<p>Might I direct you here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=189963%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=189963</a></p>
<p>you two seem to have a lot in common. Stop thinking about what the service academies can do for YOU. One of the fourteen leadership traits we had to memorize is UNSELFISHNESS. In all of your posts I saw nothing but I want, I want, I want, me, me, me. You need a serious attitude adjustment.</p>
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"However, I still contend that the SA's should not be looked at as a primary means of becoming a doctor if that is your goal (rather than being an officer). "</p>
<p>Absolutely agreed.
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</p>
<p>That's all I'm saying. It sounds to me that godfather is looking at one vs. both.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If someone is not 'allowed' to go to medical school directly out of an Academy they can simply apply the next year or even after if they still want to go to medical school. So if you want to go to medical school don't be dissuaded from going to a service academy. It will not be easy wherever you go, going to a service academy will add another small hurdle to your path.
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</p>
<p>Absolutely true about re-applying. Question is, will the Navy pay for it (I don't know how picky they are on top of the medical schools), and is the applicant willing to accept the 15-20 year commitment?</p>
<p>IMO, most folks who want to be doctors first and foremost don't have a military career in mind. If, however, they have BOTH in mind, then I agree with you that a SA is a great place to start, provided you know what you're getting into.</p>
<p>I just don't want people to think that just going to Medical School after USXA is a common or easy thing.</p>
<p>Godfather I totally agree with Candidatemom. Remember this from your prior post...</p>
<p>"Hoping to go to medical school, I'm going to be a Bio major, not because I think it will get me in, but because I absolutely love Biology.</p>
<p>Colleges: Vanderbilt, Emory, Georgia Tech, Baylor, Rice, Wash U, UVA, Duke, William and Mary, don't want to go too far from home so the last four are probably not at the top of my list. I live in Georgia"</p>
<p>What has changed? The fact that you want to go to college for free SHOULD NOT be a factor that tips the scales towards attending a service academy. This never entered into my son's mind, nor mine, and I highly dought that it is a factor in other candidates minds. Service academies require a degree of committment that other colleges do not demand. If this is the reason behind your selection, then you are setting yourself up to fail.</p>
<p>If your financial situation is not very good, there are other avenues available to you by way of aid, loans, and scholarships that you can access in order to open up the doors to college.</p>
<p>Military doctors are awesome. Mine is a 20 year Army guy who is about as lovable as a rattle snake. He slugged me once right after stitching up my hand when I'd tried to lob it off with the hedge clippers. Then told me to get on the scales cause he thought I'd gained wait. Sheez. I fully expect him to beat me for eating red meat the next time I go in for a flu shot. I hope that the Godfather is taking much of what everyone is saying to heart. Service Academies aren't for everyone. Doing some research, he might find it isn't for him. Then again, he might find that it is. Being dedicated enough to becoming a doctor is an admirable thing in itself I think. To try for it through a service academy, is pretty much insane unless he's got the true desire to become an officer first. I think everyone just wants him to see inside the commitment service academies are intended for. He came here to find some answers and I think he's just unaware of what SA's really are. I remember a time knowing of them but not about them. It took a few years of looking into what my kid was wanting, to learn. Maybe we should just give him some time to look into it to understand it better. Don't beat me up too badly for saying that. I am just hoping that he will find his answers and that he will dig deep & truly find he wants to serve this country in the manner of dedication that all of you guys have. We need more fine young people who desire to step up to the plate & accomplish great things.</p>
<p>godfather,</p>
<p>I'm usually one of the first parents to tell other kids with the same goals that you have, that the service academies may not be the place for them. However, you came here for answers to your questions. You have received some great advice and now have a lot of research of your own to begin. </p>
<p>If you are a rising senior in high school, make good use of your summer. Research all of the schools in which you have an interest, including the service academies. Request information. Talk to students/alumni from any of these schools who can give you some more insight. Visit where you can. You're looking at very selective schools, including the SA's and that is an indicator that you're a pretty smart kid. Find out what you can. If you think that you'd like to attend a service academy and have a military career, your own research will lead you to the right academy. Do you want to fly, lead soldiers in combat, be a military physician? </p>
<p>I'm sure you know that many, many college students change their major during college. You may also. You will encounter professors, students and other opportunities that could take you in a completely different direction. You may very well change your major and interest in pursuing medicine as a career. </p>
<p>Please understand that when parents and SA candidates think that an individual sees a SA as a way to go to college for free, there is a feeling that you are belittling the commitment of these highly qualified candidates. I don't think that's what you meant to do, but that is the reason for some of the strong language regarding your goal. As others have said, we're here to answer your questions. Find out if this is for you or not, but know that a service academy is not just free pre-med college.</p>
<p>USMA</p>
<p>The Chemistry and Life Sciences Major has a Medical School Option </p>
<p>The last two posts have actually been of help, thank you both very much, I can't really seem to get much of that around here.</p>
<p>As for the rest of you, I feel like I've been called cocky, I know I've been called "callous," and I'm taking a beating over my morals, and my reasons for wanting to attend a service academy.</p>
<p>I've explained over and over again it's not all about the prestige. It's just nice that service academies are prestigious, yet they don't cost anything. I am interested in being in the military, otherwise why the hell would I commit myself to a school that would legally force me to serve in the military?</p>
<p>With all due respect, I think you people know that almost anyone with common sense doesn't take the risk of getting his brains blown out just for free college.</p>
<p>If anyone would like to actually be helpful, as the last two posters so kindly were, please post here.</p>
<p>If you want to bash my morals, and disparage someone you don't even know, or freak out that I'm in the early college process (hence I'm considering Emory and Vanderbilt and asking my chances at others), then please just don't post here. I don't need a moral lesson, I don't need a rude shove in a different direction.</p>
<p>I'm not asking for help in choosing a college. I'm asking what is involved in attempting to attend a service academy. So far I've learned the obvious fact that to go to college free means I have to serve in the military, which apparently I've also learned I don't want to do, according to some people here. I've learned that it's tough to get in, I also knew that.</p>
<p>I asked a total of three easy questions. I've received two replies with something of an answer.</p>
<p>Thank you, I just had a tough day at school too, so sorry if I've caused anyone grief with all that. I hope you didn't read it until the end, that would be a waste because I was pretty repetitive.</p>
<p>Godfather "Anyway, which service academies would best suit me? What are the service academies looking for? What if I'm not a varsity quarter back, and have never ran on the track team?"</p>
<p>"I asked a total of three easy questions. I've received two replies with something of an answer."</p>
<ol>
<li>Most of the answers were in reference to question 1. Given your stated profile and motivation, people were telling you that unless you were 100% committed to being in the military, that none of the academies should be on your list. This was not a moral judgement just good advice. </li>
<li>Academies work off a "whole candidate score": academics, athletics and leadership. Do a seach for whole candidate score and you will find all the information you need. Napsmom gave you good advice.</li>
<li>Not every applicant is a varsity quarterback, or track team member, but the characteristics of a good athlete are those that are also also needed in a good leader: competitiveness, willingness to never give up, teamwork etc. Do a search and you will find much discussion on this topic.</li>
</ol>
<p>Godfather,</p>
<p>I'm glad you found some value here. People here have a lot of knowledge about the service academy applications process and what it takes to be a successful candidate and cadet/mid. However, these boards are really a bit different from any of the other college boards on cc. We love ALL the academies (even when our athletic teams play each other). Your quotes below sound defiant and belligerent, which is why people are reacting the way they are. Sometimes we don't think about how others will react to our electronic notes. There is no tone of voice or facial expression. Also, you're talking to strangers, not buddies.</p>
<p>"Perhaps you should read more carefully before wasting your carpals with all that typing."</p>
<p>"Anyone care to answer my questions?"</p>
<p>Parents, alumni, current cadets/mids, and successful candidates spend time here in order to help individuals like you who have questions. I know you're surprised by some of the replies, but please try to tone down your language and be a bit more respectful towards others. </p>
<p>I hope you do your research as suggested, and come back with some good questions and discussion for us. We'd love to help you both through the admissions process and also through the decision making process of whether or not you would like to attend a service academy. Watch your tone (a good habit anyway), listen to what others are saying, and we'll be happy to help you out.</p>
<p>Oh, I actually would have included you in my mention of helpful posters, sorry I forgot to. Ever since I expressed my grievances the post quality has increased though.</p>
<p>If you decide to go to an academy, the USCGA might fit your goals. The Coast Guard does a lot in the way of lifesaving/medical work. (Not that I am an expert on the USCG, so ask some people who know more about the CG and USCGA.) </p>
<p>Try to get past the negetive attitudes in the responses. Your original post had a few red flags in it. If you look, there is a lot of good advice there. Maybe you could post some of your other reasons for possibly choosing a SA.</p>
<p>Not having ANY sports for ECs will hurt you a bit. However, the only organized sport I participated in was varsity tennis. If you have strong leadership, good test scores, improving grades, and do well on the physical tests, you will have a strong shot at getting in. (No one does everything well, but they are looking for that "well-rounded individua.l")</p>
<p>I am surpirsed Bill is not here with the return to capistrano jokes, so will have to chime in.</p>
<p>So many colleges to choose from- so many great choices- which road to take- do I stand a chance....choices, choices, choices. And tough decisions.</p>
<p>You said you wanted to be a physician. Good for you. The work is hard, the hours are long, and the pay is not what it used to be, but if that is your calling, by all means go for it. Our plumber makes more money than our urologist, and our carptenter certainly makes more than our general surgeon, but who cares- they still get good tables at the resturants and preferred parking at the hospital- but other than that, our surgeon lives right next door to our carpenter (who has the nicest house I might add) and their kids go to the same school...so whatever floats your boat. The good news is that you have a goal, and now all you have to do is figure out how best to achieve it.</p>
<p>You like biology- that is good. Lots of colleges/universities, etc. offer biology majors- so the choices are still wide open. What else do you like? Big campus? Little one? Big D-1 athletics or the performance center at Yale? City life or farm country? Cold or hot? Town or isolation? Near to home or as far away as you can get? It all has to factor in.</p>
<p>Biology leading to medical school: ok, well, might want to consider looking at WHAT medical school, and what undergrad schools they get most of their applicants from....many med schools (thinking cornell, nyu) pick directly from their own undergrad programs to a higher degree than outside programs- just something else to consider. And while you are at it, look at the acceptance rate TO medical school FROM the particular undergrad program you are attending- do they get 80% into their top 3 choices, or are the rates sitting somewhere around 15%? Gotta do that homework.</p>
<p>Academies. No cost...true, initially. But over the long haul (extensive committment after completion of academy + med school + internship + residency (and not even considering a fellowship) = long committment time). That may be OK, but don't forget to factor in a family that you may someday want and the impact on your quality of life at that point in time. Military housing is still military housing, and you don't always get to chose where you hang your hat, or where your wife will hang hers. And there will be movement- base to base, yard to yard, post to post. New schools, new adjustments. Long committment time for those docs. Just things to consider. But hey, maybe you will decide to go career military, and so the time will mean nothing; that too is an option. Lots do it.</p>
<p>Academies: ah, getting in. That is the sticky part; not so easy, and the chances are generally somewhere in the vicinity of 1:1000 for most (not all, but most). Still, you can try, but make sure to have a back-up plan in place. Sounds like you are looking at some other great schools- make sure to apply to some of them even if you do move forward with an academy.</p>
<p>Competetion. The competetion for admission to an academy is tough- thus, this site on CC continues to have the hightest postings with lots of questions and even more advice, some of it even good (Zaphod's is always steller, as is CM's, so listen up when they speak). You will need to be competetive in 3 areas: academics, physical aptitude, and leadership. Add to that a sound body and mind, for DoDMERB will certainly look for (and find) every fault, all reasons to stop your admissions process in its track. You will be competeting with lots of kids with great academics, great athletics (aka physical aptitude) and great leadership (class presidents, club leaders, eagle scouts, all state, varsity captains, etc, etc, etc). Make sure that part of your CV is just as steller in its own right....true for any competetive college, academy or otherwise, that you are seeking.</p>
<p>Do your homework. Not school assignments, but research homework on every school you are considering, military or civilian. Get your hands on a copy of Smallwood's "Guide to ..............." (fill in the blank of your favorite military academy) and read it cover to cover. The academies are a distinct entity amongst themselves- and they may / may not meet your goals and objectives that you have set for yourself. So do as much research and reading as you can. Visit them. Attend information sessions. Take the tours. Visit the ones you like a second and even a third time. Talk to EVERYONE you see, not just the tour guides. Sit in the cafeteria and start asking questions. What do they like best about the place- what would they change if they could. Refine your list and narrow it down. Stay overnight at your final selections. Make sure it feels "right" to you (who cares what we think). </p>
<p>And when you decide, no matter where it is, give your admission application your best effort. Don't worry about what other applicants have to offer- worry about what you are bringing to the table. Bring YOUR best marks, YOUR best SAT scores, YOUR best ECA's, YOUR best essay.....and make sure that each and every school that is on your list is one that you would be happy to attend. We all hope you will get your first choice (everyone has their favorites)...but don't waist the admisson boards time, and most importantly, don't waste YOUR time on a program/school that does not hold your absolute interest....it will only distract from your top choices, so put your attention there.</p>
<p>You have heard that the academies might not be the best route for a medical degree. I would have to say that it would not be my first choice if I were going that direction, but that is not to say it can't be done or that you should not consider it- just know going in that it is NOT a guarentee (your chances are better elsewhere), and the chances may be good that you DO NOT GET that sought-after medical billet that you desire. THEN WHAT. Will you be happy being a sub captain or a navigational officer or a nuclear tactical officer or a grounds force officer? Because that is what an academy is here to do- </p>
<p>Read those missions. They develop leaders. They develop military officers. None of them boast about their preparation of medical doctors. (Yes, they are needed to, but that is not the MISSION) The devil is always in the details. </p>
<p>Whatever you do, try and figure out where your passion lies, then do everything in your power to make it happen. If you passion is to be a MD, then find out which is the best program that you stand a chance at and set your sights there. Money might seem an overwhelming factor right now, but there are enough loan programs out there that almost every school can be in reach if you want it bad enough. So while money is a consideration, don't make it your PRIMARY consideration- it is, IMHO, way down on the list. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Oh, and just to add: a wise CC poster once said, (I will do my best to quote her): "While the education at the academy is priceless, it is hardly free." </p>
<p>Visit Memorial Hall. Several names have been added since our own son started on this journey. Think about the price they paid. Now think about the price you are willing to pay. Those that will apply, gain appointments, and stick it out to commissioning will have that degree of passion and desire.....do you? I can honestly say I am not sure of what I would do if in your shoes- but what I can say is that we put the same question to our son. </p>
<p>I sincerely wish you well. Such a tough decision at 17 years old, what to do with the rest of your life. But chose wisely young grasshopper, so that you don't have a lifetime of regretting your choice!</p>
<p>navy2010,</p>
<p>You've been very helpful, thanks for all the information. All I have to complain about is that I definitely know what's involved in the military. If I wasn't audacious, if I wasn't willing to die for my country, if I wasn't at all interested in the military, then I wouldn't be looking at service academies. Yes, I could end up on the memorial wall, or I could end up back home a decorated officer, and at the least I could hopefully say I fought for something I believed in.</p>
<p>One thing I do worry about is how long we will be involved in Iraq, if I had to serve there I don't know how much I'd like it, I haven't done a ton of research, but from what I do know, I'm not really supporting our actions there.</p>
<p>navy2010,</p>
<p>Outstanding post! Kudos to you!</p>
<p>Godfather-Forgive me if this sounds harsh; it is not my intention. Please understand that I am coming from the perspective of the wife of a career navy man, the mother of a Marine and a future midshipman. My family sort of bleeds red, white and blue.</p>
<p>From all that you have written, I do not get the sense that the military is something you would choose. My impression is that you see it as a means to an end, when for many people (my family in particular), the military is the ultimate goal. To my husband and daughters, there is no greater honor than serving our country. Even if we disagree with policy, we truly believe there is no greater country on earth. As a military officer, you would have no choice but to support whatever actions were ordered by the Commander in Chief. You don't get to pick and choose the operations.</p>
<p>So unless you can get excited about putting on that uniform (and spending months or years away from loved ones), please choose another way to achieve your goals. The sacrifices are hard enough if you really want that life. If you see it as a way to get a good education at little expense, you will be miserable every day you serve. My husband and I have spent too much time apart for me to recommend this life to anyone who wasn't positive it is what they want. Save yourself the years of heartache and find another way to fund your education. </p>
<p>Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Thanks. Viriginia Beach is a popular military place, isn't it?</p>
<p>Anyway, what I failed to mention is that I want to be a military doctor specifically. I don't know if they specialize because if they do I want to be a surgeon.</p>
<p>I think the people who need medical care the most desperately are the ones that are getting cannon balled in the head so I can sit here in America and be safe.</p>
<p>I understand it's a tough choice and I will sit down and really make a decision when the time comes, and I'm considering everything everyone says.</p>
<p>As of now I'm still interested though and trying to gather as much information as possible.</p>
<p>Godfather, I'm just another mom trying to offer words of wisdom to young men (and women) like yourself. I am not the first to pop your "ideal image" bubble of a military doctor or surgeon. It's great that you believe in your heart you want to help mend our soldiers that have been injured. But I have to ask, "where did you get the idea that the medical teams dealing with the daily "cannon ball" injuries are somewhere "safe" in America"? </p>
<p>Emergency Medicine is just that. The survival rate of a wounded soldier goes down if they are not treated quickly. The men and women wounded in this war do not get the privilege of flying home to America for medical treatment. </p>
<p>I don't want you to shut the door on this information search. The more informed you are the better. I too have a son with similar desires. However, his desire is to be a leader and serve others reguardless of the risks. This is a tough pill to swallow. If you can't see yourself in a fox hole serving our country, how can you see your self in any military capacity?</p>
<p>"I think the people who need medical care the most desperately are the ones that are getting cannon balled in the head so I can sit here in America and be safe."</p>
<p>I think he was talking about sitting here being safe right now, not being a doctor and being safe back here. Easy to see the confusion though, and I could be completely wrong too.</p>
<p>"because if they do I want to be a surgeon"</p>
<p>This explains alot ;)</p>
<p>Godfather: good for you to ferrit everything out, and more importantly, to keep an open mind and listen to what others offer. It is not easy, to defend your choice, but at the same time it is in the defense that your passion will declare itself.</p>
<p>I am glad you are looking at the military with both eyes open- not always easy admist all the brass, spit and polish, especially at the academies- but with open eyes you must, and with an eye towards your future. This is not an easy path- but should you choose to take it, good for you- you will find a lot of grateful supporters here. </p>
<p>In the meantime, keep doing your research- visit, stay, get informed. And best of luck.</p>
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wife of a career navy man, the mother of a Marine and a future midshipman. My family sort of bleeds red, white and blue.
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<p>beachmom~ I salute you. Hope you had a wonderful mothers day- cause if they gave medals out for that, it would seem you have a chest full!</p>