Questions and Concerns about College

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello. I am a Bosnian-Iraqi mom (and proud of it :)), as my username implies, living in Michigan as a US citizen. Since I have lived in Iraq for my entire youth until we fled from Saddam’s evil dictatorship and massacres, neither do I nor my husband know about the school/college system here in the United States. My son also isn’t as experienced since he is my first-born and the first one to go through this process. I have found this website after a teacher recommended it to me. Basically, we are looking for colleges for my son to apply to and we also have some concerns about college that I hope some of the helpful parents on here can alleviate. </p>

<p>My son is looking to study maths and Arabic. He is also interested in cellular biology and chemistry. He is very interested in research and schools with good laboratory facilities. He would like to study abroad as well. He is unsure about school size and location, but has expressed some worries about large schools in terms of learning environment. His ACT score is 35/36 and the GPA is I think above 4 with AP weights and a 4 without the weights. </p>

<p>He participates in extracurriculars like archery, volunteering, and science team. He doesn’t have a “dream school”, which many students at his school talk about according to him. We do not know what a “safety school” is for him or what a “match” or “reach” one is either. He has sent applications to Michigan, Case Western, and MSU. He likes them all but doesn’t show any preference to a specific one. We do not know how many he should send. The counselor recommends at least 3 and that any number over 8 should be avoided.</p>

<p>We are worried about cost since my husband, though thank God has a very good career, we still support his mother in Iraq, my two very elder sisters, and his very elder sister (all are widows unfortunately, but the sisters work in low income occupations while my husband’s mother does not work) on his income as well as our own family of 7. I do not work. Therefore, it will be difficult to pay for college for all children. Our son has told us that he is very interested in pursuing further education after college, probably graduate or possibly medical if he finds that interesting. These schools, as I understand it, are very expensive as well (usually more so than college) and lead to a lot of debt on the shoulders of the graduates. We expect none to a little financial aid. </p>

<p>Our family is also religious. We are muslim so we have certain concerns about living in a college environment: necessity of halal meat, no alcohol, no drugs, no sex, no partying, waking up early in morning for prayers will disturb roommate, etc. His personality is also non-partying as well. What are your opinions on adjusting to the college scene?</p>

<p>Finally, have any of you had problems with your child going to a “lower” college--I personally consider most if not all colleges in the US of high quality, but recognize that some are more "prestigious" than others--and other students at school mocking him/her for it? I wonder if this is a problem here because it was in Iraq after getting results of admission.</p>

<p>Do you have any other college suggestions?</p>

<p>Thank you very much. I appreciate your helpfulness and kindness and I highly value your thoughts. :)</p>

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<p>

Several campuses on our tours mentioned having stations in the cafeterias for kosher, halal, vegetarian, etc. I’m sure Michigan must accommodate Muslim strictures given the population demographics there. When it comes to the other things (alcohol, sex, etc.) he will either live by his value system or he won’t just like all the other kids (;)). Those things will be out there all his life if he lives his life here, and he will choose how to deal with them. </p>

<p>As for waking up early, it’s probably the norm that one roommate gets up earlier than the other depending on class times. Obviously, consideration and discretion are basic manners issues rather than Islamic ones, and you’ve raised S to be respectful of both, so not a problem.</p>

<p>Many schools allow freshmen to complete a “matching” form to help them be matched up with a roommate with compatible values, interests, etc. </p>

<p>With an ACT of 35, he should be able to get merit scholarships at lots of places, so you want to check out the merit scholarship threads.</p>

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<p>Has he been on tours yet at the colleges he applied to? He might want to do that if he has not. I was also thinking what sylvan said, that Michigan will surely have some students who are Islamic and likely would be able to accomodate your requirements. That said, there are almost no colleges in the US that don’t have students doing the things you talked about (drinking, drugs, sex) except conservative religous schools (Christian or Mormon). So he is going to be around those things, probably especially his first year when he lives in a freshman dorm. But if he seeks out some like-minded friends on campus (which I think would be easy to do at a larger school), then he could probably making living arrangements after that with them. Michigan is also a very strong school academically (okay, I am biased, I did my undergraduate studies there) :slight_smile: But it is the strongest on his list, and you are lucky to live in a state with such a strong flagship university.</p>

<p>At a smaller school he might have a harder time finding as many like-minded Islamic students. If he is okay with that, you could ask at some of the liberal arts colleges about dietary options, etc. Macalester in St. Paul, Minnesota, might be one private school he could consider; they have a lot of international students and are likely to be accommodating. They offer some merit aid, and it is possible he would also be eligible for financial aid.</p>

<p>If you have not yet tried the cost calculators at different colleges, you should do that. And start looking into the FAFSA form for financial aid.</p>

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<p>Just want to mention, if he ends up in graduate school in the sciences (like cell biology for instance), it will be almost free. Most programs in that field will give all students full tuition plus a monthly stipend for living expenses. This is true of a lot of PhD programs in the sciences. The same is not true of medical school if he wants the MD. The costs for the MD will be higher.</p>

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<p>I think that you might find the following article interesting. It’s about Muslim students enrolling in Catholic colleges: <a href=“Muslims Enroll at Catholic Colleges in Growing Numbers - The New York Times”>Muslims Enroll at Catholic Colleges in Growing Numbers - The New York Times;

<p>I completely understand your concerns about behavior in college. There are lots of Christian, as well as Muslim, families who share those concerns for their children. Our daughter did not want to be around drinking and drugs, nor did she want a roommate who would have a boyfriend in the room overnight. Here are some suggestions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Find a like-minded roommate. Most colleges have ways to match roommates, and some colleges have Facebook roommate-finding pages. There are also websites for roommate matching.</p></li>
<li><p>Consider a substance-free dorm or floor, which are usually listed under Living/Learning Communities.</p></li>
<li><p>Consider an all-male dorm with restricted visitation hours. My daughter’s Muslim friend lives in an all-female dorm with restricted hours. There are Muslim and Christian students there, and they tend to have fewer problems with drinking. I don’t know if all-male dorms are like that as well, but it would be worth it to investigate.</p></li>
<li><p>Honors housing, if available, also tends to draw students who are more serious-minded than the general population.</p></li>
<li><p>Large universities, like Michigan, have so many options for students. They are more likely to have Muslim Student Association (MSA) groups. Your son should contact these groups at colleges that he is considering. They might even be able to give him helpful suggestions about how to adjust to a college environment.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Best wishes to your family as you go through this process!</p>

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<p>Just wondering, through your temple or other parts of the Muslim community, are there families with values similar to yours and older kids in college? You could talk to them. They may have great advice given they know you and your child.</p>

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<p>I agree, a substance free dorm at a Catholic college is a good idea. You will get drug/alcohol free living with visitor restrictions and while I don’t normally suggest this for freshman, possibly a single room. I would give serious consideration to Notre Dame for him. I just don’t know what they would have to offer for food so you would need to check into that. They do have a large vegetarian offering and it seemed like they were willing to work with kids with special dietary needs. He would need to take a religion class, however, most often they are not “Catholic Faith” classes, very often they have comparative religion classes and his background would be a huge bonus in a class like that. You can’t beat the networking opportunities at Notre Dame either. Problem is, it’s still a lottery school with a low admit rate but they do meet 100% of demonstrated need so that can save you thousands of dollars over the years.</p>

<p>Other Catholic schools, especially Jesuit institutions would be something to consider.</p>

<p>If you don’t want to go the Catholic school route, I would consider the University of MN. There is a very large Muslim population in the Minneapolis area and if nothing else he would have pretty easy access to halal markets, etc. I am GUESSING that the campus would have options for Muslim students as well but you would need to check for sure. Outside of the religious needs, the research opportunities are plentiful and it is a very, very strong school for his interest areas. Merit aid would also be pretty generous for him most likely.</p>

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<p>MSU has a merit scholarship and some Halal meals available. There is also Kosher dining in one or two halls if he can eat that- although I know there are some differences, the Kosher parve/dairy foods would not contain meat. Case Western may also offer him merit aid.
I expect there is a Muslim student association at the schools you are considering that you could contact to ask questions. A Muslim Student Association could be something you could consider as a priority on his college search list, as you would want him to have a religious community wherever he is.
In the US, there is a focus on “prestige” of the college, but there are also many excellent students who must consider the cost as well. It’s possible some people may make a comment, but for many families, that does not justify going into debt.
Every college has some partying and craziness as kids are away from parents for the first time. I think this is another reason to find a school with a Muslim Student Association so he can have peers who share his beliefs and values. Finding a room mate with similar values will be important. That said, it’s also important for him not to isolate himself. We are Jewish, so we understand the importance of finding a community at college, but my kids enjoy having friends from all religions and backgrounds. We have found that a diverse environment is usually tolerant. He may not want to be close friends with students who party a lot, but learning to live among different people is part of the experience. </p>

<p>I agree with choosing a male only dorm if possible, and if not, perhaps an all male suite ( with like minded room mates)- or an honors dorm, substance-free. Still it’s hard to avoid all partying in the dorms.</p>

<p>There is a list of schools on CC that offer automatic merit aid for students with good scores as well. Consider Kettering and Drexel- strong in sciences and possible (but not automatic, I think) merit aid.</p>

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<p>Pennylane2011–I strongly disagree that the “US” is focused on prestige, parts of the US are focused on prestige, mainly east coast/New England. The rest of the country is more focused on fit and affordability.</p>

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<p>Your son should get merit aid at Case. I believe the max amount last year was 32K per year. The cost of attendance is 56K.</p>

<p>Case has a Halal/Kosher meal plan. I assume it costs more and I believe it is only available at the dining hall on the north side of campus.</p>

<p>In the orientation schedule for this past year Case included information on campus locations available for Muslims to pray. I assume that some or all of the locations are available year round, but I do not know that for sure.</p>

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<p>That is good to know Steve. We have chosen fit and affordability for our kids, and some of their friends/relatives have made comments about it. The OP wondered about this, but it is not prevalent everywhere as you say. This bothered my kids at first but they were fine with their choices. They realized that very intelligent students are everywhere, and that there are many excellent schools. </p>

<p>I mentioned this to OP, because there is the possibility that someone will make a comment, but that the OP will also find many students who have made their college decisions based on fit/affordability as you say. I also mentioned this because if their relatives are in a culture that focuses on this, they may get questioned, and they can answer that in the US, people make the college decision that suits them best- and there are many choices. </p>

<p>There are also school rivalries- Michigan State/U Michigan, and many others, so kids can expect to hear about it. Students are hopefully prepared to feel confident in their school choice when they hear things like this.
I agree that the majority of students attend the schools that fit them best and meet their educational career goals well there.</p>

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<p>My sister works at a Catholic university and let me tell you–there is definitely booze, drugs, and sex on campus! I think that is true of every college, although some to a greater degree than others. So even if your son doesn’t go to a “party school”, he should be aware he will come across that kind of thing. But it’s not like HE has to party just because other students are. Look around for campuses with groups and activities not centered around the party scene.</p>

<p>I went to my state’s large, flagship university and there were lots of Muslim (I assume) women attending who wore head coverings. And because it was so large, you could hunt around until you found the people you “clicked” with, there was bound to be somebody. This may vary from state to state, but it is worth checking out, IMO, especially since that may be a fairly affordable option.</p>

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<p>Naturally-no one said that there were not issues on Catholic campuses, however, they typically do not have coed dorms and have pretty strict visiting hours for the opposite sex and living on a substance free floor or dorm will give some insulation from the parties, etc. for this student. At non-religious schools you find more co-ed dorms, even co-ed floors, heck even some co-ed ROOMS and not that there is anything wrong with those for most kids, for this particular student, it is just one added piece to the search to find a school that will work best with his religious beliefs.</p>

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<p>Many schools will accomodate muslims. Georgetown (a Jesuit Catholic university) has an Imam as part of the campus ministries. Unfortunately even colleges that are (sorta) trying to be accomodating don’t always get it: [Some</a> Muslim Students Dissatisfied with Halal Dining Options | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/10/24/Halal-Food/]Some”>Some Muslim Students Dissatisfied with Halal Dining Options | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

<p>You should run the calculators - it’s possible that a place like Harvard with unusually generous need based aid will still be affordable, but it’s more likely that you will want to look at state universities (especially ones with good honors programs) or places with good merit aid.</p>

<p>I agree completely that religious schools except the really fundamental ones where your son would be uncomfortable of other reasons still will have plenty of drinking, sex and drugs. When we were at Georgetown the campus newspaper had some articles about drinking that made me raise my eyebrows a bit - and I am no prude nor am I anti-drinking. But most schools also have large populations of students who don’t indulge or indulge in moderation. My son at Tufts has lots of international student friends from the Middle East and South Asia many of whom, like him, don’t drink.</p>

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<p>One website worth reading through is [EducationUSA</a> | Study Abroad, Student Visa, University Fairs, College Applications and Study in the U.S. / America](<a href=“http://www.educationusa.state.gov%5DEducationUSA”>http://www.educationusa.state.gov) It is designed for international students who are considering coming to the US to study, so it will offer useful background information for you and your husband as parents who were not educated in the US. </p>

<p>You also should spend some time in the Financial Aid Forum. There are a number of threads there on guaranteed merit-based aid, as well as lots of useful information about need-based aid. Since your husband is helping to support family members outside the country, need-based aid calculations may not result in affordable packages. Send a PM to kelsmom. She used to work in the financial aid office of one of the Michigan public universities, and will have good advice for you on the best ways to present your family’s financial situation.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

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<p>When looking at colleges, most have web pages where they discuss the various religious groups on campus- you can see how strong their accommodations are for Muslims. One example, maybe you are already aware: [MSA</a> Home | University of Michigan Muslim Students’ Association](<a href=“http://www.muslims.studentorgs.umich.edu/]MSA”>http://www.muslims.studentorgs.umich.edu/) or [Home</a> | CWRU Muslim Student Association](<a href=“http://filer.case.edu/org/msa/]Home”>http://filer.case.edu/org/msa/) Many schools also have prayer rooms on campus.</p>

<p>I think one concern about Catholic schools (any school with a dominant religious group) - I don’t know how best to phrase this- is finding a large enough group of like-minded friends. It’s one thing to be “accommodated,” another to have many others who share your beliefs and lifestyle. I do not mean to step on toes. </p>

<p>When the time comes to deal with housing, ime, you can speak with the housing staff. Many schools “auto” roommate match based on general lifestyle prefs, based on a questionnaire. But you can ask for a more custom matching- not necessarily another Muslim student, but someone whose background and interests also require some sensitivity in that match process.</p>

<p>When you apply for financial aid, the usual process accounts for the number of people in your immediate family. In your case, there may be some understanding that your family income is also shared with older relatives. For this, you would benefit from speaking with the financial aid folks; they may be able to review your “need” in that context and would explain the steps. </p>

<p>I also think it is critical to see the schools, including dining facilities- my kids both have an extraordinary range of food choices. This summer, I worked on a project at another school (another LAC, under 2000) and was stunned at how limited choices were for Muslims, observant Jews, vegetarians and anyone with special dietary needs.
Best of luck.</p>

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<p>Thank you for all the wonderful and informative answers. I cannot tell you how helpful this site has been so far for me.</p>

<p>“When it comes to the other things (alcohol, sex, etc.) he will either live by his value system or he won’t just like all the other kids. Those things will be out there all his life if he lives his life here, and he will choose how to deal with them.”</p>

<p>My son will be the former as he is tolerant of others. He lives by the code of not butting into other people’s personal lives or business. </p>

<p>“As for waking up early, it’s probably the norm that one roommate gets up earlier than the other depending on class times. Obviously, consideration and discretion are basic manners issues rather than Islamic ones, and you’ve raised S to be respectful of both, so not a problem.”</p>

<p>Yes, I am worried if this might disturb the roommate. Also, I suppose praying in the room would not be an option then.</p>

<p>“Many schools allow freshmen to complete a “matching” form to help them be matched up with a roommate with compatible values, interests, etc.”</p>

<p>Thank you for telling me this. Thank you, as well, LBowie.</p>

<p>“Has he been on tours yet at the colleges he applied to? He might want to do that if he has not.”</p>

<p>We have visited the three colleges and he found both pros and cons in going to each school. He liked them all very much and would attend at any of them.</p>

<p>Marsian, thank you for the interesting article, but my son wouldn’t feel comfortable in a religious university. He would rather be in a secular university. Thank you for your ideas and I hope all the best for your daughter in her studies and in maintaining her moral code. :)</p>

<p>“Just wondering, through your temple or other parts of the Muslim community, are there families with values similar to yours and older kids in college? You could talk to them. They may have great advice given they know you and your child.”</p>

<p>There isn’t really any Muslims here we can speak to. There is a small community of Muslims but they’re divided based on ethnicity and use their own languages in their masjids/mosques (Urdu, Hindi, Swahili). Also, we do not go to a mosque because we are Shia and the two mosques are Sunni ones. The few Shia families here at times host events but they are from Pakistan/India and speak in their native tongue. We are somewhat separated from the community as a result.</p>

<p>“I agree, a substance free dorm at a Catholic college is a good idea. You will get drug/alcohol free living with visitor restrictions and while I don’t normally suggest this for freshman, possibly a single room. I would give serious consideration to Notre Dame for him.”</p>

<p>Like I said, he might feel uncomfortable at a Catholic university (no offense to anyone). I have heard excellent things from Notre Dame, however, from one of my husband’s group partners who graduated from there.</p>

<p>“There is also Kosher dining in one or two halls if he can eat that- although I know there are some differences, the Kosher parve/dairy foods would not contain meat.”
Kosher meat is not allowed in our religion. Many Muslims do eat it and some scholars within Sunni Islam allow it, but in Shia Islam it is not allowed. At MSU, however, they did have some days were halal meat were served.</p>

<p>“That said, it’s also important for him not to isolate himself. We are Jewish, so we understand the importance of finding a community at college, but my kids enjoy having friends from all religions and backgrounds. We have found that a diverse environment is usually tolerant. He may not want to be close friends with students who party a lot, but learning to live among different people is part of the experience.”
Don’t worry. We are a tolerant family as well and respect others. We have been living in the US for 16 years after all! ;)</p>

<p>"Your son should get merit aid at Case. I believe the max amount last year was 32K per year. The cost of attendance is 56K.</p>

<p>Case has a Halal/Kosher meal plan. I assume it costs more and I believe it is only available at the dining hall on the north side of campus.</p>

<p>In the orientation schedule for this past year Case included information on campus locations available for Muslims to pray. I assume that some or all of the locations are available year round, but I do not know that for sure."</p>

<p>Thank you for that information. At Case they did tell us about a halal meal plan. Is the halal/kosher meal plan the same (i.e. the same meat) or is one halal meat and the other kosher? Case also gave us that information about on-campus praying sites.</p>

<p>“I also mentioned this because if their relatives are in a culture that focuses on this, they may get questioned, and they can answer that in the US, people make the college decision that suits them best- and there are many choices.”
In Iraq, many students were so focused on going to the “best” college and getting top scores on exams. Also, we don’t really have relatives after Saddam’s attacks on us after the 91 revolt. So there is no problem that way from our family.</p>

<p>“Look around for campuses with groups and activities not centered around the party scene.”
Is it hard finding friends who are not into that party scene? People who instead of partying would like to, let’s say, play video games, have thought-provoking discussions, go hunting, sports, talk about cars, etc.?</p>

<p>“It is designed for international students who are considering coming to the US to study, so it will offer useful background information for you and your husband as parents who were not educated in the US.”
We are naturalized US citizens and all my other children are born here save my son who was born in Europe. Thank you though for recommending us to send a message to kelsmom.
Another thing about MSAs, are they usually cultural or political as well? Because my son would not like that. He is strongly anti-cultural and believes mankind as more of one entity and thinks culture divides it. Though he does read the news and knows about political situations in the US and the world, he is not a fan of meaningless discussions on politics unless its about the structure, history, and forms of government.</p>

<p>“I think one concern about Catholic schools (any school with a dominant religious group) - I don’t know how best to phrase this- is finding a large enough group of like-minded friends. It’s one thing to be “accommodated,” another to have many others who share your beliefs and lifestyle. I do not mean to step on toes.”
I find your point to be very true. Though my son and our family are religious, it is not like we are intolerant of others and have blocked others’ viewpoints. My son often reads books, for example, of philosophers from the Greeks and reads books like Epic of Gilgamesh or Beowulf and doesn’t have any problem with it. In his English class this year, he had to read an excerpt of the Bible and doesn’t have any problem doing so.</p>

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<p>“Because my son would not like that. He is strongly anti-cultural and believes mankind as more of one entity and thinks culture divides it.”</p>

<p>Your son sounds amazing, smart, and it’s great that he looks at unity instead of divisions. I think it is wise to look into any student organization for activities. As to culture- it’s nice to have a group of friends who share food and customs, and sometimes the groups are open to any student wishing to learn about other people. However, some campuses are politically active and some organizations participate in taking sides in politics and current events. I think it is possible- and desirable- for students to put aside political/cultural differences and be friends. Your son sounds like a wonderful student to have on campus.</p>

<p>Since many of these schools are close to you, is it possible for him to spend some time on campus with other students, attend some activities at the Muslim Student Union and other areas he is interested in- sitting in on classes and see where he feels comfortable? See if his peers would be more politically active or not. Also check into the meal plan and where the meat is purchased from. I know some students choose vegetarian on campuses, but some food may not be prepared according to strict standards. Vegan options have no animal products at all. After freshman year, he may get an apartment, but check for groceries nearby where he can get his food.</p>

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<p>Steve, my kids applied to six catholic colleges between them. ALL had coed dorms, and all had very liberal visiting hours. DD attending a Jesuit university (yes I know the Jesuits tend to be more liberal). EVERY dorm was coed.</p>

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<p>I don’t think you should assume your son will need merit aid. Your special circumstances may be considered by some colleges when they decide financial aid. You may find that some of the “need only” colleges offer your son better financial aid packages than the college that offer merit money. </p>

<p>It’s at least worth exploring.</p>