<p>Thx…will do</p>
<p>@dreamcatcher3: Why don’t you post 13 random posts and then PM? That’s what I would do instead of posting my email address to the whole wide world…:P</p>
I’m bumping this because I’ve seen some mention of “tiers” of schools and because everyone trying to choose where to apply should read Albion’s answer to my initial question.
Albion’s post should be required reading. Here- let me make it easy for you! 
Here’s what I’ve seen, since I currently teach at a school like this. The kids in the top (and it’s not only one or two) are in classes filled with like-minded individuals. The homework pressure and the level of intellectual rigor is for real. I often smile ruefully inside my head thinking of the way my school would get sneered at by kids on CC as being “not worth it” and “less than ideal” when I’m watching the honors kids work their way through a project, when they are passing on social activities on a Friday night because they are excited to start a school project, or when older kids are discussing books they remember reading in English classes the year or two before with the underclassmen who are encountering the book for the first time. These kids are NOT working in coloring books or filling out worksheets, and they aren’t just going through the motions to get good grades. The top kids at a second tier school can and do get into Ivy League colleges as well as a host of top 25 LACs and anywhere else fancy you can imagine, but it’s not because those around them are weaker; it’s because they have genuine intellectual passion and ability. Here, they can apply to work as tutors, setting up office-hours in our library to help fellow students who struggle with writing, science, or math. (there’s plenty of faculty help available too, don’t worry, but I think the peer-to-peer system is interesting.) It’s a good opportunity for them, and I know a lot of student tutors who have learned a lot through the experience.
As teachers, we need to take jobs based on a huge number of factors; where the job openings in our field are in the year we’re applying, where our spouses work, and what the salary and benefits are…I don’t doubt that Andover has the finest teachers on earth, but that doesn’t mean we’re filled with the B-Team rejects. I’m currently on the strongest faculty I’ve ever been on–and I bet my last day school had higher scores than my current boarding school. The high achieving kids get a lot of attention and interest from the faculty here. We go out of our way to make sure that the extra-capable can soar.
A smart kid at a school like this will have plenty of peers who are motivated and inspiring each other to do well–I do overhear conversations among kids who are used to getting the top marks in every subject laughingly name students who continually best them here. The competition for top honors isn’t cut-throat, but the most academic kids here are indistinguishable from top kids anywhere. (What we don’t have are rare kid geniuses, who I imagine one can encounter at the top schools.)
Kids here want a wide variety of thing from their lives. Some are really hoping to play D1 sports in college. Some dream of going to large state schools. Some have dreams of serving in the military. Some want only Ivy or top-ranked LACs. And yes, there are kids here who really struggle with school and are not intellectually hungry. But the thing I’ve seen over and over is that there are a lot of kids who care about school and want to do well among the kids who are not the top students. So even if not every kid on the soccer team on dorm floor is an intellectual powerhouse, (and all teenagers complain about too much work and not enough sleep some of the time) what I see at my school is kids who are interested in doing well and trying hard. For some of them, they are coming from public schools where no one was allowed to care about homework unless they were in honors classes. Here on the Second Tier, I see a lot of kids finally allowing themselves to show passion for school. I wouldn’t say there is a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism. There is a lot more discussion of YA fiction than of Proust, but they do read books for fun.
We also offer all the good stuff that every boarding school does–the lessons in independence, the leadership opportunities, the diversity, the chance to stretch and try new things, and the world-class guest speakers, traveling performing groups, etc.
The last time I was on the job market, I got to visit a lot of schools. We say “school” but we’re really talking about a collection of administrators, faculty, alumni, traditions, staff and students that form the experience. It’s so much more than numbers on a page that I’d wager there are noticeable differences in the intellectual culture at different second tier schools even if they all have the same SSAT averages.
If your kids score in the 90s, I would still look at schools where the average is in the 70s. Not all of them will be a fit, but it’s likely that some will. Keep in mind also that the admissions cycle keeps cycling (albeit on a lower speed) throughout the spring and summer. Anecdotes aren’t evidence, but I do have a current student who was accepted here summer before her junior year with an almost full scholarship.
Wow, that went long. A quiet afternoon on the dorm here, and I’ve got time to kill. Twinsmama, I am pulling for you and your kids!
HT to @GMTplus7 for “Academic Sleepers”, too.
I think that should be pinned up for all to read.
I agree. I’ve pinned the thread.
As a student who transitioned to a top tier prep school from a public school, I would like to comment on what you said in your post. Although I was supported by teachers and staff at the public school I attended, I was not surrounded by classmates who were as adamant and thirsty for knowledge as I was. In fact, many times, I was teased and bullied by my peers because I was labeled the “nerd or the teacher’s pet.” I wore glasses that resembled soda pop bottle glass due to my very poor vision, which enlarged my eyes so much that my classmates took to calling me “four eyes” on a daily basis. All of this created a dismal academic experience. I found that the only other student in my class, who in hindsight was quite similar to me academically, was hostile to me and we did not revel in gaining knowledge as peers. This person saw me as a rival and was quite competitive with me, often comparing our test scores and the like. I fit the bill of a high achieving student at public school because the school lacked any academic challenge for me. I frequently completed all school work ahead of schedule and was left to my own devices while everyone else in class was still struggling to finish an assignment. I was fortunate enough to encounter some teachers here and there that recognized what was happening and they provided extra, more challenging work. However, I always got the sense that it was just to keep me busy, in other words: “Here, go work on these equations or read this book. Don’t bother me.” That was the underlying message I received.
Imagine my delight when I began attending prep school. I was surrounded by academic peers who truly shared an immense thirst for knowledge. There, I was greeted with respect and encouragement for attempting to challenge myself. I was no longer ridiculed or mocked because I raised my hand to answer questions in class. I was encouraged to do my best and was applauded when I did. The competition amongst my peers wasn’t hostile but motivating and inspiring. The best part for me was that school wasn’t boring or unchallenging anymore. I was no longer the top student in the class and that helped me grow as a person. I had to work diligently to earn good grades. As @Albion stated in her post, I was finally allowed to show a passion for learning.
I don’t think you can go wrong with most of the day schools and boarding school that are available, whether secondary or top. The experience becomes what you make of it in the end. Students can thrive in both types of schools.
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@seriousswweetie – great post, thanks so much. The same thing happens to my son. He has very few “academic peers” and when he joined the Robotics team, it turned out the other super smart kid and his 3 friends had set everything up so they were the “core team” and no one else could do anything. My son, who has extensive knowledge of Java, was given Legos to play with! When I talked to the teacher, she did nothing about it. Turns out one of kids’ moms was acting as a “team mom” and orchestrated the whole thing! And later I realized these kids were being competitive toward my son…not sharing information, etc.
Just hoping that someday he can be with academic peers. He loves learning and is very worldly (reads constantly) and knows so much about so many things, and wants to find peers like him.
sunnyschool, my son had the same experience with the robotics team at his current school. The team dad would have the team meet at his house on the weekends and after school and not include everyone who was supposed to be on the team - it was actually the parent that excluded certain kids and it seemed to me, he was excluding any kid who posed a “threat” to his son because he wanted his son to be the star. I couldn’t believe it and my son eventually dropped out. I complained to the school but they didn’t do anything about it. This happened last year and in hindsight, I wish I had confronted the team dad but I was too intimidated since we were new at the school … I guess these things don’t happen in my small town but happens elsewhere too. Very sad …
@CLNMOM, probably for the resource-poor school, it was either put up with the dad’s unfairness or not having a robotics team at all.
@CLNMOM and @SculptorDad - yep same exact thing happened to my son. The “Team Mom” did the same as your “Team Dad”. Lots of private meetings, I found out later from the teacher. So they milked it by then getting donations from the school to go to the “International Robotics Championships” on school funding – and even asked all team members (those that could only “Play Legos”) to fundraise for them! I called them out on it at that point…ummm I already donated $25 for him to join the club, and he isn’t invited on the trip, so NO we are not going to fundraise for you! Even the School Council denied them funding once they figured out. And guess what, now those 5 kids are off on their own doing Robotics on a “private team” vs. joining the High school team. I think the reason for that is they didn’t want to be low on totem pole at High School, where they’d be given minor roles as Upperclassmen led the team. I really thought the whole situation was inappropriate, and bad leadership.
sunnyschool, it is really shocking for me when parents behave badly. sorry you had that experience but you were braver than I. I guess I’m old school and naive …
Active parental volunteers always have favored nation status. They are the principal’s “teacher’s pet”. I have seen this happen in youth sports also. The life lesson I have taken away from it is that you need to figure out how to work into the inner circle or you will always be on the outside trying to break in.
@laenen True, but we have also attended an elementary school where the principal hated parents in the school. And I hear that’s becoming more common in this era of standardized testing and school security.
@sunnyschool – In our school our principal is like that for most parents but she has a core group that she trusts and keeps around. Everything has to flow through them.
This is terrible. I can’t believe these stories!
Every school is your first choice… until you get into one
No matter if it is second tier or first tier or other tiers
PA offers no standardized test preparation