Questions, questions, questions...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>Junior and prospective applicant here. Williams is increasingly becoming my top choice school, and right now I'm debating between Dartmouth and Williams for an early decision. That said, I'm not asking for direct comparisons between the two - I can do that myself :). </p>

<p>1) Does not being athletic limit social options? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a couch potato (at least not all the time) and I play sports competitively in high school, but I'm not the type to be excessively or obsessively into sports. As in, there's no way I'd make a varsity sport at Williams. I know half the campus doesn't do varsity sports... but some may call me a pessimist. Half the campus is very, very athletic - and I'm definitely not. </p>

<p>2) Guess this is more of a general question about LACs, but does the social life at Williams feel like a continuation of high school? Given the small number of people and isolation, I imagine you'd get to know a lot of faces on campus, but does that result in distinct cliques, gossip, drama, etc? I get these are mature, bright kids we're talking about, but humans, when put in certain social confines, act in certain ways.</p>

<p>3) The majors/minors I would be considering if I were at Williams are: Political Economy, Political Science, Philosophy, Economics, Anthropology and Math/Stat. How strong are each of these majors? By the look of things, I'm likely going to double major in Economics/Political Economy and Philosophy, with a minor in Anthropology or Math. Besides law and business school, what career prospects would this open up?</p>

<p>4) How academically rigorous is Williams? How many hours a week do you work? What's the average GPA? Are people actually intellectually engaged on campus? A lot of elite schools are full of students who worked hard in high school, got good grades and learned from the process to only care about grades and feign intellectual interest. I'm not like that. I want to know people who are willing to engage in discussion about ideas and academics, but I also want to know those same kids know how to have fun. Essentially, is there balance in student's lives? I know two current freshman at Williams, and both of them seem to strike an excellent balance... so I guess this isn't a huge worry for me. </p>

<p>5) How many classes are offered with tutorials? I looked it up and found that less than, say, ten classes were offered with the Oxford-styled tutorials. If that's the case, Williams' advertising about that seems sort of gimmicky. It's a great thing to have, but I don't want to take classes just so I can have the tutorial experience, because based on the classes I saw, I personally wouldn't even have considered enrolling in any of them had I not known they were tutorial-based. </p>

<p>Sorry for all the questions, but my quest for additional information on Williams has fallen short. Hopefully current students, alums and parents are willing to chip in!</p>

<p>Cheers :D</p>

2

<p>Nearly 500 views and no response? Come on! That’s almost the size of a class at Williams.</p>

3

<p>Where are all the regulars? Spring break maybe? I’m a parent of a graduate but I’ll give you my impression.</p>

<p>1) I don’t think the varsity sport percentage is quite 50%. At any rate there are plenty of non-athletes so don’t worry. As a very general statement I’d say that most Williams kids get involved in some kind of physical activity, even if it’s dancing or broomball. It also helps to like to do something outdoors during the winter (which is long).</p>

<p>2) I wasn’t there but this was never a complaint that I heard. Again, a general statement but college kids are not like high school kids and whether your college has 2,000 or 20,000 students you end up with the same number of friends.</p>

<p>3) Aside from anthropology which appears to be combined with sociology, these are all strong departments at Williams. Williams doesn’t have minors, but double or even triple majors are doable. Sampling a wide range of disciplines is enouraged. Take a look at the academic departmental websites to see what graduates have done post-Williams. Graduate and professional schools will be well represented.</p>

<p>4) Williams is very intense academically and there is no question that students are intellectually engaged. If your goal is to get all A’s you will be challenged. If you’re okay with As and Bs you will have a balanced life. </p>

<p>For my son, the first year was shockingly difficult, but after he understood the expectations better, the pressure loosened up – and his grades actually improved. Basically Williams wants you to participate whatever it is that interests you, inside and outside of the classroom.</p>

<p>5) In my son’s department – art/art history – there was generally one tutorial offered per semester. His opinion of tutorials was mixed. The success and satisfaction rate really depended on the professor and the partner. He preferred the small (6 to 10 students) discussion based format. </p>

<p>My observation is that Williams classes (not just tutorials) can be kind of quirky and narrow in subject matter, at least it seems so in their titles. But once the class gets rolling the scope widens to cover a range of connected material.</p>

4

<p>I’m a student here now.</p>

<p>1) In a word, no. A bit less than 50% do either a club or varsity sport. That means that over 50% do no sports. So by no means have I heard of anyone being excluded for not being “athletic enough.”</p>

<p>2) The answer to this depends on how high school was. My experience was where I had a few really good friends and some other OK friends, with a light peppering of drama. I find that I have tons of great friends here, and most of the ‘drama’ so far this year was surrounding which teams people were rooting for in the super bowl. And even that was 3/4 joke.</p>

<p>3) Yeah, Williams has concentrations instead of majors; you can check the list out here: [Departments</a> & Programs | Williams College](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/depts-programs/]Departments”>Areas of Study – Academics)
In general, Williams doesn’t have a bad department, just some are less stellar than others. Math is fantastic. PoliSci is really good. I’ve heard great things about Philosophy, but I haven’t taken a course in that department, so I’ll withhold my personal judgement on that. </p>

<p>4) Classes will kick almost anyone’s butt. It depends on the class, but it’s generally 2-3 hours of work per hour of class. And people are definitely engaged both inside and outside the class (I had a discussion until 3 AM in my entry over Winter Study about international relations in pre-WW1 Europe). People here seem to be extremely well balanced. </p>

<p>5) 50-60 classes per year (they’re expanding it again, though). Each department must offer at least one per year, to open it up for people of differing interests.</p>

<p>Do you plan on visiting campus? A tour or info session run by admissions should give you a great feel for the campus environment and academic offerings.</p>

5

<p>Williams has what is almost universally considered the best math department of any undergraduate program in the country. Keep in mind that your professors will know your name by the second day of class; I doubt your grad student teacger at a university would know it by the last day.</p>

6

<p>“Does not being athletic limit social options?”</p>

<p>You do not have to be athletic to have an active and healthy social life. Clear skin helps somewhat, and try to keep trim. Refrain from talking about yourself all of the time; look her in the eye and really listen to what she is saying. Personal hygiene is a must. Also, (and I hope I am not revealing any secrets) most girls like to cuddle.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

7

<p>Wow! Thanks for the great response :)</p>

<p>momrath - What specifically did he find shockingly difficult? Was it the course load itself, or managing to have a balanced life? </p>

<p>Ephinephrine - My concern about Williams life isn’t about the number of friends per se. Rather, my disgruntlement with high school is that people settle in a group of friends (call it cliques if you must) and they almost refuse to socialize out of it. If you aren’t willing to go out of your way to impress certain people early on, they just don’t make the effort to befriend you. I find myself drifting between groups of friends a lot, just because I like talking to a lot of different people, and as a result, I haven’t established extremely close friendships with more than one or two people. Does the same sort of problem exist at Williams? Basically, are people more open and friendly?</p>

<p>glido - haha… thanks. Not <em>exactly</em> what I was asking about, but a response is appreciated nonetheless!</p>

8

<p>Ephinephrine is a lot more tied in to the current campus than I am and, in my view pretty much nailed it. I’ll add a few things:</p>

<p>(1) No. I was neither a varsity nor club athlete, nor even a high school varsity athlete, and athletic attributes have been on the whole deempahsized since I attended Williams. Yet, I had a tremendous experience at Williams in all respects. Remember, that close to 50 percent number includes a lot of club athletes. For example I had friends on the ultimate frisbee team (a club sport) who were by no means typical of the jock stereotype, to put it mildly. And heck, even many of the jocks weren’t – my frosh roommate was a football star who also played in the best band on campus and ended up attending a top-ten med school, and even though we were very different on paper (minority science-oriented athlete vs. white humanities-oriented non-jock), we became fast friends. </p>

<p>(2) Not at all for me, but then again, my high school could not have been more stereotypically clique. Basically, I felt in high school (which was the same size as Williams), I could only potentially really interact with 10 percent of the kids, while at Williams, the number was more like 90 percent. I did develop a very tight clique of friends by mid-way through soph year, but my first three semeseter, I had a huge number of friend groups that I floated through with ease, for what it’s worth. I think the answer tends to be, both: most people have a tight group of friends they live with, etc., but also have other spheres of friends they meet through activities, sports, classes, interests, etc. It’s a small enough school that you will probably interact with the majority of people in your class in some meaningful way at least once prior to graduation. </p>

<p>(3) Agree with others. Poly Ec program is unique and really good. Econ is very strong and always had top-notch faculty. Math is as good as it gets. Philo is usually very good. ANSO is small.</p>

<p>(4) Definitely a balance. There are plenty of people who are happy to put in a moderate amount of work outside of class, be very social, very active outside of class, and get in that 3.0-3.6 gpa range. Some are really intellectually engaged but more in an outside-the-lines sort of way, others are more about exploring many different interests, academics being only one. If you want to get into the 3.6-4.0 range, you will have to bust your ass consistently, especially for above a 3.8. Kind of hard to generalize here. </p>

<p>(5) You can see this year’s tutorials here: </p>

<p>[Williams</a> College Catalog](<a href=“http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php?strm=&subj=&cn=&sbattr=&enrlmt=&cmp=TUT&sttm=&endtm=&insfn=&insln=&kywd=&Action=Search]Williams”>http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php?strm=&subj=&cn=&sbattr=&enrlmt=&cmp=TUT&sttm=&endtm=&insfn=&insln=&kywd=&Action=Search)</p>

<p>I count 80, but about a dozen seem to be dupes. Still, when you consdier that few frosh take tutorials, you can easily find 1 (or if you are masochistic, 2 plus) per semester for the duration of your college career that you will enjoy taking.</p>

9

<p>In terms of the clique question, I think Williams is very different from high school. People are constantly branching out and drifting between social groups (I’m not sure if drifting is the right word, as that implies that the social groups are set in stone or more concrete than I think they are). Entries can be, but rarely are cliquey (after the first month at least). People are generally good friends with a large number of people. I’m constantly surprised by how many of my friends know each other from class or another activity. People generally do not settle into social groups and never socialize out of it. The school is just so small, and the people so friendly, you would have to really really try to not socialize outside of a prescribed group of friends.</p>

<p>I actually did something very similar to you in high school, and it was one of my main fears in coming to college. My experience here has been overwhelmingly positive in terms of friend groups. I’m constantly meeting new people based on connections I have with friends, people I have in class, or just seeing them at an a capella performance or a sports game. There are even quite a few people here who will just walk up to people and introduce themselves. Some of those people even become the best of friends. I think your concerns are definitely valid (I felt very similarly), but I have to say that here, I felt like I was worrying for nothing for a good part of my college application process - although that is blatantly retroactive thinking.</p>

10

<p>Sorry to raise this thread from the (relative) depths of this sub-forum but I have more questions! I visited Williams this summer (as well as Amherst and a few others) and decided that “she’s the one”. I’ve been doing a lot of research on the college and I have a few things to comment on and as a corollary, questions relating to them.</p>

<p>I know Williams has a strong alumni network which is largely born out of a common love for the school as well as for fellow Ephs. In fact, I heard that 60% of Williams students will end up marrying another Eph. Is that true? If so, that’s awesome! Also, we were in New York City after finishing up our tours and I noticed a Williams College flag flying proud on the Princeton Club of NY entrance. I read that Williams used to have its own club but had to move it to the PTon Club due to the economic downturn – is that true? What’s the club like and how well do younger alumni mingle with older alumni? The school’s changed a lot upon the move to a coed and then frat-less (or is it the other way) college, so does a common bond still exist between the older and younger Ephs? A big reason I prefer W over A is because Williams seems like a family, with Williams being part of who you are long after you graduate. Amherst, on the other hand, seemed to provide a formidable and fun four years but a four years that grads would move on from. That said, I don’t want my adult life to be a futile attempt to relive the Williams years, but I do want it to be a presence in my life. </p>

<p>I also realized that Winter Study is a really long period of time with not much going on academically. What do students tend to do during the abundant free time? I hope it doesn’t turn in to a booze-fest but idle hands are the devil’s workshop, no? Especially considering the isolated location, this kind of worries me. I don’t want to be partying all the time and I don’t want to constrain my social options if I choose to not partake in that kind of stuff constantly. Perhaps I’m still living in my own high school world, but I feel like with such a small campus, choosing to be “in” with the partying scene or not has social ramifications. </p>

<p>Finally, and perhaps as a consequence of drunk students on weekends, Winter Study nights and Homecoming weekends, there have been past incidents of hate-speech in the form of vandalism. Williams students have obviously had their say and the administration has fought back (at least on the surface) in a clear and definitive way, but are there not undercurrents of racism, homophobia and anti-semitism (Mary Jane Hitler) in the school? I hate to connect an unfair stereotype and this is me thinking out loud, but does a lot of this hate stem out of the old “jock presence” that Williams is known for? I mean, I feel bad for asking, but I just want Williams-associated CC’ers to contribute to the discussion of why this happens, why the administration seems to not be doing a job of quelling the hate and how this is a reflection of the school at large. I know the jock stereotype is a stereotype that is quite unfair (especially to Williams athletes, who are smart) , but in the spirit of free speech, I will leave it and ask others connected to the school to comment.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot!
Gratisfaction.</p>

11

<p>(1) That 60 percent marriage figure is an urban legend that is often repeated in discussions of Williams, but it is not accurate. I’ve heard the real figure is still quite high (and I can personally testify to it being high based on my peer group), but more along the lines of 10-20 percent.</p>

<p>(2) The Williams alumni network is indeed very strong, people who meet me who know about Williams inevitably make some sort of comment to the effect of, man, you Williams alums really drink the Kool-Aid. There is just an overwhelmingly strong connection forged (not by all alums of course, but a healthy majority) to the campus, the town, and our fellow Ephs. Check out the passion and participation (especially by the Williams contingent) at a Williams-Amherst regional football telecast, the huge number of people who attend reunions or go visit campus on other occasions, the tremendous Facebook presence / participation among Williams alumni (Eph Alum, Williams Athletics, and Williams College all have, I believe, the biggest followings that you will find on Facebook for any liberal arts college), etc. etc. as evidence, but in sum, yes, your instinct on this front is correct.</p>

<p>(3) That being said, the Williams Club is a vestige of a by-gone era. I am (obviously) a huge Williams booster, and many of my friends live in NYC, yet I know NO ONE who went to a single event at the old Williams Club, and I never set foot inside it (meanwhile, I return to campus about once per year). I think that, as much as the financial crisis, was why it closed down and combined with the Princeton Club … it was a relic. In the old days, Williams alums tended to stick around the northeast (no longer true, far more disperesed), and the whole gentleman’s alumni club option was appealing. Younger generations of alums would much rather gather locally (regional alumni associations are uber-active), or return to campus, than at a dated NYC venue that doesn’t really reflect contemporary cultural mores. </p>

<p>(4) Winter Study is the least of your worries, believe me!!! It was 16 of the best weeks of my life, without any doubt. Yes, it is very social, and yes, there is a lot more booze consumed during that time period. But a lot of folks also use the time in far more productive ways. Thesis students tend to get a big chunk of work done during that month, and that is a substantial percentage of seniors. Tons of folks take classes that involve travel off campus entirely, or communiting to a local / regional location for a good portion of Winter Study. Some take a long trip to Montreal, Boston or New York. Others get a season ski pass or play / watch tons of basketball or just catch up on movies and reading or take part in KAOS or teach a Free University class or do some intense volunteer work. Really, it is what you make of it, and if you don’t love the vibe on campus after your first year, it’s easy enough to create a project (or join an existing class) that will take you off campus for that month … although I recommend sticking around for at least 3/4 Winter Studies, because you are taking really, really intriguing classes with zero academic pressure. </p>

<p>(5) Your final question is the most important, and there have been a number of extremely troubling incidents that have marred campus in recent years. But it is safe to say that there are NO broad undercurrents of any sort of bias or animus among the student body (even if, among 2000 people, there might be a few who would say or do stupid things, likely when under the influence). The student body overwhelmingly responds, in an almost uniformly thoughtful, collegial, and concerted fashion, to any of the incidents that have occurred. And I think it is important to note that no one really knows who is responsible for the incidents you reference… the campus is VERY open, and I’d be surprised, frankly, if students were responsible for all of them (the only one that has actually been “solved” is Mary Jane Hitler as you call it, and that involved one very odd student and her much older, non-Eph boyfriend posting some really stupid flyers in an effort to be provocative). It could just as easily be someone from out of town (or a non-student local) looking to stir up trouble / do a really stupid prank. Even assuming the worst, you are talking about a few isolated incidents out of one or two likely-intoxicated students saying really offensive things, out of over 2000 students, the overwhelming majority of whom are incredibly supportive of all races, creeds, religions, sexual orientations, and in general, one-another. I certainly wouldn’t let these (obviously troubling) sporadic and still-cryptic incidents color or cloud your view of the Eph community in any way, and I’d pay more attention to how the community came together to respond, as well as the tremendous institutional support for diversity via physical spaces, events, college personnel, student leaders, and academic and social programming.</p>

12

<p>Thanks for the quick response! I have a few more questions I forgot to initially ask. First, how open is the Center for Development Economics to undergraduates? I am fairly certain I want to focus on development economics and the CDE is obviously phenomenal, so the opportunity to do research specifically in that field would really sweeten the pot. Secondly, I understand that the ED rate is the high 30s/low 40s – is there more to this than meets the eye? Are the bulk of these accepted students recruits or something?</p>

13

<p>Sure thing!</p>

<p>There is generally very little interaction between the CDE students and undergrads (I’ve heard of some on IM soccer teams, but that is about it). Most Williams students never even set foot in the CDE building. It does provide an advantage in terms of course work, however … the CDE classes are generally open to undergrads, and some upperclassmen with an interest in that field usually take advantage. And there is nothing preventing you from getting to know CDE students personally, you would just need to be a bit aggressive. Of course, one issue is that they are only on campus for one year. Because of the CDE, Williams does attract a lot of top-notch faculty focused on development economics, so there will be ample research opportunities in that area.</p>

<p>If you really love Williams and you are sure you want to attend, you should apply ED as it does give you a slight edge. However, it is only slight – the average scores and stats of ED admits tend to be as high or higher than the rest of the class, and that is despite the fact that around 25 percent of them tend to be (like at all NESCAC schools) recruited athletes with, on average, slightly lower stats than the rest of the admit pool. The main reason the ED number is so high is that the pool is very self-selecting: it includes Questbridge applicants, for example, as noted a lot of recruited athletes who have a pretty good idea of their admissions chances, some alumni kids in the same boat (they no longer receive any material admissions edge, but they do get counseled personally on their likelihood of admission), and a lot of academic stars. Still, even accounting for that, Williams values kids who really are excited to be there, so all things being equal, making that preference known by applying ED can only help, especially if you would be on the fence in terms of admissions.</p>

14

<p>That is good to hear! I’m not sure about my class rank as it could be anywhere from the top 15% to the top 10% (though I doubt I am top 5%) and that has really been worrying me. I don’t think my grades are of Williams standard, though one semester drop was due to illness that resulted in something close to 20 days out of school. My counselor knows this, but I almost feel like the admissions committee will see this as an excuse for a couple of Bs. I know this is general question, but is that illness worth getting note on my counselor rec? Or will it just make me seem like I have a bad attitude with excuses galore? </p>

<p>Also, I identify with two minority groups, one that CC would consider overrepresented (South Asian) and another they consider underrepresented (Hispanic). Though my name would make one assume I am of the former, would I be shooting myself in the foot by identifying as Hispanic but not South Asian? There is an individual question about being Hispanic and another about race on the CommonApp. Would answering yes to Hispanic but leaving the race form blank raise a red flag? I was worried it would and when I visited, and I didn’t identify as Hispanic on the visitor form but I did as South Asian. Would this change in consistency also raise questions? Should I email admissions about this?</p>

<p>Edit: If it changes anything, I go to a very competitive international high school where students outside the top 10% have been accepted to top schools. I guess many were legacies or just lucky beyond their dreams, but at schools like Cornell (for example), my GPA would put me right near the middle of accepted student’s GPAs (with probably above average SATs). I am also fortunate enough to be applying w/o financial aid – is this a plus or minus? I feel like it’s more of a negative but I’m not sure.</p>

<p>Edit Edit: I feel like I’m abusing your generosity. Thank you so much for all your help! It’s people like you that make me want to be an Eph even more. Talk about an ambassador for the school!!</p>

15

<p>No worries, happy to answer questions from someone enthusiastic about Williams!</p>

<p>I don’t have any unique insight into the thinking of admissions officers, so take this for what it is worth. But I am always of the view that more information is better than less. So, while I wouldn’t make a huge deal out of it, I do think that your counselor should mention your illness during your one semester of aberrantly bad grades. I would not mention it in an essay you write, for the reasons you note, but having your counselor talk about it would not seem like you were making excuses, and indeed, important to explain what happened.</p>

<p>I would definitely mark both Hispanic and Asian in the race boxes, if that is an option (or Hispanic / mixed race if that is how it is delineated). More and more kids of mixed race are applying, and Williams definitely is interested in diversity. Williams is one of the few top schools where Asian students are not dramatically overrepresented (there are roughly as many Latino and Black students, slightly less but it is close, as Asian students on campus), so I can’t see your South Asian heritage hurting you in any way, and certainly for Williams or any school in its peer group you should note your Hispanic heritage, as that will most certainly help. It couldn’t hurt to email admissions and ask them what to do, and I really don’t think it matters what you marked on some previous visit to campus. You should also ask them about resources for minority applicants as there are programs like Windows on Williams that you may be eligible for, which also serve as a way to highlight your interest in the school. </p>

<p>Regarding financial aid, if and only if you are applying as an international student, not asking for aid will help you. If you are applying as a domestic student, income will only matter in one of two outlying circumstances: you are so UBER rich that the college views you as a development admit (meaning, a family worth hundreds of millions or billions), or you are economically disadvantaged to the point where it makes your academic accomplishments all the more impressive by virtue of having to overcome a challenging background. IF you are like the majority of Williams applicants, in that you are comfortably middle class, upper middle class, or on the border of rich, your financial aid status is totally, 100 percent irrelevant to admission, and if you think you might qualify for financial aid, you should definitely apply as it will not hurt your chances of getting in.</p>