<p>I don’t know about everywhere else but at my school engineering majors describe 110-119 credits one needs to take (some of that leaves some choices, for instance you chose 1 course from 3 different categories, given 4 categories of 5 courses each).</p>
<p>Math majors have 43 described credits (many given in the same manner, chose from a list) and the BA/BS degree describes some more (I’m not sure how many, but I’d guess in the range of ~30) but allows more flexibility (IE. 7 credits of humanities). </p>
<p>I didn’t look up Physics but I believe it to be similar to Math. At my school, engineering majors have far more requirements than Math and Physics majors.</p>
<p>I meant no disrespect. Please accept my apologies for a poor choice of words. </p>
<p>My point was that 4-yr engineering majors preclude obtaining a broad liberal arts education. If you have enough APs that you’ve effectively carved out a lot of open spaces, then yes, you could probably have both. I think it’s by no means the norm. </p>
<p>I wanted to make a quick comment regarding the option to start in general studies/arts&sciences/what ever it’s called at your U and take classes that first year engineering students would. You need to check to see if this would work at a specific university. At many schools there are classes that are restricted only to engineering students.</p>
I’m not a mathematician and never took this course, but what he is studying with his math tutor sounds like the same thing as the course the prof recommended. But yes, I think it is something relevant to engineering, and probably the type of mathematically rigorous engineering work your son would be doing if he chose that as a career. It sounds similar to the type of thing that would be used for digital signal processing for example.</p>
<p>As a high school junior your kid has already completed the physics most students take as a college sophmore or junior. My personal opinion is that for people very gifted in math and physics, it doesn’t really matter that much what they major in. At that level of inquiry, the various definitions of “occupation” and “major department” sort of blend together. Yes, I know there are differences, but these type of people seem to move seamlessly between the disciplines. What he is probably going to be looking for very quickly is an area of study to concentrate on for his doctorate, while filling out his schedule with interesting courses and completing his degree. I think math is a perfectly good choice of major for whatever he wants to do. JMHO. YMMV.</p>
<p>Classic - Harvey Mudd college in Claremont CA consortium (with Pomona etc) does include more liberal arts classes than most eng colleges. And Mudd students can pick the any of the 5 Claremont Colleges for those courses. But Mudd is it still a super-intense techie education (not sure when those kids sleep), it’s probably not what you had in mind. (It appealed to my son, but by that point he was really focused on the STEM priorities). Still thought it was worth mentioning. </p>
<p>sbjdorlo - It sounds like your son has had some very advanced courses. That can limit choice because you’ll want someplace with super-intense undergrad focus and/or a place that allows him to start taking grad courses early. But he is lucky he has sampled some college level classes. That helps. And he has met profs who may be able to make suggestoins based on their observations of his talents. Good luck!</p>
<p>colorado-mom has a good point. The S needs a school with graduate departments in these fields. A lot of LAC’s do not have that. He will also need a mentor or advisor very early to guide him in a suitable direction.</p>
<p>Depends on the college. DD got an engineering degree from the College of Engineering at Santa Clara University. SCU has a very strong core cores requirement that DD was required to fulfill. Since she also got a biology degree at the same time, she was required to fulfill the core requirements for both college of engineering and college of arts and sciences (yes…there was significant overlap…thank goodness…but there were some differences too). </p>
<p>DD said frequently that her core course requirements were a welcome change from her STEM classes. She looked forward each term to taking these courses in other areas of study.</p>
<p>AND NO I don’t think SCU’s engineering program would be considered “lite”…and neither did DH who is an engineer.</p>
<p>DD also had time to participate in the university orchestra for four years, and take instrument lessons as well.</p>
<p>And she graduated in four years (took OChem during three summer terms one summer but that was the only “extra” term).</p>
<p>Thanks, ClassicRockerDad - sorry if my post came off a little strong, but I find that kind of thinking to be a common misconception about engineering!</p>
<p>I came in with AP credit that allowed me to pass out of one semester of calculus and one semester of programming. I don’t think that’s a lot. Maybe it is to others. Whether I had that credit or not, I would still be able to devote half or nearly half of my studies to non-STEM classes. I don’t find that too restrictive, personally, but understand that others may!</p>
<p>In actual practice, it is likely that engineering majors take a broader liberal arts education than most students of non-science majors. While engineering majors (as well as science majors) have to take math and science for their major, and humanities and social studies for breadth requirements, at most schools, non-science majors have to take only minimal science courses of the “physics for poets” or “rocks for jocks” type.</p>
<p>The worm was a STEM person, but was hesitant to commit to a School of Computer Science (e.g. at CMU) or engineering program. It was preferable to go to a tech school with strong core. By the 5th physics class, he eliminated pysics. He shifted between 2 majors, and now is in grad school in an interdisciplinary program.</p>
<p>UCBAlum; for the tech kids, there are English classes e.g. Scientific Writing & ScyFi literature.</p>
<p>Actually, scientific or technical writing courses would be useful. Most writing courses are humanities-centric, as if they are trying to double up literature breadth requirements on basic writing skills requirements. It may make more sense to split these requirements – for a STEM major, being able to communicate STEM ideas effectively to both STEM and non-STEM audiences is very useful. Same for other non-humanities majors. Literature courses can then be designated as a separate breadth requirement if the school feels that such courses are important for a well rounded liberal arts education.</p>
<p>The OP’s question is what is the best choice for a kid who is not sure about major: engineering or math/physics. In order to make this easy, I think the kid should not choose a college that requires the major declaration or school specific on the application. Also, the kid is advanced in STEM subjects and needs more time to explore areas of interest. I think MIT, Caltech should be included in the college list.</p>
<p>Agree with Coolweather. Apply to schools that do have Colleges of Engineering but accept applications only to the entire University. This freedom to choose clinched the deal for my DD. Stanford comes to mind here, and of the Ivies, Princeton, Harvard, Brown and Yale.</p>
<p>“. Apply to schools that do have Colleges of Engineering but accept applications only to the entire University.” - That sounds like a good idea. It gives good flexibility and also allows the student to not get too concerned if major preference is still emerging. </p>
<p>If you can’t find enough college that meet the criteria, then look for ones where it is fairly easy to transfer out of Engineering into other areas.</p>
<p>Both sons graded in engineering in the last 3 years. Both went to good programs. Both followed the prescribed 4 year engineering curriculum and both had only a small handful of non engineering, math, science courses. Two sons, two schools, they took a grad total to 4 elective courses each over eight semesters. Engineering is hard core. (Maybe too much so).</p>
<p>^Hmm, there is obviously a wide variety in engineering programs, then. That sounds extremely limited. I have already taken 3 elective class (have only finished freshman year), and will be taking 5 this upcoming year. I will be taking plenty in my junior and senior year as well. Again, I only passed out of 2 classes with AP credit. </p>
<p>Also, Princeton was mentioned as a school where one can go in totally undeclared - not completely true; I had to designate that I was applying for the BSE and write an extra essay on why I was interested. I think it’s pretty easy to make the switch there, though.</p>
<p>^ Some colleges require rigid sequences of classes for engineering majors. Some colleges list the prerequites for engineering classes but don’t really enforce. My son skipped some prerequites for the engineering classes he took at MIT and he did fine. I also have the impression that my engineering program at the UC required more classes than the equivalent program at MIT.</p>
<p>There IS an essay on engineering and a question about intended major in engineering on the Princeton application. But, I think that if you go back and look at the application, it clearly states that it is for informational purposes only. Acceptance to Princeton is to the University NOT the college of engineering. CMU like Cornell, Penn and Columbia require an application to the College of Engineering, and if you change your major, you must transfer out of the College of Engineering. In contrast, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard and Brown don’t even require any declaration of major until sophomore year. This was something that my DD hadn’t really focused on when applying last year, but when it came down to choosing in April, she realized that this was an issue for her.</p>
<p>“^Hmm, there is obviously a wide variety in engineering programs, then” - Definitely true! That’s why it is so nice to have online resources for research. </p>
<p>For my engineering classes (Clarkson, early 1980s) it seemed like there was usually one “break course” per semester. These were electives for humanities, economics etc. They were not necessarily easy (in fact at this college many students were math/science geeks and found them very hard). But it was nice to have a change of pace from all of the problem sets. Typical courseload was 5 courses, 3 credits each.</p>