<p>MattSingsAlot
I've been reading other threads you have posted and forgot what program you chose for next year. It has been so helpful to read your remarks. Our S is traveling to Univ of Michigan, Carnegie Mellon, Univ of Cin (CCM) and North Carolina School of the Arts during spring break from Interlochen to tour and view classes. Can you give us feedback on your insights of these programs?</p>
<p>I of course looked into all those programs, since you need to keep your options open in such a competitive field. CCM, CMU, UMICH, and NCSA are all very well-known and reputable programs. I would rank them like this:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>CCM - An incredible school! Pretty much every show on Broadway has a CCM graduate in it. The program is intensive, small, intimate, and everyone I know who attended left and went into the "real world" with no surprises. Their opera program is one of the finest in the country as well, so their graduates are all known for fantastic singing. I am thrilled to say that I will be attending CCM this fall.</p></li>
<li><p>CMU - Carnegie Mellon has one of the best acting programs in the US. Add singing and dancing and you have an awesome place to train! Their LA showcase gives students the opportunity to be seen by television folks as well. I will remark that the quality of singers that graduate from the school is inconsistent. Sometimes they are just not vocally strong, but I will also come back and say that their actors are some of the finest in the business.</p></li>
<li><p>UMICH - UMICH is still making their way onto the map. They certainly have quite a few people who are enjoying HUGE success in the Musical theatre world. Like CCM, they ahve an incredible opera program at the school as well, so your voice teacher is bound to be great. Some of their shows, however, are not so hot. There is, I think, a larger amount of inconsistency with the talent in the program. HOWEVER - The training their is magnificent, and you can see that by their working graduates.</p></li>
<li><p>NCSA - NCSA, I would not consider among the "elite" schools, but I will never insult the program. They have a few well-known grads and I know that people from the program tend to get pretty steady work. It is a bigger program, which was a huge turn-off for me, but I know that the training there is of high quality, especially in dance. Terrence Mann, of Les Mis, Scarlet Pimpernel, Beauty and The Beast, etc. is a graduate of the program.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Also look at Boston Conservatory!</p>
<p>What does your son consider his strong points? Actor/Singer? Singer/Dancer? If you let me know that I can make a better recommendation of programs to look into. Hope this helps!</p>
<p>Matt....I think more appropriate feedback about schools would be to comment on which aspects appealed to you personally or other information. You ran into some "flak" on another message board for similar sorts of comments about the voice talent at CAP21, the shows at Tisch, and other comments. For instance, how many shows at UMich have you seen to be able to say some of their shows are not so hot? Also, UMich is "making their way onto the map"? Hardly....they ARE on the map. How do you know about the consistancy of the singers that graduate from CMU? Have you heard them all? As with all programs, and I told you this on another forum, the talent varies...some students stand out over some others, even in the most well regarded programs. </p>
<p>As I wrote you on another forum, I think it is better to say, X college appealed to me for the following reasons and this is how it differed from Y college. Some drawbacks for me were blah blah blah. The continued comments about the talent and the shows, I don't know if you are truly qualified to make with such broad sweeping generalizations, in all due respect. </p>
<p>By the way, you likely do not realize this, but the mom you are responding to...her son has attended the same summer program you attended last summer but during a different session. </p>
<p>Also while one should weigh where the graduates of a program are now in assessing a program, that is not the end all and be all of the strength of the program or the fit for a student. There are so many other criteria in evaluating a program and those specifics are the ones that people need to examine. For starters, look at the curriculum.</p>
<p>Matt, I'm saying this only because I see yourself getting into hot water again as you did on another forum this past week. I see you deleted many of your posts on that forum. But I think you may get similar responses here. Something to keep in mind and to be sensitive about. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>In response to SoozieVT's message I will say this. </p>
<p>You are obviously looking at the right places for college. If you are considering schools of that calibre and you go there and work your butt off, you will become successful. No school can make or break you. Everything rests on the hard work of the individual! My friend Cary is a freshman at Michigan this year, and he is not enjoying himself because he feels as though the other schools are further ahead, which is why I said that it seems they are still tweaking their program. I DO wish I had mentioned that UMICH's production of City of Angels was WONDERFUL. </p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon did an incredible production of The Wild Party a couple years back, and the vocal talent was top knotch. After a production in Atlanta featuring a CMU graduate, his advice to me was to make sure I got in with a good voice teacher. </p>
<p>The most important thing to remember when you get to a school is that your school is never the be all end all of theatre training. Take everything with a grain of salt! The teachers are credible, but they might not always be right. IF you feel like you're not happy with your voice teacher, find another one! IF it's a good school, there ARE good teachers. The important thing to remember is that you will never go anywhere and coast onto Broadway. Your instructors will be an invaluable resource to you, but go with your instincts, don't let yourself become consumed.</p>
<p>I do not mean to come off as putting down any program, I made that mistake once before and ended up realizing that I did not mean it in the slightest. I have a lot to learn from Soozie!</p>
<p>CCM</p>
<p>pros: Outstanding faculty, Great opportunities from NYC senior showcase, esp known for good singing, tons of great facilities, productions win awards</p>
<p>cons: Big university, not the best area of town, very competitive and sometimes cuthroat</p>
<p>CMU</p>
<p>pros: one of the finest acting programs in the country, very well rounded training, showcases in NYC and LA, many students perform with Pittsburgh CLO-->great company!</p>
<p>cons: big university, academically very rigorous, sometimes very cuthroat and competitive</p>
<p>UMICH</p>
<p>pros: incredible opera school connected with teh theatre program, great acting training, wonderful facilities, MICHIGAN IS GORGEOUS!, not sure about showcases but I am nearly positive their NYC showcase is widely attended, lots of performing opportunity, school works with composers on new work</p>
<p>cons: HUGE university, academically very rigorous, hardcore dancers tell me that dance is not emphasized enough (BUT THATS FINE WITH ME!)</p>
<p>all three programs are very small and intimate with lots of individual attention</p>
<p>i will look over the notes i took from NCSA and get back later!</p>
<p>thank you SoozieVT for your recommendation</p>
<p>I agree with Susan, in general, about making recommendations and stating sweeping opinions about various programs (although I'm not familiar with the discussion on another forum she references. Was that on one of the CC forums? Maybe I just missed it). I just wanted to comment on one aspect of that. </p>
<p>A family friend who has been in the theatre business, in many capacities, for several years was visiting this weekend and talking about various actors who are currently in Broadway shows. My youngest D has a friend who auditioned this year for UMich and so she was interested in where their grads are currently performing. This friend made a list for her about the top programs represented in several shows on Broadway. I can share with you what they were, for interest's sake. It's not a totally comprehensive list, but it will give you an idea of who is on Broadway from a few different schools. :)</p>
<p>UMich: Garrett Miller, Barrett Foa, Celia Keenan-Bolger, Todd Buonopane, Alexander Gemignani, Lauren Molina, Hunter Foster, Glenn Allen, Daniel Reichard.</p>
<p>CMU: Howie Michael Smith, Josh Gael, Greg Stuhr, Natalie Venetia Belcon, Diana DiMarzio, Donna Lynne Champlin.</p>
<p>Tisch: Haven Burton, Manoel Felciano, Anika Ellis, Jennifer Naimo, Eliza Winter, Michael Longoria.</p>
<p>CCM: Benjamin Magnuson, Lisa Howard, Bill Nolte.</p>
<p>So, as you can see, UMich is much more than "still making their way onto the map"! And "pretty much every show on Broadway has a CCM grad in it" is not the case. This is the problem with sweeping generalizations. As a teacher of mine used to say, "they sometimes sweep the truth away".</p>
<p>Also, adding to susan's comment, there are many MANY students currently attending each one of these schools who weren't in the shows you saw. the students who get cast aren't necessarily "the best of the best" from a particular school (not to say they aren't talented -- i have full confidence that they ALL are) -- they are the ones who FIT that show.</p>
<p>as you must know, there are many kids who don't get cast because they're too tall, too blonde, too something else, etc -- so you can't judge EVERYTHING based on the shows you've seen. i'd say sitting in on classes is more likely to give you an idea of the full range of talent. then again, it's impossible to see the talent of EVERY student and EVERY school.</p>
<p>every school will put on a show that you deem "not so hot" every now and again. even broadway shows you see will sometimes not quite meet your standards -- that doesn't mean the performers aren't talented.</p>
<p>the schools you mention are only a few of the many great schools for MT in the country, and almost always the best fit for a student isn't based on who the graduates are, but the environment of the school. many talented as successful performers don't come out of "top tier" schools or schools that are "on the map".</p>
<p>i would suggest considering using the PM feature to discuss subjective observations of different schools that may cause some upset. as i said on the forum susan is talking about -- (almost) every MT school in the country will have either a student or a parent who reads/posts/lurks on this board. though you are making broad, opinionated generalizations about schools, some of the negative comments you offer may be taken personally when you don't intend them to be so.</p>
<p>just keep that in the back of your mind as you post. </p>
<p>maggie</p>
<p>EDIT -- i posted this before i saw the few posts that came before mine and after susan's. sorry for the reiteration.</p>
<p>Matt...here is advice for not just you but for all students who are looking into colleges...I truly tell all kids this....talk to MANY current students. Do not formulate an opinion based on one kids' comments or take on a program because that is THAT student's experience or perspective and very well might not be your experience should you attend. For instance, if you know one student at a program and that student is not happy, that doesn't mean YOU would not be happy there. By the way, I would not mention a student's name on a public forum in that context without their permission. If a friend is not happy with a voice teacher, maybe you would be, who knows? Each student comes to an educational experience with different perspectives. When my kids visited colleges, as well as through phone and emails, they contacted and spoke to several students at each one. For instance, even the program my D currently attends, I can think of a student who had not been thrilled in it (not negative but not thrilled either) and had my D only spoken to her, she'd have just that opinion. But she spoke to many others who loved it. Now, she attends and she couldn't be happier there. That is but one example. At UMich, since you brought that school up, there is a boy from your summer program who went for many summers but before you attended. He is not only truly talented but he is very happy at UMich.</p>
<p>Also with the shows....you kinda did this on another forum....seeing one show at a college is not enough to make a generalization about their productions. There, you came back and responded as you have here about these schools, that you actually saw another production that was good at that college. I'd just comment on a particular production and not paint a broad stroke. As with most schools, the talent will vary....some in a cast may stand out and some may be so so. That's even true in professional theater, LOL. </p>
<p>I think it is OK to mention what is not appealing to you about a school, and you don't have to just laud a program, but it is better to be specific about the criteria....such as "not enough dance for me" or "no showcase" or "no private voice" or "too big" or "not enough liberal arts offerings" or "don't want a cut program". That kind of compare/contrast is more meaningful for others to read. Just a suggestion.</p>
<p>Do you not have school today?</p>
<p>We're alll cross posting and I did not see any of those posts when I posted post #11. By the way, AlwaysAMom, the posts I was referring to were on another internet forum, not CC, and had to do with NYU/CAP21. Maggie was a participant in that thread and knows what I am talking about. </p>
<p>Matt...your latest post is better because you bring up pros and cons but let's remember, those are pros and cons for YOU. For example, rigorous academics is a plus to my kid and may not be to you or someone else. My kid wants challenging dance or many levels of it, and a balance between acting, singing and dancing and some other kid may not care about dance so much. Just examples.</p>
<p>One thing to point out about CMU that you brought up....you mention rigorous academics but the BFA in MT program at CMU is mostly conservatory with very little liberal arts courses compared to many other BFA programs so the rigorous academics wouldn't be so much of a factor there. Yes, it is a selective university but that doesn't affect the BFA program experience there so much. Even in terms of admissions there, the audition is weighed 90% of the decision. </p>
<p>Also, let me assure readers that UMich's BFA showcase in NYC IS attended well by agents in the industry and the program has a very good reputation. My D has an agent in NYC who has commented highly of their graduates. One is even up for a Tony.
Susan</p>
<p>Hey Matt,
As far as I can tell, you're not attending these programs, right? Aren't you just accepted? </p>
<p>We tend to be pretty conservative on this board (as opposed to other boards) and we try not to go off the deep end on anything and try to present factual information. I could take your personal rankings and comments more seriously if you were actually attending a college program, had graduated and were working, etc. </p>
<p>A little humility and care about information you're putting out will go a long way over here.</p>
<p>This is an interesting set of opinions and I'd like to weigh in here. </p>
<p>Personally I thought that many of Matt's observations were right on target. And while as a Wolverine Mom I appreciate and concur with the information presented by others supporting the fact that UM is not exactly "still making its way onto the map," there is something in this exchange that concerns me more than the specifics of the opinions presented.</p>
<p>I don't know anything about the other forum where Soozie suggests that Matt has gotten himself in trouble and I actually think it is rather unfair to bring that information over here as a way of discrediting him. Again, while I don't take everything he wrote as "the gospel," I don't know why he should be reprimanded for expressing his opinion. To me, it was clear that he was just expressing his opinion, which is not something I think we want to get in the habit of criticizing. His ranking was HIS ranking, not expressed as some national opinion poll. I also don't think we want people to feel that they can only say what they LIKE about a program and NOT what they find problematic. As always, it is up to each individual student and family to check out these programs and form their own opinions. If someone comes on here and posts false FACTUAL info, I think it is clear that people will step forward and offer evidence to refute it. But we will lose a lot if we start to move into censoring personal opinion. There are lots of smart folks reading and posting to this forum. I trust that they can usually discern the difference between opinion and fact.</p>
<p>Maybe lighten up a bit? Free speech everyone. Gotta love it!</p>
<p>Wow this thread was so hijacked. Let's take it somewhere else. IACBOI CONGRATS ON IAA. I love you so much and know that next year is gonna be great for you. </p>
<p>I have two friends who are juniors at IAA this year and they are lovin it. I personally know that Interlochen is an incredible place to explore your art form, and the academics at IAA seem to be very rigorous. My amount of homework versus my friends' is verrrry different.</p>
<p>Hey Chrism,</p>
<p>I have to tell you that I take more issue with your categorization of the posters on this board as more "conservative" than on other boards, than with anything Matt has posted here. Please speak only for yourself.</p>
<p>I would like to self identify as a card carrying liberal and proud of it. Maybe a tad less so than when I was in my teens and 20's, but compared to the conservatives and neocons of today, definitely liberal.</p>
<p>OK, duly chastised! you're right. </p>
<p>the very liberal,
Chrism</p>
<p>Aspiring - sorry for the continued hijacking :)</p>
<p>But I wanted to give a big BRAVA to theatermom for her post "Lots to Lose".</p>
<p>And - while everyone's list of "successful grads" would look different - I think listing only 3 for CCM is a mighty short list --- What about Aaron Lazar (Light in the Piazza), Sara Gettelfinger (DRS), Justin Bohon, Tyler Maynard, Shoshanna Bean? I've heard Wicked referred to as "CCM alumni day"; I think there are several in either the Broadway or Chicago casts. There are several more CCM grads who are not household names (even theatre households) who are working steadily in various ensemble parts. </p>
<p>Same holds true for UMich -- and I presume Tisch and CMU, although I am personally not as familiar with them. AND - the same also is true for several other schools not listed in the original post.</p>
<p>Wow. I find it very interesting that NCSA is even mentioned among the better MT programs since they don't have an MT major and don't do many MT productions though they are definitely one of my frontrunners for straight acting - right up there with the big J. On another note ... It seems that the only time anyone gets grilled for their opinions on programs around here is when they say something even remotely critical of Tisch or somehow omit paying homage to them. Some of you homers might wanna think about that.</p>
<p>The socially liberal and fiscally conservative,
Fishbowlfreshman ;)</p>
<p>I definitely want posters to voice opinions, both pro and con about programs. I don't just want to read sugary stuff about programs. Perhaps it is because I have already read other posts on this vein elsewhere and that was problematic, that was what I was advising this talented young man, whom I know, to be sensitive about. It was more HOW it is presented, not the actual opinions themselves. Having read comments that kids at one program do not sing very well or that one production was seen and thus their productions are not so good at X college, etc. were all part of what I have read and so all this information is in my head, not just these posts. Even Matt himself realized some of those comments did not work so well for readers on another forum. He had apologized there and I commended him for his character in doing so. I was advising that a better way to put things is to say what was not appealing for him in regards to what he wants in a program or compare/contrast with other schools certain criteria. It is OK to post comments that are not complimentary about a program. It is how it is done and to not come across as either bashing or else as making broad generalizations such as "all of them can't sing" or some such after meeting one person or seeing one show, or something of that sort. He has tried to now do that here. Thanks, Matt. </p>
<p>I realize others may not have read other posts elsewhere but I did not want to the reaction that this young man got there, to again happen here and could see it possibly going that way. I also think opinions are better when backed up a little bit. Saying there is inconsistancy in a program...I'd like to hear how many classes or shows were observed at UMich to make a statement of that nature.</p>
<p>I also think it is important to not form a broad opinion based on talking to one kid in a program, etc. If one kid you talk to is unhappy or another thinks the voice lessons are not so hot, I'd not want to say "kids are not happy here" or "the voice lessons aren't that great"....I'd only want to know that one person felt that way but after talking to three more people, those felt differently and I have to dig further, or some such.</p>
<p>So, yes, we really do welcome and want lots of opinions about specifics of each program. I'd want to separate opinions from fact....ie, a showcase being well attended or not is a fact, not an opinion....and I'd also advise a student to think about HOW the opinions are stated and give some basis for them. That is more effectual. Again, I realize I have read posts more than just on this forum so that's where I was coming from and I didn't want any problem for this young man if others came out and were offended by such comments. I know he wouldn't really want that either and regretted how it came across some place else. </p>
<p>So, do keep telling what your personal pros/cons are about programs, any observations, etc. All opinions should be able to be mentioned. How to express them needs to take into account some sensitivity to those who attend the programs, as well as some back up of how the opinion came to be.....based on one show? Many shows? Talking to just one student? Etc. That helps to back up one's opinions. </p>
<p>In general, as my own personal preference, I prefer hearing students talk about what factors about a program were a pro or con for them...what is appealing, what is not....contrasted to why another school fits them better, etc. </p>
<p>I also think there needs to be senstivity to prospective students who are reading because when a student posts that he will be accepted to NYU or has been to BOCO and other students know that decisions have not yet come out and so this becomes concerning. I'm not going to get into what was posted elsewhere but to say that these are all things to be sensitive to when posting.</p>
<p>Yes I have to say that the CCM alumni were severely underrepresented in that post.</p>
<p>I honestly feel that Matt was just stating his opinion. We know that he is a young man with great enthusiasm who was simply trying to help since he was asked his opinion. I think that there are times when people are a little too anxious to jump down other's throats when stating opinions. No one said Matt was an expert. He just stated his personal opinions.</p>
<p>Fishbowl...the programs being discussed here were not some rating but simply the schools that FrozenchosenAK happens to be visiting. </p>
<p>Any comments I made to do with Tisch, admittedly, are based on comments made on another forum but my point was about being sensitive to the way opinions or broad statements are made overall as it was a pattern to think about. I feel that way about comments about UMich, CCM, or CMU just as much. For instance, UMich is not just making its way on the map, etc.</p>