t get the true Columbia experience because they didn’t take the Columbia College core curriculum, i.e. “the hallmark of the Columbia academic experience”, but my understanding is now Columbia GS students take the same core curriculum. Which they should be allowed to do, given the exorbitant cost of the GS program.
From a job hiring perspective, I don’t think an employer is going to look more favorably on one of these programs than the other. If you were trying to gain admission to an MBA program that’s neither Penn nor Columbia, I don’t think an admissions committee would favor one program over the other.
If you were trying to eventually get a Columbia MBA or a Wharton MBA, I’m not sure whether a Columbia GS would give you an “in” at Columbia, or whether they’d prefer if you went to a different university. Similarly, I don’t know whether a Penn LPS degree would give you an “in” at Wharton.
I know a number of people who went to Penn undergrad, and then Penn Law School, and people who went to Penn undergrad and then Penn School of Medicine, but nobody who went to Penn undergrad and then got a Wharton MBA.
I appreciate all of the insight. I’m currently hunting poachers in Namibia for the summer, so my decision needs to be completed before i head back, because i have the daunting task of finding an apartment and selling my car before classes start.
I am also surprised at how unbiased this been. The information about Penn undergrads not getting into Wharton is definitely something worth researching more.
I wouldn’t take the comment about Penn and Wharton that way. We visited Penn and got the Wharton brief. What we were told is Wharton grads tend not to get an MBA because they don’t need the boost in credentials. MBA is more for someone who did not major in business in undergrad or did but not at a top school.
While I personally don’t know anyone who went to Penn as an undergrad and then got a Wharton MBA, according to the 2011 article below, Penn was the largest single feeder school into the Wharton MBA program, with 7.3% of the class made up of former Penn undergrads. Harvard (6.5%), Princeton (5.4%), and Yale (3.8%) were next. One in three first year Wharton MBAs attended an Ivy League school, according to the article.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-schools-to-whartons-mba-program/
Hmm. Well that certainly muddies the water. As crazy as it sounds, I am leaning towards Penn simply because it is an easier transition from Africa, back to Ohio, and then to Penn. For some reason the idea of selling my car, and finding an apartment in NYC is far more daunting.
Can I ask you why you want an MBA right after your undergrad? Are you sure you can use your mil experience before your undergrad to be a competitive applicant? And how are you funding it? GI bill is 36 months, you can bump that up to 48 months with Voc Rehab if you have injuries but good luck convincing the VA that you need a Wharton MBA with an econ degree.
IMO MBA right after undergrad is a wasted opportunity. MBA can be used to rebrand yourself with a clean slate or move you up in a current field (preferably with your employer paying for it). Your undergrad from a top school will already rebrand you, and you are giving up 2 years of income and paying 198,000 for not much ROI.
As far as your questions here, GS is a Columbia degree, . Finding an apartment in NYC is as easy as calling your VA school rep for an income verification statement and going on streeteasy.com, there are tons of studio apartments by Columbia under 2k and you can keep the rest for expenses. Your reasons against Columbia aren’t real reasons but you are trying to find reasons to rule it out because your hearts set on Penn. There is nothing wrong with that.
You won’t find Columbia grads hanging out here, contact Columbia MilVets if you want that perspective.
Also check out the quora link, their is a good discussion of the pros and cons of getting an MBA right after undergrad.
https://www.quora.com/Business-School/Business-School-Should-you-get-your-MBA-immediately-after-getting-your-undergraduate-degree
At the end of the day your decision should be based on what gives a better opportunity. BS in Econ from Columbia or Penn. They both give you great opportunities, go with your heart.
Actually my heart was set on Columbia, but Penn is a significantly easier transition. All of my things, to include my dogs, are in Ohio, and the drive to Philly is a lot shorter. Also, a major factor would be the fact that I can get by without selling my car right away in Philly, whereas in NYC i would have to get rid of it pretty much immediately.
I payed out of pocket for the first year and a half of school, so I will have a similar amount of GI bill remaining after I graduate. I plan to apply to both top jobs, and top MBA programs upon graduation, and go to whichever is better. If I don’t get into any top MBA programs, I can always reapply later down the road.
My understanding based on the research that I have done is that a graduate degree is not necessary for a good job, but helps immensely with upward movement. I will be almost 30 by the time I graduate, and I have learned the hard way that it’s easier for me to stay in the academic mindset than it is to leave and get back into it. So I want to fast track my way to the top as much as possible, and avoid the speed bump of having to go back for an MBA when I’m not as prepared.
There are many executive MBA programs and employers occassionally pay for them. But you have time to worry about that.
I understand overseas transistions and have made one overseas and three cross-country PCSs. Don’t let the logistics get in the way of your first choice. You can look for apartments online and if you price your car right, sell it quickly. Is it in govt storage now?
Having to buy a car quickly coming from overseas was a far worse experience than selling one to go overseas. I did a limited power of attorney for a friend I trusted and he sold my truck in a month.
I’m no longer in the military, I’m just volunteering for an anti-poaching unit. I’ve found from personal experience that selling a car is 10x harder than buying one. I would have to pay to park it somewhere while it’s listed, then deal with transferring the lien, plus the fact that I have no family or really any friends in my current state. (Just EAS’d a few months ago). It’s a massive hassle, whereas last PCS I literally found a car online, had an uber drive me from the airport to the dealer, and drove away in about an hour.
I keep going back and forth on the pros and cons. It’s really down to the question: Will the benefit of going to Columbia be worth the logistical hassle compared to Penn. I think the fact that they are such good schools makes the decision so much harder. First world problems huh?
Yep. No family or friends where car is plus a lien does make it a hassle. I bought a truck from the lemon lot returning from being stationed overseas and it lived up to the name of the lot.
Glad you have two great opportunities and it will be fine at either place. I visited both schools with my D and loved things about both.
What someone said in the past about a true CC experience, they are incorrect. Every undergraduate student goes through the core. GS students sit alongside, in class, with CC students. You literally are classmates with the same exact professor.
Unless you bring your diploma with you to job interviews (you won’t) employers who want to verify where you went to undergrad will know that you went to LPS because it will come up in the National Clearing House Database. It also says that you went to LPS on your transcripts. So, either way, if employers want to scrutinize which undergrad college you attended, they will find out.
But, in reality, employers/grad schools will just see Columbia/Penn and never seek to make a distinction of which college within each respective university you attended.