Questions from Newbie - Just starting out

Parents Forum
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<p>Hey all. I'm just starting out here. I posted some of these questions on the Parent's Cafe forum and got great responses but someone suggested I come here as well.</p>

<p>My daughter is a sophomore. Large public school in NE. Good student. All honors classes. 4.0 GPE (unweighted). Strongest subject is math, currently precalc honors.</p>

<p>Questions:</p>

<p>She has no clue what she wants to study. What are some of the best books to look at?</p>

<p>Should we begin to look at schools this summer? (I think yes, just to motivate her!)</p>

<p>What's the deal with the SAT 2? Does she need to take one in June (Math I presume?) Since we don't know what schools she's applying to, does it just make sense to be safe and do it? If yes, should she start intense prep? Where, how? No help from our Guidance Dept at the HS on any of this!!</p>

<p>If she craters on SAT 2, do we have to submit score to colleges she applies to? (She's not the best test-taker)</p>

<p>THANKS!!!! (Lots more questions to come!!)</p>

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<p>As a sophmore, I would not push the visits if she is not interested. She might not be developmentally ready for this process.</p>

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<p>Take a look at the College Board and ACT Web sites for some guidance related to standardized testing. Also, look at Princeton Review site for more info on test preparation and detailed info on schools: profiles of academics, student body, etc.</p>

<p>You can also look on universities' Web sites to get an idea of what tests they require. Generally they require SAT I or ACT, and two or three SAT IIs (English, Math 2, and one other).</p>

<p>When you submit scores, you do submit all of them--but the schools only take the best scores into account. Sometimes they'll pick and choose among different test dates (but schools have different policies on this and may look at the highest overall scores from 1 testing date).</p>

<p>Have her try the ACT. It's a better test, in my opinion, and nearly every university accepts it in lieu of SAT I (and sometimes SAT IIs). Just like the PSAT that students take in high school, there's a practice version of the ACT offered in high school (I can't remember the name of it right now).</p>

<p>Regarding visiting ... We started looking at colleges early on, and it definitely motivated our daughter. If you have some sense of the schools she might qualify her, take her to those. In other words, if she's not Harvard material, don't visit Harvard. That's just my opinion. It's like trying on a wedding dress you really can't afford, and then being disappointed by the one you eventually buy.</p>

<p>One way to visit without seeming pushy is to include one in a trip you're already planning. </p>

<p>Personally, I think it helps to think about this early. My daughter's friends who didn't were left struggling during senior year, wondering where to apply. </p>

<p>And don't worry too much about what she should major in. Many schools allow students to start as "undeclared." </p>

<p>And remember one thing: You will get through this process. My daughter is attending NYU as a freshman this fall, so I know it CAN be done! :-)</p>

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<p>I am not adverse to looking at schools early. It does not have to be a whole coordinated sweeping the country trip but you can look at a few different types of schools close to home (even as a daytrip). It is important for your D to know what she does not want as much as she knows what she does want. </p>

<p>There may be little things that she may know that she wants from her college experience. I know for my D, the ability to study abroad was very important to her, so she did not apply to any school that did not have a study abroad program.</p>

<p>I think that the fisk college guide is pretty close to truth in advertising when they do write ups about schools so it is a good book to have. In august, definitely pay the $15 and purchase the on line verison of the U.S. news college guide (not so much for the rankings) but you can do a number of sorts by admissions rate, SAT score range, and you can side by side compare schools.</p>

<p>I would definitely suggest looking at <a href="http://www.finaid.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.finaid.org&lt;/a> and the college board's website and using their FA calculators (do both the federal and institutional methodologies) so you can have an idea based on your current Financial picture about how much you will have to pay for your EFC (expected family contribution).</p>

<p>Have the money talk early. If money is going to be an issue and you have a certain$ amount that you are willing to pay/borrow let your kid know because they get emotionally invested in a school. If money is going to be an issue, but your foot down and say no to ED as you will want to compare FA packages. If you find that need based aid is going to financially knock you out of the box as far as paying (40,000+ is a lot of $$) then balance your list with schools that offer merit money.</p>

<p>At this time, you can look at the different types of environments, large, medium and small schools. Schools in urban, suburban or rural settings. Definitely don't rule out the women's colleges.</p>

<p>Because you live in the NE, don't be adverse to having D cast a wide net and going further out where she may get a tip for geographic diversity.</p>

<p>Between winter/spring break junior year and junior summer, hopefully her list will start to solidify as I agree with sloparent, senior year is can be too late to start the search and things get hetic as far as coordinating applications, school work, ECs to have to deal with visits. She could use this time if there are overnights that she may want to attend.</p>

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<p>If your D does not know what she wants to study, try to get a sense of broad categories: sciences or humanities or social sciences, would she want to see a close connection between college work and possible career or is she a more liberal arts, knowledge-for-its-own-sake type? Would she want to participate enthusiastically in any particular sport? Would she want easy access to a large city? Would she like an intimate campus atmosphere where everyone knows each other or a larger population with lots of diversity? Will you be dependent on significant financial aid? How far from home would she want to go? If you are in New England, there are plenty of nearby colleges to vist. This summer perhaps consider one large university and one smaller liberal arts campus. Hang out at a snack bar or cafeteria and ask students to talk about what they like or don't like about the school. This together with SAT results will help you to start making a reasonable list. Sybbie is right--give some consideration to women's colleges and excellent schools in the Midwest to balance highly competitive top New England schools.</p>

<p>Yale Insider's Guide is good to start with because it gives you strong sense of campus atmosphere from the students' point of view. D could read descriptions and think about what attracts or repels her</p>

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<p>As someone who is now going through this process a second time (#2 son is a junior in high school now) I definitely am applying some lessons learned when #1 son was going through the process three years ago. My older son was interested in going to college but not that interested in touring schools, reading college guides etc before fall of his senior year. In retrospect, that was too late because he ended up applying to a group of schools without having visited more than 1 or 2 of them. We then ended up traveling during his winter and spring school vacations of his senior year to actually see the schools that had accepted him. Only then did he form an idea of what kind of school he wanted to go to. Definitely not a good approach. </p>

<p>My second son is more academically focused but also had no real fire under him to tour schools. However, we took him to see a couple last summer (before the start of his junior year) because it was helpful for him to tour campuses and sit in on information sessions and listen to the admissions counselors discuss their programs, and then to tell the students what they would be looking for when they read their applications. I think it motivates a rising Junior to hear that it will serve them well to keep up a rigorous course schedule with Honors and AP courses, and to know the sorts of standardized testing that will be needed and the like. However, it was just as important for them to hear that colleges are looking for balance and want to see students involved in extracurricular activities or one or two outside interests they have a passion in. My son has since toured several other schools and is now able to form definite ideas on what size school he wants, what kind of campus, what sorts of academic programs he wants a school to have etc. Some of his friends still have not seen any schools and will have to scramble to figure this stuff out this summer or even next fall when they will already be under time pressure to fill applications out and write essays while getting their school work done and participating in their chosen activities. </p>

<p>So for now, I guess I would tell you to buy a couple college guides (The Fiske Guide and Princeton Review books were always helpful to us) and have your daughter pick a school or two to see this summer to get the process going. College tours are interesting but they can be exhausting, so you have to do them in spurts during summer and school vacations anyway. Good luck!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
She has no clue what she wants to study. What are some of the best books to look at?

[/quote]
Your child doesn't need to know what he/she wants to study at this stage. That's what college is for! :)</p>

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<p>Regarding SAT IIs - if she is good at math, she should take MathII (either this year or next year). It has a much better curve, and some schools ask for it (like Stanford). The only SAT IIs that should be taken after freshmen or sophomore year are the sciences that she studied that year (bio, chem), unless she is planning to take APs in the same subject.</p>

<p>If she is planning to take and submit any SAT scores (I or II), the colleges will see ALL the scores she ever got on SAT tests. For ACTs you can pick the scores to be sent to colleges.</p>

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<p>I agree that the Yale Insider's Guide has some helpful information, but it also has a number of factual errors. For example, in the 2006 edition, it says in the body of the article that Williams is a "close-knit community of about 1,200 undergrads." In fact, Williams has around 2000 students. That's a big difference, especially for a geographically isolated school. Another example from the 2006 edition: in the section about UNC-Chapel Hill, it states that one can apply for the Honors Program around the time of freshman orientation. In fact, one has to be invited to be in the Honors Program as a first semester freshman, and that invitation comes sometime in late winter or the spring, depending on whether a student applied EA or RD. </p>

<p>Those happened to be two schools that I knew a lot about, so it really made me wonder what errors were in the articles about schools I wasn't so familiar with. The book may be helpful for information about the general atmosphere, although, of course, beware of gross over-generalizations. For facts, the colleges' websites are your best source.</p>

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<p>Read and let your child read Loren Pope "Colleges that change life". It is book about schools that are inclusive and have something that stands them out of crowd.
Visit nearest schools just to determine size, LAC vs. University, urban vs. rural, residential vs. commuter, etc.</p>

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<p>MomNew - It appears that your daughter is doing all a HS sophomore can do at this point; good grades, challenging courses, etc. So perhaps it would be more fruitful to take an "adult inventory." Have you prepared in your mind the basic discussions you'll have with your daughter -- you know, what kinds of schools your family favors, how much the family can afford, how far away you're willing to let her go to attend college? Are you thoroughly well-read on the process? Do you have a list of books and web sites you could recommend to your daughter? Does she have a list of books and web sites for you? (The likely answer is "No.") How is the guidance department at the HS? Does the guidance department automatically send informational materials to parents as well as students? Which colleges have the best students at her HS been attending the past few years? Do you think these schools are appropriate for your daughter? (The answer was an emphatic "No!" for my daughters.) Does your HS permit students to miss class days to visit colleges? (Another "No.") How much of the college search do you think your D wants to do for herself? How assertive are you willing to be in those areas where she's somewhat reluctant? You mentioned that your D is not the best test taker. What do you know about test preparation courses? What SAT/ACT score do you think your daughter should be aiming for? The questions are endless obviously. </p>

<p>Much of the college application work should be done by the student. But it was a great comfort to my daughters knowing that there was a safety net in place to assure that things went smoothly. That worked very well, but it required that the parents knew a LOT about where the process could get sidetracked. (Sorry about writing in the third person there.)</p>

<p>Wishing you and your D the very best on this new adventure!</p>

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<p>To answer your question about books on areas to study, you may want to look at Collegeboard's Book of Majors. It's in most libraries, and includes descriptions of various majors, the colleges and universities that offer them, and job possiblities for students in those fields.</p>

<p>Another college book series I haven't seen anyone mention to you yet is the College ******* series. It's another insiders guide type of thing, but in even more detail, since there's a book for each of the popular schools.</p>

<p>Here's the deal on the SAT 2s. Yes, if your daughter is planning to apply to selective schools, she may very well be required to take these. Requirements for different schools and different programs within schools vary and you should check the website of the likely types of schools you'll be targeting. It's becoming more common now for some students to take only the ACT with writing exam. Some schools will not require any additional SAT 2s if you've taken that test, since it already covers the more recent math as well as science. However there are advantages to taking the SAT I and IIs. As far as the new SAT I with writing exam, your score is considered to be the best composite score of any of your sittings for the test. In other words, if your best critical writing score was in January, your best math in March and your best writing in June, those three scores, taken from three exams on three different dates, will be combined to make up your best one "composite" score. Not so with the ACT. But there's a catch. With the SATs, every time you send a score into a school, they will see ALL previous SAT and SAT 2 scores. With the ACTs, you have the luxury of score choice, not sending in a score you're not satified with. But keep in mind, that most colleges will only count your best SAT 2 scores. So if they require the SAT I and two additional SAT 2s, and you've taken and, perhaps retaken some SAT 2s, they'll only count the highest ones.</p>

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<p>Her ideas about how well a college fits her will change drastically. If she is only a sophomore, don't really look into colleges yet. Get her to take SAT 2s and SATs and have good ECs and grades. Other than that don't worry about it too much.
just my $.02</p>

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<p>p..r..o..w..l..e..r... Don't know why that got edited!</p>

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<p>the person who is currently a sophmore will be a rising junior in a matter of weeks. While students do not have to have a "short list" of schools they are interested in I do beieve that they should start thinking about the process even if it is from a standpoint of gathering information. She does not have to be committed to a particular major (as many students do change majors and change up unitl the last moment).</p>

<p>One of the things you can so now is request a copy of the school profile for your High school, so you will have an idea as to where she stands in comparison to the "norm" at her school, the track record her school has regarding sending students to college. If your high school puts out a newsletter, I would recommend that you read the newsletter as the may or june edition will most likely state where the class of 2006 will be attending in the fall. Talk to parents of seniors at your high school so that you can get a take on how college counseling is done at your school so that you know to what extent how much outside research you will have to do on your own.</p>

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<p>I know that she will soon be a junior; but I dont think you should really start looking sophomore year. I started looking at the beginning of junior year, and I think that this is a much better time (I realize now that I did not make this clear in my earlier post, sorry). Actually, my interests have changed some since then as well. Give her some time to think about what she wants/needs. End of sophomore year would have been far too early for me, and I have known for a long time basically what things I am interested in persuing. It is more important for her to do things in highschool that she really really likes, and then when it comes time to find colleges she will know exactly what to look for.</p>

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<p>D was child #2 to go through the process. The best thing we did with her was stay within four hours of home in our own state and visit an LAC, a mid-sized, and a large uni during her sophomore spring break. No pressure at all, just a look at what campuses of those sizes look and feel like. We didn't expect any revelations at all and were quite surprised and taken aback by her immediate attachment to the LAC environment. So now she knew the genre of schools. We spend junior year breaks and the summer after junior year visiting similar schools and a few just a bit bigger to nail down the particulars (majors, location, etc.). Sophomore year should be a no-stress time to look at places for "fun".</p>