Question: NCAA Div. 1/Ivy League/Track: Help!!!

Parents Forum
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<p>Redshirt means that a college athlete does not compete for a year but is still nominally on the team and can still work out with the team in practices. So called because in days gone by these guys traditionally wore red jerseys in practice to distinguished them from team members in full standing. The NCAA will allow each athlete one redshirt year without loss of any years of eligibility. Some ahtletes choose to redshirt and some have redshirt thrust upon them - sometimes to get over a serious injury, somtimes to simply allow the body to mature another year, sometimes to allow senior players who play that same position to graduate and open up a slot.</p>

<p>College cross country meets have tradtionally been 10K for men and 5K for women, although some women's meets are now longer. But in either case that's a little long for an 800m specialist. 1600m guys are borderline. They often compete, but they seldom win. The longer distance 3 and 6 mile specialists usually kick their butts.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the redshirt definition.
I think Winter and Spring track would have been more than enough for him to tackle freshman year. He really just wanted to run track, and I'm concerned that he's biting off more than he can chew before he even sets foot on campus. Guess the level of commitment depends on the coach and program.</p>

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<p>First, I’d like to thank those who have provided insights on the recruitment process. For us neophytes who are new to the game, they’ve been very helpful. I realize this thread has been a bit dormant recently, but it addresses the exact issue that my D faces – and I’ve seen some excellent posts here from people with firsthand experience.</p>

<p>My D is being recruited to run cross country and track – and is particularly interested in programs at Stanford and the Ivies. She has very strong times and academics, and would like to find the right fit. Her top priority is academics, but she’d like to run in a committed program with a great coach and strong camaraderie. None of these fine institutions would claim to sacrifice academics, but reality could be different, depending on the coach and team atmosphere.</p>

<p>Here’s my question: Do you have any advice on track programs at Stanford and the various Ivies and how they balance track and academics? I’m generally familiar with recent results and rosters, but these things change quickly (and some recruit more strongly than others). In some cases the athletes seem to live together, and in some they don’t. Ultimately, my D’s preferred choice will sort out during official visits, but I’d like to help her manage the process. It seems five official visits may be too many for a busy scholar-athlete. With pressure to apply early, it behooves us to get as much information/perspective as possible. Any insights on coaches, team chemistry, etc. would be much appreciated. Thanks.</p>

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<p>There is a huge difference between running at Stanford and running at the Ivies. One example would be that Stanford has the BEST women's distance program in the country, the Ivies. . .not so much. There's going to be a huge difference between your daughter running at Stanford and running elsewhere, so she really better look into that if that's a possibility for her.</p>

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<p>Buy this book--The Silence of Great Distance. It deals with the joys and pressures of big-time CC teams. Some girls thrive and others have problems.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Silence-Great-Distance-Women-Running/dp/0962924326%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Silence-Great-Distance-Women-Running/dp/0962924326&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Ecliptica and barrons: thanks for your replies. I’ll check out “The Silence of Great Distance.” It does appear that a lot depends on the individual.</p>

<p>I know there’s a huge difference between Stanford and the Ivies – and that Stanford has the top women’s distance program in the country. The experience would be totally different. If admitted to Stanford, my D would have to carefully weigh the pros and cons of running at that level. Interestingly, some Stanford athletes say it’s actually easier to run there because the schedule and coaches are accommodating (no Friday classes, limited bus travel, depth of the team, unbelievable facility, etc.). As a parent, however, I recognize that the laid-back West Coast atmosphere may not fully translate to the track. Not everyone can be super scholar-athletes like Arianna Lambie.</p>

<p>The distinction between the Ivies is far less clear. Some have very strong individual runners (like Donaldson at Yale, who placed third at NCAA cc last year, and Higginson, soon to be at Princeton). From what I can see, what’s lacking at the Ivies is depth. That may be okay, even preferable, depending on the kid. Any perceptions of coaching philosophies or reputations of different Ivy track programs (mainly Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Brown)? The latter two have relatively new coaches.</p>

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<p>Probably, but BYU might argue the point. In the last 10 years they have won four NCAA team championships each. Stanford certainly is great though no matter how you look at it, especially in the last few years.</p>

<p>Div. 1 Women's Cross Country Team Champions
1996 Stanford
1997 Brigham Young
1998 Villanova
1999 Brigham Young
2000 Colorado
2001 Brigham Young
2002 Brigham Young
2003 Stanford
2004 Colorado
2005 Stanford
2006 Stanford</p>

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<p>Stanford sometimes offers it's recruits five years as a way of giving the athletes a taste of the full academic experience.</p>

<p>Your D might ask if they oucld put that on the table for her.</p>

<p>I also recommend your D visit the schools, at their expense, in September to get a first hand look at the job, bosses and workmates. Some sports at some Ivies insist that the team miss freshman orientation and skip non-team roommates. That's a no-brainer for some kids--and off-putting for others.</p>

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<p>While Brown's coach is only in her second year at Brown, she is not at all new to coaching. She was at Columbia before Brown. She is a little controversial. I would forget about Harvard. It's where runners go to die. I'm not all that impressed with how Princeton develops the talent they attract- Ecliptica might know more. Cornell has a strong distance program- I don't know as much about the women's coaching as I do the men's. Duke has an intense and strong women's program.<br>
This is a tough decision for your daughter, since as Ecliptica pointed out, there is almost no comparison between the Ivys and Stanford for an elite runner. Your daughter will get a great education, of course, but the running experience can't be compared.
My son is an Ivy runner- well, sort of. He has been injured and hasn't gotten to run yet.</p>

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<p>Cool, a track thread. Does anyone know what a 49.x(400m) can do for school admissions (not ivies)?</p>

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<p>ninos,</p>

<p>As I'm sure you already know, runners generally have little or (mostly) no future as pro athletes. To me and my D, that was THE most important consideration when choosing a school. In other words, your daughter will not always be a competitive runner, but she will always be a graduate of _____U.</p>

<p>Other things to investigate include whether eating disorders are an issue for the various teams, and how much stress/competition she really wants from running while also pursuing a degree at an extremely competitive U. </p>

<p>Also, at scholarship schools like Stanford, she would have a contractual obligation to run (unless she is a walk-on), whereas at the Ivies, staying on the team is purely voluntary.</p>

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<p>Dank - a 400 meter time of 49 is recruitable for DII and DIII. The NESCAC Schools are DIII and a time 49 would have been in the top two at the NESCAC championships. These schools are very competitive academically Williams, Amherst, Bates , Bowdoin, Colby, Tufts, etc<br>
As you may know, the NESCAC schools use a slot or tip system, so if your application is supported by the coach you have an excellent chance of being admitted, however, for track and field (nonhelmet sports) your scores and grades will need to be within the range of other accepted students. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.nescac.com/sports/track&field/home.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nescac.com/sports/track&field/home.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here are the times from the 2007 NESCAC championship. </p>

<h1>Men 400 Meter Dash 2007</h1>

<pre><code>Name School Finals H# Points
</code></pre>

<p>1 xx Williams 49.73 3 10<br>
2 xx Bates 50.50 3 8<br>
3 xx Williams 50.51 3 6<br>
4 xx Tufts 50.81</p>

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<p>Wow, I could have won a college championship. I didn't even win State Championship. Wow!
Too bad I could never get into any of those schools. </p>

<p>So I wouldn't have a shot at DI or just not a good DI? I know I'm not going to be able to go to Baylor or anything with my time I'll probably be aiming for low DI schools.</p>

<p>Thanks Daffymom.</p>

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<p>The west coast's famous "laid-back" atmosphere means casual, friendly, and informal. It does not mean lazy. Students at Stanford take their academics very seriously and work very hard. Student athletes heading to Stanford can expect to work <em>very</em> hard - both on and off the track.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the advice! It's much appreciated. I'm sure it will help us find the right fit.</p>

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<p>Harvard is where runners go to die? How so? Does that mean that Harvard amongst the Ivies would be most apt to want a girl who has sufficient but not amazing academics and a track time that will win her events in Ivy competition? And if said girl does not plan to go pro or to the Olympics or anything of the sort but likes to run and would love to go to Harvard, wouldn't that be a great outcome?</p>

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<p>^^I wouldn't read that much into the comment. I think it just means that Harvard's track/cross country program isn't all that strong right now, which is true.</p>

<p>Weak as it is, Harvard can still produce a star every now and then. Consider Meredith Rainey (Harvard '90), a <em>walk on</em> at Harvard she bloomed into the top US half-miler of her era. She went on to win multiple NCAA and US National championships and competed in two Olympic Games for the US team.</p>

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<p>I follow some running message boards very closely. Many runners who choose Harvard wind up quitting the teams early in their collegiate careers. Harvard just doesn't have a good program right now. If you want to use your running to help get in, fine, but don't expect a good running experience.</p>

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<p>Mom of Wild Child has some strong words about Harvard that may have been true 2 years ago but are almost certainly based on ignorance of the current situation. Her comments about Princeton make little or no sense to me, as Princeton is by far the strongest distance program in the Ivy League right now, they have a chance to make a national impact (top 15-20?) this year in XC. </p>

<p>Harvard -- new coach for 05/06 Jason Saretsky. He is young and inexperienced (by way of Columbia and Iona), has a tough task ahead of him but his very first recruiting class indicates that he's serious about getting things back on track. The kids from New Jersey (Emont 9:08 3200 & Brenner All State XC 2005, 16:15 at Holmdel) were both I believe better HS performers in XC and/or track than the WildChild who is now at Penn? My daughter knows both, academic superstars, smart savvy kids, they were recruited widely and chose Harvard with eyes wide open. Sometimes jumping into a rebuilding program can have huge upside. Chenoweth from Illinois was one of the very best distance runners in the HS class of '07, he could have gone anywhere and chose Harvard. On the girls side Californian Hilary May is also a nationally competitive talent. One potential black mark against Saretsky is loss of Harvard rising senior Lindsey Scherf, one of the best distance runners in the country. From what I've heard though that was a tough situation that he handled as best he could. So, jury's still out on Harvard, but initial signs with the new young coach are very positive. I would note that Mom of Wild Child advised earlier on this thread (last year) that "Harvard doesn't recruit for distance" or similar, at the very time Saretsky was busy bringing on Chenoweth, May and many others. Harvard will not jump to the top of the Ivies this year, but the harsh words on this thread no longer ring true. The Hagerty era of benign neglect is certainly over. </p>

<p>Princeton -- this year's recruiting class says it all to me. Amirault, Soloff, Salvatore, etc., to add to a returning team (Nightingale, Maag, Sitler) that is the tops in the Ivies (in XC at least) by a wide margin. Higginson from NJ on the women's side is phenomenal. Someone must be doing something right there. Dolan the distance coach is a totally stand-up guy, beloved by his athletes, perfect for Princeton. </p>

<p>My son was an accomplished Ivy distance runner, I love hs and collegiate cross country, follow pretty closely, daughter (not a runner) Harvard bound this year. I know Saretsky the new Harvard coach from his stint as a graduate assistant under Willy Wood at Columbia. (He also ran there, decent 800 guy) I'm hoping he does well at Harvard. </p>

<p>I'd also note that I've known Charlie Powell for years, nice guy, fine coach, though Penn seriously underperformed last year, especially in XC. :-) </p>

<p>Finally, my take on Craig Lake. She was wonderful at Columbia, a very nice complement to Willy Wood & company. Not sure she has managed to transfer that wonder to the head coaching position at Brown. But I know the family of a young miler who is doing really well there, they love her.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long semi-rant. So MomofWildChild, chill out on Harvard and give Saretsky a chance, at least a few years.</p>

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<p>If they really want to be good, they should pick me up. Along with Nellums.</p>