No judgement here. Just curious if anyone is not wealthy (let’s say HHI >200k) and is letting their kid major in the humanities. This question is promoted by my comments on the other thread. Curious what your logic + thought process was.
We are not wealthy at all and D20 is a sophomore at a T20 LAC as a humanities major - as of right now, an IR major with a minor in Asian Studies and an eye on the 4+1 program her school has with a college in Switzerland. Her school meets 100% demonstrated need with no loans for families in our income bracket.
She struggled in math for years, despite working with a private tutor. That eliminated a lot of majors and she is happy to be somewhere that will not make her take another math class. Bio dissections made her queasy and pass out.
Her strengths were always the humanities (top 1% SAT EBRW score, 5s on both Lang and Lit plus all the social studies offerings at her HS, gifted in foreign languages and taught herself Greek). We couldn’t see trying to force her into subject areas that just didn’t fit with her nature. Is it “risky”? Maybe but the lack of loans takes off a lot of the pressure to get the salary that might come with a CS or engineering degree. Plus, she will be happier in the long run.
6 Likes
Both my kids were humanities majors, and both are flourishing post-grad. One is in a top law school, the other very successful – in terms of promotions and financially – in a major market in business. The skills they learned in college – critical thinking, reading and writing, plus collaboration, project management etc., prepared them for their current professional success.
edited to add – they each studied what interested them, with an eye on the next step after college. Both did what they wanted for the first two summers of college, then honed in on the summer before senior year internship to help prepare them for the post-grad job search.
9 Likes
We told our son he could study anything he wanted, no strings, as we firmly believe that education is about the life of the mind, not the wallet. Our financial situation has nothing to do with that position as we also told him from the time he was young that his undergrad education would be our last financial gift to him as we had retirement to plan for. Whatever he chose to study would be on him to make a go of to support himself, no help from us. We only emphasized the importance of pursuing something he loved that would feed his soul. We believe that if you do what you love, you’ll find a way to feed your belly. I have posted our philosophy on education several times here over the years, most recently on the Career paths that are, of have become, elite-or-bust if you’re truly interested.
10 Likes
By any account I am well off enough that my children, one of which is approaching the college process soon, will have incredible independence to choose a lower paying career if they so choose in order to “follow their dreams.”
As a humanities alum of an Ivy League college myself, I will not pay for them to study the humanities. One is inclined towards STEM, the other will probably strictly apply to business programs or plan on studying economics.
Simply put, there is no remunerative career (decent sized mortgage, two cars, 2-4 weeks of vacation a year, pension or large 401k contribution etc.) a humanities degree opens that is not also opened by another degree. There are many industries, positions, and paths closed off by a humanities degree that someone who is 18-22 is usually too young to appreciate. Even at HYPS, it is still unlikely to obtain these positions with an English BA. And even if you do, imagine where you would be with an Econ BS or an Engineering degree at a hedge fund.
For much of my career I practiced as a corporate lawyer (my kids will never, ever go to law school; all my former partners and most of my classmates from law school push the MBA hard). Like the humanities, law schools from Yale on down to Cooley Law give the whole “critical thinking” “written analysis” pitch. Most of it is hog wash. You will get that and more in STEM, where rigor is actually tested and required. With Ivy League humanities departments desperate to attract more students, they have lowered standards immensely. They are full of the “hooked” applicants spoken of on this forum (development office, recruited athletes etc.) who could not hack it in a tougher major.
If my children have a burning passion to study history or comp lit or art history, they will be taking out loans to study it. They will then have some skin in the game. If their finances hit the fan post-grad I will bail them out, and they will be surprised by that, with the lesson learned regardless.
1 Like
I believe that the keys to success are drive, charisma and intelligence, in that order. If you have one, you will do fine. Two great. If you have all 3, the golden ticket. What subject you study for a few years is way down on the list.
13 Likes
We are not wealthy but we aren’t poor. We allowed our kids to study whatever they wanted to study in undergrad school.
One was a music performance major (has a masters in this as well). He is working in his field and is self supporting. Good example of “do what you love, love what you do”.
The second kid has an undergrad degree in engineering. This kid will never be an engineer. Picked up a second major in biology. Will never be a biologist. But went to professional school after a stint in the Peace Corps and will be fine!
There are lots of folks who are self supporting who major in humanities…or the arts.
9 Likes
If you have strength in one or two, you also need not to be so weak in the ones you do not have strength in that the weakness drags you down despite your strengths elsewhere.
2 Likes
I agree with that order. Taking on student loans or spending parents’ money if they don’t have much of it is not intelligent unless one is maximizing career opportunities, which humanities don’t do by design.
I don’t think it is unreasonable at all to spend a third of your credits on a useful major, a third on Gen Ed requirements, and the rest on humanities.
1 Like
This is an example of a humanities/arts major that makes sense. He or she is talented enough to make a living in it. Most people studying English comp lif history etc would require further education and credentialing to join a high pay public teachers union, let alone pursuing these at the university level. There is a shortage of pre calc teachers, phys Ed is impossible to get.
1 Like
Correct. You can be the life of the party and work 24/7, but if you foolishly take on six figures in loans to study underwater basket weaving at a bad private liberal arts college, you won’t “make it”, and run a significant risk of ruining your personal finances for thirty years.
1 Like
Yes. You get it. Really the only person on this thread with a good head on their shoulders. I know you got a lot of heat for your anti-law comments, but many law profs would agree that the quality of student has been rapidly going downhill. And yes, vast majority of humanities majors I’ve met at my Ivy have also been hooked.
Would just like to emphasize this. English BAs get you NOWHERE.
Thank you. I really try not to be hyperbolic but life ruining decisions are made every day in the form of non dischargeable debt and curtailed career opportunities with an arts BA. 18 year olds deserve better information and fewer adults preying on naïveté.
1 Like
Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."
and
“College Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else… If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.”
2 Likes
Yes just think how awful it must be for those Harvard students who majored in both history and literature.
Oh look, here’s one: Pete Buttigieg - Wikipedia
9 Likes
Most seniors, even on this forum with the most diligent of high schoolers, have no shot whatsoever of going to Harvard. They have no shot of going to the HYPS level school, the bare minimum at which an English degree can be sensible. Even when you are at a Duke, Dartmouth, or Brown, having an English BA will be a big hindrance for any upwardly mobile position in a large private sector organization.
And picking some outlier like Buttigieg is ridiculous. It is like saying go to law school because Ted Cruz or bill Clinton did it. More lawyers 30 years out make under 75k than over 250k. More Harvard English BAs will make under 100k than over 300k at their 25th reunion. Aspiring to be a cabinet official and connecting it to a degree program is asinine.
1 Like
A bit of googling easily finds a few others who did ok for themselves after majoring in English:
Martin Scorcese
Mitt Romney
Conan O’Brien
Steven Spielberg
About a gazillion authors including Steven King, Amy Tan, Dr. Suess to name just a few -
About a gazillion famous actors & entertainers
John Wooden
Joe Paterno
Diane Sawyer
Garrison Keillor
Barbara Walters
Russell Baker
Laura Bush
Sally Ride (!)
Clarence Thomas
Thurgood Marshall
John Paul Stevens
Dr. Spock
BF Skinner
Rachel Carson
And so on. I assume some of the posts up-thread are sarcasm. I know numerous successful people who majored in all kinds of things & I hope you do too. Of course I may measure success differently than you do. Happiness rather than money, for example (and yes, you can be happy on a less income, short of actual poverty). My kid can major in whatever she wants.
11 Likes
Almost all of these people have incredible talent from birth or entered fields in which the credential did not matter at all. They also went to college when it didn’t entail tuition surpassing 250k. For every one of them there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of T20 humanities majors who could not make $1,000 selling their novel manuscript or screenplay. Or they were psychology phd and could not get tenure like Skinner.
2 Likes