Questioning not retaking SAT?

<p>Colleges haven’t been evaluating the writing scores for long enough to do that kind of analysis, and my impression is that many are still discounting the writing scores. My kids proved they could write through stellar AP scores in history, teacher recommendations, and the application essays themselves. They each took the SAT twice and when their writing scores didn’t improve we moved on. I think the OP’s kid has fine scores and other things that far outweigh some perceived weakness in writing. (Which I think is only a measure of one’s ability to write a rough draft on a subject of little interest to oneself.)</p>

<p>Even sending in identical applications except for the scores proves little as I truly believe that yes or no votes depend a lot on who gets the first read of an application, what other applications were read just before, and the overall mood of the committee on any particular day.</p>

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<p>Inform, maybe. But affect? In some cases, not very much. That’s where the individual analysis comes in. The fact that a single factor benefits the average member of the overall group by a certain amount does not mean it benefits every member of the group, or every subgroup within the overall group, by the same amount. </p>

<p>It may depend on how we divide up the group. In some cases, the stats of the overall group can be completely irrelevant to a subset of that group. For example, if you attend a school which has an articulation agreement with a university, say Cornell, it is completely irrelevant to you what the overall stats of the typical accepted transfer student are. As long as you meet certain requirements you will be admitted. So you are a member of the transfer student group, but you are also a member of a particular subgroup for which the overall stats don’t matter.</p>

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I agree, which is why I don’t think the OP’s son needs to retake. If he were an Asian male from the Northeast with standard ECs, my answer might be different.</p>

<p>^^^
Oh, okay. Never mind. I agree.</p>

<p>But this isn’t right. Does race really have anything to do with that or is it culture? And why punish a group of incredibly hard working students by setting the bar higher?</p>

<p>I’ve had an incredibly long response to the complex issue that my original question sparked. Just because my son is 1/2 Puerto Rican, he can shoot a little less high, correct?</p>

<p>This is the mindset that I am fighting here at home. Oh no, not the mindset that he’s 1/2 PR-because we, his parents are white and his ethnicity, while staring at you in the face, has had little to do with his accomplishments or lack thereof-rather, it is the lower middle class/working class mindset, the Christian homeschooling mindset (will explain), the community mindset that we fight against. It has nothing or virtually nothing to do with his race.</p>

<p>If we take the example above, An Asian male from the Northeast, we begin with the question, “Why do we expect more from him?” The answer might be because many (most) Asian cultures value achievement, hard work and success and it is a disgrace to do anything less than your very best. Add to that, because of the mindset, many Asian males from the Northeast are well off white collar workers who can afford the very best in schools, test prep, extra curriculars, and more. It is simply expected of them and therefore, they perform.</p>

<p>This begs a couple of questions: Why do schools penalize this? If it’s in the culture and it’s a mindset and schools want this kind of high achievement, why not <em>reward</em> this (and I believe Caltech does, based on the demographics I’ve seen; I think they are a school that does not do any sort of affirmative action).</p>

<p>The second question in my mind is: What if schools are actually looking for something a little bit <em>different</em>? What if they’re not just looking for a cookie cutter pattern of achievement but are looking for something else, a little less definable than numbers? A little more creative? A little more “out of the box”? For such schools, then, it would make sense that a 2400 from such an amazing and high performing student isn’t necessarily going to make the grade; there’s more to students-humans-than numbers. Still, the numbers need to be in the ballpark because work at the top schools, or honors colleges, is difficult.</p>

<p>Now, back to my son. I fight against laziness, an attitude that has, in the past, relied on natural ability over hard work. The roots can be found, no doubt in our own mistakes of talking about giftedness and others noticing these gifts and praising the gifts rather than the hard work.</p>

<p>But just as insidious (sp?) is the working class mindset that seeps in. “Look around. No one else is working that hard. Everyone else is going to the local community college or local Christian college. Dad’s got a decent income delivering packages. My friends all like to hang out and party. My baseball friends don’t study too much. My music freinds just want to play music.” Etc, etc, etc.</p>

<p>I don’t bash my husband. As I’ve said before, I am deeply grateful for his steady job, our benefits, and a decent income. Many others have far less. However, my son does not have two parents with great educational backgrounds and impressive jobs to model-a truck driver and an ex-public school teacher who was a pretty poor student are not the role models one would want. My husband works very, very hard and this my kids see but they also see that he is about safety-where can you go to college that we don’t have to pay since we don’t have the money? Up until last year, he was definitely wanting to guide our son towards the local Christian college that could offer a free ride.</p>

<p>Ok, so now back to my original question of whether or not to retake a 2320. My son is beginning to learn how to work hard. He has Asian friends at the math circle (who joke that he lives on the wrong side of the tracks and truly, he comes from one place and they another) and he and I talk about their work ethic. Interestingly, he has inspired several to work harder because he’d been taking college courses for some time and they wanted to know about that. They come from private schools, white collar families, and they work harder than my son. He and a friend are basically the same age but different grades and they have accomplished similar feats in physics but his friend made USJMO this year. My son said he could have done that. I said, “but you didn’t and that’s the point. You blew your chance last year because you didn’t study hard enough.” </p>

<p><em>I</em> want to break that mentality of his. If he truly wants to apply to these colleges, he needs to really learn the value of hard work. He needs to ignor the calling to “hang out” with friends as much as he does, and he needs to consider seriously whether a 2320 is “good enough”. He is a Renaissance kid of sorts-has many interests, many loves, and follows them all-but he must temper his passions with lots and lots of hard work. We don’t value achievement for achievement’s sake. We value it because God is honored by hard work and not laziness. <em>This</em> is the point my son has to learn.</p>

<p>To end this long diatribe, I will say that he most likely will <em>not</em> retake. He has the October test date (he’ll be at ARML in June) where he will be taking his 4th SAT II and most likely retaking his 730 Literature SAT II (And we decided against a 5th SAT II because it’s simply too much to ask of him-period). There are battles to win and lose. It’s possible he could retake in November but that would be too late for his EA school. He could have studied from his $13 SAT book a little harder and maybe this whole point would be moot.</p>

<p>Five SAT II’s? Why so many? He’s fine. If it were anything, but the Writing I might say sure try again, but the Writing is a stupid test IMO and not very highly valued by most colleges either. If he got a 730 in Lit, and 750+ in Reading he’s already proved he’s no slouch in the verbal department. I think it’s time for him to spend time on the things he enjoys (that may also look good on applications). </p>

<p>I do understand where you are coming from. My oldest was smart enough to be the val in his school, but he wasn’t motivated to be. Luckily he was plenty motivated in the thing he enjoyed (Computer programming) that he’s now graduating from college with a degree from a great school and with a dream job in hand. The fact that he got a 690 in Writing (twice) is water under the bridge. He’s landed where he wanted to be and he had a good time getting there.</p>

<p>As a matter of strategy, there are better uses of his time than retaking a 2320. If that’s because he’s a URM, so what? If he were seven feet tall and athletic, he also wouldn’t need to retake a 2320.</p>

<p>Mathmom,</p>

<p>Good for your son! That’s the kind of story I like to hear. Water under the bridge-yes, those SAT scores will be a distant memory some day. (Although my son teases me about my abysmal SAT scores)</p>

<p>Hunt, yes, there are definitely better uses of my son’s time. And I guess if he was a legacy, he wouldn’t retake it, either. Point taken.</p>

<p>He did hit his first home run on Tuesday. Hard work in the batting cages paid off. :-)</p>