Hello! I had some general questions about how course rigor is evaluated in college admissions:
Do highly-competitive colleges want you to take every AP you can, even if they’re in subjects you’re not interested in pursuing? (eg. Taking AP Comp. Sci even if you’re a future philosophy major, dislike comp. sci, and would rather take a philosophy class that doesn’t happen to offer AP credit)
How much worth does an applicant’s course rigor have compared to a “spike”? Eg. if you had a student who had a phenomenal talent/extracurricular but only 4/10APs, and another student without a phenomenal talent/extracurricular who had 8/10APs, would they be on equal footing? Or would the second student be a better candidate because they had a more rigorous schedule?
Definitely not. But I agree with skieurope that a diverse selection is good. At my kids’ schools its not even possible to take all the APs offered due to scheduling constraints. I don’t think colleges will read too much into exactly what is offered and what you took as long as your schedule has been rigorous overall. (Note: I am not an expert, just well-read parent).
There is no expectation from colleges, that a student takes ALL AP’s offered, certainly not 20+, assuming they can fit them in their schedule. Also, taking additional AP exams (without taking the corresponding class, is not worthwhile (unless you are planning to go to school that offers all AP credit)
Best thing is to take APs in all core subjects if you can (IMO, CS or Philosophy are not core subjects).
AP Lang, APUSH, WHAP, AP Foreign Lang, Calc AB/BC, AP Science ( Bio, Chem, Phy - all 3 APs may not be possible , do the best you can)
The person to ask is your guidance counselor, not any one of us. Rigor is relative to what is offered in your HS. The top tier colleges will want to see the guidance counselor check the box on the recommendation saying you have taken the most rigorous course-load available at your HS (which doesn’t mean taking every AP class – there is often some latitude in this). If the guidance counselor says that your prior and current HS schedules are sufficient to get that most rigorous box checked then you are fine.
In terms of ECs versus course rigor unless you have an EC with a major hook (ex. recruited quarterback for football team) then as a general rule I would rank academics (including course rigor) above ECs. Of course every college and every admissions officer can see things a bit differently.
All 3 (assuming by “phys” you mean Physics C, since I put Physic 1 close to the lite category) are not necessary, even for a STEM kid. Choosing 2 of bio/chem/physics C are more than enough for any STEM kid, and even then should not be done if it impacts another core subject.
For highly competitive colleges, I’d add gov/econ if they are graduation requirements. While neither is particularly challenging per se, taking a non-AP version when an AP version is available may raise an eyebrow. On the flip side, I would not stress out about WH if it’s not a grad requirement, except in the common case where it’s the only (or one of the few) option for a freshman/sophomore.
Philosophy typically is a rigorous class in its own right even if it’s not an AP. So it wouldn’t be a problem.
However a future philosophy major should have as many Humanities/social Science APs as feasible + AP stats or calc ab + AP physics 1 if offered, or APES + physics (or Ap bio).
As for your examples, 4 APs would be considered light (6-8 would be better, total, with ~3 each senior and junior year) and having no exceptional EC a big problem. Neither case would likely get into a top 25 LAC/university.
But if the first case pushed to 6 well chosen APs in addition not the great ECs then their odds would improve over the student with 8 APs and no significant EC.
Generally you might want an an English AP, 2 Social Studies APs, one of the Calculus APs, 2 science APs and maybe a few more to reflect your interests or because everyone going to selective colleges take them. Though both my kids skipped English APs even though it was unusual for the top students not to take them and did very well. Older one maxed out on science APs and took Econ and AP Latin and extra math. Younger son took all the history APs. I think my older son took 8 plus Linear Algebra and got into Harvard. He had some pretty heavy duty CS experience however.
In addition to humanities and social studies, more math and CS may be a good thing for a prospective philosophy major, due to practice in logical thinking.
It is best not to skip core courses like precalculus, biology/chemistry/physics, or foreign language level 3 and 4 just to take AP electives, particularly the lighter ones like environmental science, statistics, psychology, human geography.
ECs are used to select between well-qualified applicants. If your course rigor is lacking (eg. GC isn’t checking the “most rigorous” box) then you’re pretty much out of the running at very selective colleges, and ECs won’t rescue you. A “hook” will if you’re an athletic or financial recruit.
Highly competitive? You want more than minimums. I’d say, both Engl AP, all 3 histories (world, Euro, US, 2 could be AP,) calc, then all 3 lab sci, at least one at AP level. Plus meet lang recommendations. Top grades and AP scores. That’s the CYA.
But depending on major, the expectations will flex. Eg, more math-sci for stem.
That would cover the academic side. No assumed superiority in ECs can check the academic accomplishment box.
Of course, there are anecdotes, someone who didn’t take X or Y and got in. That’s not what you count on.
Some of it depends on your major. I’m more familiar with STEM programs, with my 2 kids. One English AP was fine for them. At our school more than one science AP is tough, though we’re fitting in two with our youngest with a summer program. Two math AP is standard for our honors program (youngest will fit in 3) as is three history/SS, though I think 2 would be fine. I don’t think language AP is important, if you have 4 years in without it (as we do). 3-4 others (CS, Psych, Econ, etc.), would round it out. This would be 8-10+ for the top schools, which I think is fine. My younger got into a very good 2nd tier school with 4.
Thank you so much everyone! I’ll respond to as much as I can— I’m surprised by how much feedback I got (and I’m very grateful for it).
For context, I’m actually hoping to major in either English or Art (possibly both)- I’m definitely a Humanities kid. The philosophy situation I mentioned was a hypothetical example— I should’ve clarified that.
I will have completed 5 APs by the end of senior year (the rest of my schedule is all honors classes). Some of the APs offered at my school that I didn’t take are in STEM-related subjects (I’m not going to pursue STEM). I was wondering about how my number of APs would be perceived by Ivies/T20 schools, and that’s what ultimately prompted me to make this post.
Follow-up question: Are there any other points in the admissions process where officers look at the specific courses you’re taking? (eg. Student says they’re majoring in English —> Admissions officers look at schedule, look for English-oriented electives that support student’s future major)
Thanks!
That’s probably a bad example,since every US applicant will need to present 4 years of English. But certainly a potential English major applying to a highly competitive university would have one, if not both, AP English courses if available. An engineering applicant would be expected to have AP calc, if available, etc.
They know what major(s) you indicated as they begin to read. So yes, they view you in that context. But the larger context for T20 schools is the fierce competition among applicants, more than plenty who maxed out their hs courses. And yes, in addition to the right roundng in rigorous courses, they want to see relevant ECs.
You can find their recommendations on the colleges’ web sites. Each may word it differently, but the rule of thumb is 4 lab science (bio, chem, physics, one at AP level,) 4 math. Yes, even for humanities majors. The only out is when the hs doesn’t offer some course.
“Spike” is more a CC concept. Top 20 colleges can like a show of being willing to get ut of your own box. After all, they want kids who try new things, oncein college, have that openness. In some cases, being called “spikey” is not an advantage at all.
I had some general questions about how course rigor is evaluated in college admissions:
The philosophy situation I mentioned was a hypothetical example— I should’ve clarified that.