Question for FA Experts -- 2 Kids in School; Does Out-of-Pocket at X affect Y?

Parents Forum
1

<p>For FA novices like me this seems a little tricky, so thanks for following the bouncing ball and providing your input.</p>

<p>One kid CURRENTLY in college. Kid #1 is a sophomore. We would have been borderline FA eligible, but because Kid #1 was fortunate enough to receive $15-16K in merit money, our EFC was larger than the adjusted college cost. No problem. Glad for the discount.</p>

<p>Now, this is where it starts getting tricky. Kid #2 starts college next year. All of the sudden, with TWO kids in college, having assets substantially lessened because of paying for two years of college, AND having had a lousy income year, FAFSA and Profile projections show that BOTH kids will likely receive a fairly significant amount of FA (even with Kid #1 already receiving his merit money).</p>

<p>Follow? All right, this is where it gets tough. We are so fortunate because Kid #2 now has some incredible merit offers -- full-ride, $20K, $25K, and $30K ... she's leaning towards the full-ride offer for many reasons ($$$ being only one of them) ... but it's still being analyzed. One thing that I'm uncertain of is this: the effect, if any, that Kid #2's decision on which merit offer to accept has on Kid #1's FA request at Kid #1's school? For example, Kid #2 might choose a school where we pay $15K for school; alternatively, Kid #2 might choose a school where we pay $0 for school. Does Kid #1's school care? Or, if Kid #2's decision saves us all that money -- and we're thus relatively richer than we might have been -- does Kid #1's school now simply swoop in ... saying because you've contributed NOTHING to Kid #2's school, we're NOT going to offer you the FA amount we otherwise were going to?</p>

<p>Unless I've missed something, we've only been asked how many kids we have in school ... and where they're going to ... NOT how much we're actually paying out-of-pocket. Do schools request this information? Do they somehow just know -- perhaps there is some national information clearinghouse where schools list merit awards given to all students?</p>

<p>The relevance of this, of course, is the impact of money differences on Kid #2's decision. If Kid #2 is swayed in her decision, in part, by saving the family $X by taking the best possible financial offer ... BUT ... Kid #1's school immediately uses this savings of $X by now NOT offering the $X in FA that they were otherwise going to ... then, each scenario (at least for the two years they are in school together) has the same net effect on the family as a whole ... meaning Kid #2's choice of school should be based solely on school preferences, not on money (at least as it applies to the next two years).</p>

<p>Phew. Sorry that was so convoluted. Any takers? Thank you.</p>

2

<p>I do believe that each school has to fill out a form validating that the sibling is matriculated and what they are paying. Certainly the former. GW has that form online which you can see as an example ... can't find it at the moment but it's probably with all their finaid form stuff.</p>

3

<p>I'm curious about this, too! I started a thread a few weeks ago on this topic, called "Two in college.." (sorry - not sure how to link to this) but it didn't completely address this question. How about you email your question to one of daughter #2's colleges and see what they say? Please come back and tell us when you find out!!!! This is info we need. Thank you :)</p>

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<p>Here it is ... not sure if all schools' forms look like this ... doesn't seem to ask about tuition costs.</p>

<p><a href="http://gwired.gwu.edu/finaid-n/merlin-cgi/p/downloadFile/d/9601/n/off/other/1/name/0607_VRSIBpdf/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://gwired.gwu.edu/finaid-n/merlin-cgi/p/downloadFile/d/9601/n/off/other/1/name/0607_VRSIBpdf/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>TM, AM:
Thanks for your responses. You'd think there would be a definite answer about this ... it's not an uncommon situation. Certainly, when assessing the incoming freshman's choices (from a financial perspective), it would be nice to know all the variables and whether cost savings are real, or whether they're simply taken back by the other kid's school. I knew I'd have to make some calls, but I'm still hoping that some veteran parent can supply stories from the frontlines.</p>

<p>TM:
Your PM box is full.</p>

6

<p>As far as I know, each school will want a "verification of enrollment" from the other kid's school, and that is it.</p>

<p>As far as I can tell, if you have one kid in an expensive private school, and another gets really great merit aid or attends an inexpensive public school, it means you are lucky.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
As far as I can tell, if you have one kid in an expensive private school, and another gets really great merit aid or attends an inexpensive public school, it means you are lucky.

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<p>Lucky on many, many levels. Something we definitely know. Thanks for the info Calmom.</p>

<p>Methinks the "deerstalker" hat comes out tomorrow ... time for some investigative work.</p>

8

<p>Keep us posted as that info will help all.</p>

<p>DD - I emptied my mailbox, thanks.</p>

9

<p>Why don't you pose the question to #1's school? What any of us 'thinks' about this really doesn't matter, nor do our personal experiences at other colleges. I can't see any harm from discussing this with the financial aid office at college #1. #2 hasn't chosen a school yet, so it seems reasonable that you'd want to know the impact from #1 school. </p>

<p>Since each situation is different, you can share your outcome - but I still don't think it would have any bearing on what happens to the next family facing this situation (most likely involving other schools and other personal financial data).</p>

10

<p>LHofD ...</p>

<p>Thanks for your post. True to everything you've said. Understood -- how school #1 deals with it means everything, the rest means nothing. Having said that, before talking with school #1 it certainly doesn't hurt to get the "lay of the land," a feel for how this is typically handled (if there is a typical). I do think that this was reasonably implied by my long-winded question, but perhaps it got lost in the sheer verbiage. One other thing -- my professional and personal experiences with large organizations of various sorts have impressed upon me that sometimes the single WORST thing you can do (sometimes ... I don't know if this applies here) is to directly ask a question, i.e., flag the issue, when if you hadn't asked the question (or asked it in that way) the results could have been dramatically different.</p>

<p>So, I agree with you -- with a couple of huge asterisks.</p>

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<p>I do see your point - it's valuable to get input from others. I just didn't want the 'direct route' to get lost in the discussion.</p>

12

<p>I doubt that ANY school is going to give you clear direction on this one. </p>

<p>You know, if you do those college calculator things to measure the impact on EFC of having two as opposed to one kid in college three years apart, you find out that it makes much less difference than you would have thought. The reason for that is that no college expects that most of what you are paying is to come out of current income. It is expected that it would come from past savings or future savings (i.e. loans, with the amount you actually pay discounted based on future earnings potential and inflation.)</p>

<p>So, I know you'd like to know...but I doubt you'd be able to get clear enough information to use in decision-making.</p>

<p>Congrats on good choices! (let us know what she, and you, decide.)</p>

13

<p>Actually, I had a very fruitful conversation with the financial aid rep from my daughter's school this morning on this very issue.</p>

<p>Here is my situation:</p>

<p>Son, age 23 - has been out of school for 3 years, accepted at a CSU in a remote location as a transfer for next fall. The kid is uncertain as to whether he wants to move away and give up his good job for college, or remain in his apartment & attend the local CSU part-time instead. If he does start school, he will be turning 24 next year, and has been self-supporting and living away from home, so cannot be claimed as a dependent by either parent - so status for 2007/2008 school year is in question.</p>

<p>D, age 18, entering college as a freshman. </p>

<p>I received a financial aid award from a CSS Profile school that said the "Parental Contribution" was about ~$15K. FAFSA EFC for my daughter, based on son being in college, is ~$6K; with one kid only it would be double. Financial aid award says it is based upon sibling being enrolled full time in college. So I talk to my son, he's hemming & hawing, will decide in July what to do - and I'm in a panic - figuring, I can handle $15K, but definitely NOT $30K. </p>

<p>Then the lovely financial aid officer sent down from heaven told me.. no, they had figured out all by themselves that the son was not to be relied upon to attend college, and the $15K EFC is based on the assumption that he is NOT in school. If he goes to school, they will lower the EFC and increase my grant. If he goes to school part-time, they still want to know, because if he is taking more than 6 credit hours, they will still adjust aid depending on his expenses. After he turns 24, D's school's policy will depend on S's school policy -- if he opts to attend a school that still considers him a dependent and expects a contribution from me, then they will consider & adjust our aid accordingly. (Talked to my son this morning -- he was very much relieved!)</p>

<p>So basically, this is one school's policy and they are just being as fair as they can possibly be. </p>

<p>So yes: once you have a financial aid offer in hand - ASK. What I did was email all my questions and ask them to call me - that resulted in an extremely fruitful conversation. </p>

<p>Mini - I'm sure you will appreciate this -- one reason my D's college is very eager to know of my son's enrollment status is that if my son does go to college full time, my daughter will qualify for a $1300 Pell Grant. This is a one time-fluke of the numbers, and does not affect the total grant money we will receive - but the school would like to get that money if they can. I'm shocked because we don't qualify for a Cal Grant because my assets are above the ceiling -- but apparently the Pell Grant doesn't really consider assets, at least not under the circumstances applying to our case.</p>

14

<p>To be filed in the "For What It's Worth" folder:</p>

<p>With the help of 2 friends who will be facing this same dilemma within the next 2 years, we contacted a half-dozen schools today (NOT School #1 ... where my son currently is attending) to see if there was any uniformity of treatment on this issue. Five schools provided meaningful information ... the sixth one was so "confused" that we took nothing from that conversation. All five schools said the same thing: as long as Kid #2 is a full-time enrollee at a 4-year college, then exactly how much you're paying isn't particularly relevant ... just that you are paying. Honestly, in this day and age of easy information (even with privacy considerations), it intuitively seems that a school would want to know how much you're out-of-pocket with a second kids college ... not just that they kid is attending. That second kid could be costing you $45K per year; conversely, the second kid could be costing you ZERO. Shouldn't that make a difference? But, when asked this question in multiple ways ... all five schools answered the same way. By the way, these schools were schools similar to School #1 in size, resources, USNWR ranking, etc.</p>

<p>Now clearly, the above means absolutely nothing as to how School #1 will actually handle it. However, knowing how they are "likely" to handle it helps me plan what my daughter's options will cost my son (likely nothing) ... and my need to talk to School #1 vs. letting sleeping dogs lie.</p>

<p>Thanks to all who have offered their input on this thread or via PM. Much obliged.</p>

15

<p>"Honestly, in this day and age of easy information (even with privacy considerations), it intuitively seems that a school would want to know how much you're out-of-pocket with a second kids college ... not just that they kid is attending."</p>

<p>Only if you assume they think that a major portion of the payment is to come out of your current income, which they don't.</p>

16

<p>"Honestly, in this day and age of easy information (even with privacy considerations), it intuitively seems that a school would want to know how much you're out-of-pocket with a second kids college ... not just that they kid is attending."</p>

<p>They can also look at your prior year's tax form for your Tuition & Fees deduction for the other's child out-of -pocket .</p>

17

<p>The Profile asks but not the FAFSA. Last year however my D's school which does not use the profile called us and asked us verbally. My S's school uses the Profile so they have that info.</p>

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<p>
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They can also look at your prior year's tax form for your Tuition & Fees deduction for the other's child out-of -pocket .

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<p>Isn't it capped at $4000?</p>