Questions re: CMU, CCM, NCSA, UMichigan

<p>i definitely agree that sometimes people take offense too quickly, but it IS important to remember to be sensitive and indeed to remember that opinions are indeed opinions.</p>

<p>when one is stating the cons, i simply think it's better to state objective points (not enough dance, etc.) on the public forum, and subjective ones (didn't like the voices, etc.) through PMs or emails to avoid any sort of major upset. (this isn't for matt only, this is for everyone). </p>

<p>it's perfectly fine to say "there are some things i didn't like about ______ that i would prefer not to say publicly. i would be happy to share my experience if you PMed/emailed me" -- which is why i brought up the point about the PM feature (i also didn't know if matt knew it was there....i know i didn't know until i actually RECIEVED a PM!)</p>

<p>of course i'm only speaking for myself...but i am by no means reprimanding matt or anything he said -- simply trying to avoid future mishaps. i think we all know we try to keep this board the helpful and constructive place that it is instead of a place to get into arguments about things others have said.</p>

<p>on another (on-topic) note -- being accepted to IAA is a wonderful achievment and a great opportunity to get some excellent training. MAJOR CONGRATS!!</p>

<p>MusThCC, you are misrepresenting what I posted. I wish you would reread it. I made it clear that it was a non-comprehensive list of grads currently working in Broadway shows, a list made by a producer friend for my D. I never pretended that it was simply a list of successful grads! My goodness, if we're going to comment on specific posts, let's try to be accurate, please. The only reason I mentioned those lists at all was in response to the post about UMich not being on the map and that CCM had a grad in every Broadway show. And, like I said, sweeping generalizations like that are just not factual, if we're talking facts here, as someone has subsequently mentioned.</p>

<p>In any case, the list was not mine because if it had been Shoshana would have been on it because she's a family friend and I know she is a CCM grad! :) It's possible he didn't include Sara because she left DRS a couple of months ago, and maybe that's also the case with Tyler and Justin. I'm not sure that they're still in Mamma Mia and The Producers, respectively. Do you know? Maybe they're in another show? There are certainly many successful CCM grads, I know several personally. Just as there are for most of the schools discussed here. Again, it was the particular statements which prompted my earlier reply.</p>

<p>I think that opinions are great, and we all have them, but generalizations are not. Everyone's informed opinion is valuable but saying, for example, a particular program is perfect or that one is awful, isn't helpful to anyone. These programs all contain both pros and cons.</p>

<p>I don't think that Chrism was referring to politics when making the post saying that we on this list are "conservative." I think the post intended to say that on this board, we try to err on the side of caution when making statements about a school, its reputation, ranking etc. In other words, I think Chrism was saying that we don't generally throw caution to the wind and make statements such as "University of XXXX has an awful MT program and everyone knows it" or "University of YYY's program is the best one out there, and everyone knows it." Rather, we try to say "The strong dance curriculum and small class size of University of ZZ really appealed to me," etc.
Politics have NOTHING to do with this discussion. "Conservative" does not just mean to describe a certain brand of political thought. It can also be taken to mean careful, and erring on the side of saying less, and more carefully, rather than more, and less carefully.
L</p>

<p>Theatermom,</p>

<p>Thank you for expressing what really needs to be said in all of these comments. For this to truly be an informative forum it needs to be able to shed light on differences of opinions on various programs. That is what helps prospective college mt parents such as myself. I read the good with the bad, certainly know not to take one opinion as gospel and like being able to consider everything that I read (not only a part that has been selected for me to read). </p>

<p>I don't only want to read the glory. I want to read why a particular person does not like something about a program. It is not personal. It is one person's opinion. Like theatermom said...maybe we could all lighten up a bit. </p>

<p>If someone is stating a fact then, yes, please say "this is factual information" or something of the sort. Otherwise, I think we should all be aware that the information presented is clearly opinions of those who are posting at the time. I value each and everyone's opinions on this forum. If someone takes time out of their busy day to make a statement, it should be heard (ok....without profanity of course). I appreciate them for writing it. Snide comments back and forth only make other people unwilling to post things that they may really want to contribute to the discussion. </p>

<p>Hey...if someone says something about a particular favortie school of yours, please know that it's just THEIR opinion. If you love it, your child loves it....that is what truly matters! Opinions cannot be incorrect...they are just opinions. We should all be able to have them! Smile everyone...this is a great place filled with wonderful information. Share it.....share it all!</p>

<p>You are absolutely right Not Momma Rose. Chrism and I have exchanged PM's and we are totally on the same page. Thanks for clarifying this for the rest of the faithful!</p>

<p>btw...there are posts about Wagner College's recent musical production not being very good. I am sure that there are parents whose children go there who may be bothered by that, but the comment was not meant to demean anyone. It was only the poster's opinion. I am sure there are people out there who may have loved it! I love to be able to see things from all sides!</p>

<p>I will apologize if I came off as not wanting Matt to express negative opinions about CCM, CMU, UMichigan or NCSA as that was not my intention. I, too, want to hear the pros and cons and personal opinions of those who are familiar with the programs, as well as have people explain their familiarity or how they came upon their opinions. I don't want to just limit opinions to the wonderful stuff. I also want to hear MANY perspectives. I know when we looked into programs in my own family, a big objective was to garner as many perspectives from those in the programs or familiar with them and not rely on just one person's word or even the buzz out there. </p>

<p>I will admit that the reason I replied to Matt was taking into account ALL that I have read that he has posted on the internet, and not just on this thread and I realize that others had not read any of what I had read. I have spoken to Matt recently before today's thread, and my purpose posting this time was to help Matt because I was wary that he might end up treading down a path that was problematic before. I will not post comments made elsewhere on this forum but the manner that an opinion is given in, was the issue, not necessarily the actual opinions. We have to be careful to not come across as bashing in certain wording and/or making broad generalizations about all the talent in a program, etc. It is better to state as specific opinion, how you arrived at it and why a program has some cons for you, I think. I just didn't want Matt to get into any problems here on this thread and was trying to jump in before that happened as I was concerned based on other readings, that it might and I know he had regretted some other posts on other days in terms of how things were expressed. But yes, definitely bring on ALL takes on a program. I'd rather specifics than broad generalizations based on talking with one person or seeing one show, etc. Statements like "all the boys at this program are......." aren't helpful to me as a reader. I'd rather hear that someone saw productions at two different schools and was more impressed with the singing talent at X school than Y or something like that. Jumping to conclusions that all the talent at the school is not good is not helpful to me, particularly when one has not spent a great deal of time at that school. </p>

<p>I feel this way about any school and not just ones I may have a connection with. It is hard to read a statement about the inconsistent vocal talent at CMU for instance, without learning just how such a conclusion was reached or how much the person has observed there. Explaining what you actually know and what you observed and why you think this of it, is just more helpful. </p>

<p>So, I realize that anything I read today on this thread alone was not entirely problematic but I brought to it my observations of other posts over time and wanted to help the poster find ways to express his opinions about the cons of programs in his eyes that might be put in ways that will have people view it with a critical eye and as helpful in terms of voicing personal perspectives and how they came to be. I was trying to help ward off any aggravation or problems for the poster before hand and to proceed with some caution to not repeat some mistakes from another instance. He knows what I am talking about and in very good character, I might add, made amends before. I also think Matt nicely came back today and wrote posts about his personal pros/cons on programs being talked about. That is a helpful way to state opinions, I feel.</p>

<p>By the same token, each person has a different level of comfort when posting. For me, when I have seen a production at a college, I am happy to post what was strong about it but am sensitive to readers who go there when it comes to posting some negatives and might do so more in private correspondence. For example, I can think of a musical my D recently saw where she raved about the talent of several people in the show but thought one person was just not up to par and was miscast. I just would not want to put that out there on a forum read by those who for all I know, know this person. I just am not comfortable doing that. I also would not go so far as then saying the talent at that school wasn't so hot. But I do think it is OK to be critical of the arts of course! It is just where or when I happen to choose to express such criticism.</p>

<p>soozievt,
In reading posts starting from last year, I saw that your D was accepted into multiple (great) programs. Would you share how she ultimately made her decision? At the risk of jinxing this year's results, I think my D will have to weigh such things as geographic location and size with the particular aspects of each program. It would be helpful to know what tipped the scales in favor of Cap21. Thanks.</p>

<p>This original post for this thread would make a very interesting discussion. I am in contact with someone facing some similiar choses and wanted to get a wide range of feedback (particularly from kids in the program or parents of kids in the program). </p>

<p>As for posting Etiquette, you have valid point. No let's move on.</p>

<p>There is a wealth of information on all of these programs (perhaps less so on NCSA asit doesn't have a formal MT program) and many other wonderful choices all over this forum. Start with the threads under the individual program listings at the top of the Forum page. Also consider doing a search in the MT archives which are also chock full of information. Hope you have a comfortable chair! It will take awhile but is well worth the read.</p>

<p>Has anyone heard from NYU yet - not ED???</p>

<p>As a coach who works or has worked with students who attend CCM, UM, and CMU (as well as many other programs), I really recommend talking to upperclass students and recent grads of any programs which you are comparing, especially if it's possible to do so "off the record" so you get answers that are as candid as possible!!! I think no one can be a true COMPARISON authority, since to be one would entail having gone through each program as a student. Each year, I watch the shows and showcases, hear from current students of master classes and other class activities, absorb summer stock audition/callback/casting experiences, etc., from many BFA programs - and there is NO consensus about ANY school from the students currently enrolled, or from the grads. I am absolutely not claiming to be an "expert," since I myself did not go through several BFA programs :) - but I AM advocating that anyone who wishes to examine a school talk to people with true perspective on the programs, not just the party line about each school (which, as with all stereotypes, is rooted in truth but then often altered/exaggerated/misrepresented). And even then, you are going to hear quite successful, young working actors who HATED their schools or LOVED them - classmates, same graduating year, similar professional successes, but VERY different perspectives. The next-best thing is to talk to UPPERCLASSMEN currently enrolled in the program. Many freshman, and sometimes even sophomores, have very exaggerated impressions of their schools, either VERY negative or VERY positive, or both, depending on the day - they are still settling in to college life in general and facing the normal ups and downs of a performance program, and also perhaps facing real "competition" for the first time. </p>

<p>I spoke at length with one of my coaching colleagues about this thread yesterday, and he said, "Well, I was unhappy at times during my freshman year, too" - but ultimately, he was very happy with his choice. He went through an adjustment period where he was simultaneously finding his "place" in the program and the professional world. </p>

<p>My favorite posts here are ones like theatermom's, where people basically say: "I know THIS program well through direct experience, and I will gladly share that with you." But until one has direct experience, there is a danger of erroneous information being shared not stats and the like, but "insider info" on faculty, curriculum assessment, etc. I know this process is so stressful and nebulous for parents and auditionees that it's easy to grasp onto any bit of info that sounds authoritative - but my best advice is to REALLY weigh not only the source but that source's REAL area of DIRECT knowledge. I know what I know because of my MT "kids" who share many of their daily experiences with me - and I listen carefully to as many other students and alums as I can come in contact with so that I can also hear any "contradictory" perspectives. </p>

<p>All of the above may simply be common sense, but as the juniors and their families begin to really focus in on the next year, it may be one helpful way to put everything in perspective.</p>

<p>First, welcome to posting on the Forum! Hope you continue to do so. We'd love to hear how things turn out for your D this season. </p>

<p>Your question about how my D chose CAP21 is a good question because it brings up how the decision is truly a personal one where each student has their own college criteria and then weighs which school fits their own preferances more than which school is "best". </p>

<p>I'M GOING TO ANSWER THIS IN A 2 PART POST BECAUSE THE PROCESS WASN'T BLACK AND WHITE OR SIMPLISTIC.</p>

<p>For starters, my D made sure to like each school on her list because she knew the odds of getting in were just so tough and that no particular school could be counted on. We figured she only needed one and hoped that would happen. While we were anxious if any would come through, we felt there was a decent chance that at least one might. We knew she'd be lucky to have a choice. We thought if she got into one of her favorites, then it is like icing on top. She decided to not fall in love with or pine away for one school because it might be a set up for disappointment. She better look at each school closely because that may be where she'd end up. The more she thought about the odds, the more she looked with open eyes at the schools that were not initially her favorites. She had visited 4 of her 8 schools prior to auditions and then ultimately all 8 for the on campus auditions. Ideally, we'd have liked to see them all the year before she auditioned but the kink in that plan was that she decided to graduate a year early which pushed us into this process before I originally thought. We began midway through her 10th grade year (and normally would have started at the beginning of 11th grade to look at colleges as my older D had done) and thus we could not fit in hardly any visits that year and my other D was also a college applicant and we had her process and visits that spring to her accepted schools. I can say, however, that when we visited some schools for the first time for the actual auditions (winter of her junior/senior year), she came to like more programs much more in person than whatever she knew on paper or word of mouth before visiting. I think she really started to open up and explore each one when she realized any one of these might be where she'd end up. </p>

<p>As with all students, certain schools were favored early on and again, in her case, she visited some schools before she applied and so all schools were not looked into as in depth before the auditions as others and how much she liked each program tweaked more AFTER visiting during auditions. </p>

<p>Starting at the very very beginning (I sound like Julie Andrews, :D), my D had wanted to attend NYU/Tisch/CAP21 since she was about 12 or so. Granted we were not thinking one iota about college and surely didn't even look at which colleges have MT or anything remotely like that at the time. But she knew of CAP21 because she had been attending a summer theater camp since she was 9 1/2 and had ALWAYS had older friends and she knew some really talented kids who then went on to Tisch for college and so well, at that age, it was like, "I hope some day I can do that too." I recall being in NYC a few days before 9-11, and my D was almost 13 and she had an audition there and in between callbacks, we met up with Freelance (who posts here) and her D, a best pal from camp and we all walked around the NYU and Greenwich Village neighborhood and I recall the girls saying, "one day we're gonna go here and room together." :) So, already there was an afinity for that school before she ever explored colleges. </p>

<p>Then when she did her search in tenth grade, she made a list of each school and wrote down criteria about each one. The list was not that hard to come up with as by then she was aware of where MT BFA programs were located and she had many friends also applying to these programs (a lot of her friends are older) and their lists were fairly similar with some differences due to personal criteria. </p>

<p>If I recall my D's criteria...I know she wanted a balanced program with singing, dance, and acting. She likes all three areas and wanted to not focus on any one particular one area. She did care, however, that a program offer enough dance and have challenging levels of dance or if not, then where dance was a criteria for admission, as she had been dancing her whole life. She also wanted to be on the East Coast (though we put no restrictions on our kids with where they wanted to go) and did not want the South. She made ONE exception for UMichigan. As far as location, I think she preferred to be near a city if she had a choice, mostly due to having grown up in a very rural area and so she wanted that experience. She happens to love both NYC and Boston, always has. She also was always a very strong student and cares about the challenge level of academics. While she definitely wanted a BFA program, she wanted SOME liberal arts courses as she does want some education beyond training, and ideally, she wanted the college as a whole (outside of the BFA program itself) to be a more selective or challenging college. This was more ideal for her but she'd have passed that up if she had to. These were merely preferences if she had any say in where she got in. She didn't want a cut program. She wanted intensive challenging training, while still being nurturing. She examined each aspect of every program such as curriculum, performance opportunities, size, and then trying to talk to as many current students as possible. She tried to do overnights and/or meet up with kids on campus, observe a class or meet with whomever she could in the departments. With each program, she was able to list some features that were appealing about it. Not all the features were the same at each school so it wasn't always apples to apples. Examples: PSU has these cabaret type troupes, Syracuse has semester in London and semester in NYC, UMichigan had opportunities to continue with piano, some schools had good student run productions besides mainstage ones, and so forth. Some things you can compare equally amongst programs like location, size, curriculum, and others are just unique to each program and there might be some appealing extras about each one. </p>

<p>Having visited all these programs, my D had 2 favorites, NYU & UMich. Both just met her criteria the best but also she simply just really liked both, plus spent time with kids at both overnight. While NYU had been a favorite before her process began, and she was going to apply ED there in fact, but she decided to go to see UMich in Sept. of her jr/sr year and when she did, she found that she liked it as much as NYU, and then decided to NOT apply ED to NYU and just see what happened. </p>

<p>So, as the audition season began NYU and UMich were her top choices and tied in her mind. At that stage, she would have said Emerson was third BUT a big part of this was that Emerson was one of the four schools she had visited and so she knew it better and she had friends there and spent some time there and loves Boston and liked what she saw. I have to say that AFTER she did all 8 auditions, Emerson moved lower down in her mind. She still liked it but found she was liking other programs more now that she visited. Originally she didn't want strictly conservatory but she liked BOCO a real lot and where it had been nearly last on her list early on, it moved up later on. She seemed willing to almost forego the academic options she'd have to if she attended but kept saying that the actual liberal arts courses they offered happened to be ones that interested her. We also got to see a show there (only got to do that at BOCO and PSU) and the show was very good and that elevated the school more in her mind at that point. Ithaca pretty much was her last choice. The program is very good and actually someone from our HS had graduated it in recent years and loved it. However, if given a choice, she liked other schools more. Ithaca was the only school on her list where you can't walk to anything off campus even though the town is only about a mile or two away (and the town just didn't thrill her). Also, dance is weaker at Ithaca and they admit there that it is not a big component or as emphasized there. She didn't like that given there was no dance audition to get in, that there were not dance levels in the program and so too many levels of skill would be in one class. Also there were only two years or levels of tap and she is very into tap. Otherwise, it seemed great and the students were very happy there. It was her first acceptance and so she kept an open mind when she got it. She liked PSU way more after the visit. It was a balanced program and the kids seemed happy. The reputation hasn't built up as much yet but it is a newer program. The talent varied in classes observed and in a production, but that is true everywhere. She ended up liking the campus once there though the location is not as appealing to her. Her cousin goes and loves it. She ended up liking Syracuse a bunch. The program was real balanced and she liked mostly everything she learned about it. Location also not as appealing but otherwise, the school elevated in her mind once she auditioned there. She came to like CMU MUCH more after visiting, than beforehand. Originally she was concerned about dance and all but after meeting kids there, seeing their talent, had a friend in the program, meeting kids who were dancers and happy with it, she ended up really liking it. I wondered how much she would have liked the focus on drama and not that many musicals and not quite as much dance or liberal arts but she did get into it from the visit, even if some criteria on paper differed from what she had originally wanted. Sometimes there is a "feel" of a program that you can't pinpoint and you gotta take that into account when visiting. This one appealed in some intangible ways. </p>

<p>to be continued in the next post>></p>

<p>At that point, she had such an open mind because she didn't know what was gonna happen in her results. I think Syracuse, BOCO, and PSU rose up more in her mind and Ithaca and Emerson went down some in her mind. UMich and NYU remained her favorites, though CMU was one she liked a lot too just under that. She said she hoped she didn't get into both NYU and UMich (and it was unlikely anyway!) because she'd have trouble deciding. Then she got rejected from UMichigan, so that option was out. She learned of that rejection in February and then she just kept a REAL open mind and didn't state favorites too much and wanted to wait and see. </p>

<p>She ended up getting into NYU/CAP, Syracuse, Ithaca, BOCO, Penn State, was on the Priority Waitlist for CMU but for Acting (and frankly, we'd both agree that it was better to not get off that waitlist because she didn't want to be torn about going there as she liked it but knew inside she much preferred to do a MT program and that would be a hard decision), and she was admitted to Emerson itself but not the BFA (would never consider going there without the BFA program). As each acceptance came, she was excited about whichever school it was at the time and considered it. But when NYU came through (this was all while she was very injured in a hospital), she knew she wanted to go there and while she had tried to keep an open mind about all programs since her favorites might not come through, but when one of her first choices DID come through, she never discussed WHERE she'd be going, it was a done deal. She heard the news on the phone and was crying for joy. The decision of where to go just never came up after that! She heard she got into BOCO after she heard from NYU. </p>

<p>As a parent, I didn't care where either of my kids went to college and so there was no influence on our end. I had no favorite and mostly wanted to see my kids happy with whatever choices they were given and fortunately for their sake, both had choices and both got into some of their top/first choices. That's all I cared about. </p>

<p>With Tisch...she likes the balance of all three areas, the levels of dance as well as that you get to do ballet, tap, and jazz in the same year as opposed to one one year, another a different year, the private voice, the strength of acting (an area she had less training in than voice and dance and so wanted to be able to work on areas she thought she would need more work on), the opportunity to take liberal arts, the fact that the greater university as a whole is a selective or more challenging academic setting and the kinds of kids who attend such schools fit her, the many performance opportunities, the variety of faculty she'd get to work with over time as opposed to just a few all four years, the way Tisch can bring in many people from the industry to work with students, lots of just networking due to its location (industry folks come to see shows and just lots of other things come up with those in the industry because they are there), and of course she loves NYC, also that she knew many older kids who attend who were very happy at Tisch and/or at CAP21, and so forth. As far as size, initially she was attracted to programs that have about 20 per year in the program. Programs much smaller than that felt too small for HER. While CAP is definitely bigger, her reasoning was that there were still less than 20 in a studio class (so that would be similar to going elsewhere) and that even for casting, she would say that at some schools, you have 80 kids total in the BFA program trying out for a show and while there are way more at Tisch trying out for certain productions, they also have a strictly second year CAP show and third year CAP show and so the numbers auditioning for those would be similar to the total numbers at a smaller program. I forgot to mention that my D also is into student run musicals having created/directed a few herself, and she liked that the ones at Tisch, called GAP shows, are very strong and she hoped to be involved (this year she was pianist for one show). While this was not a factor that convinced her, the cherry on top was being selected as a Tisch Scholar and some opportunities that go with that (she left on a trip with them today) and while we did not use the finanicial offers from any schools as a factor in deciding where to go and let our kids pick their favorite, it dosen't hurt that the Trustee Scholarship from NYU was the largest of her the scholarships she got from each school. </p>

<p>Now that my D has spent 6 1/2 months at this program, she couldn't be happier with her choice. She absolutely loves it and says she has learned so much. She loves the faculty, the other kids, the opportunities, and also the liberal arts courses, and is having a blast with lots of experiences outside of the program as well in NYC. She has seen numerous shows, has met many in the field, has a job in the field she enjoys, can attend summer stock auditions, loves her coed a capella group, is busier than any person should be (that's me talking) and is plain happy. She very well may have felt this way no matter WHERE she went. I have no complaints because my only care is that my kids are happy where they are. And they are. </p>

<p>I hope that this glimpse into one kid's process helps to show that it is really an individual thing...what one kid likes or wants in a program differs from the next kid, as it should. Out of all the programs my D applied to, I have never heard her put one down or speak negatively about it. She simply liked some more than others but felt they were all very good and had lots to offer. She (nor I) think NYU is the best there is, but only that she likes it the best.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>CoachC...I hadn't seen your post before I responded to Eliza's mom but I could not agree with you more on every single thing you wrote!!!!</p>

<p>PRFRMR20.....nobody would have heard from Tisch yet. The Saturday in the Square invites came out around March 21 last year and while those are an indication of acceptance, not every accepted student will get one of those so if you don't, you still can get in. However, invites for Sunday in the Square for NON Tisch students have gone out. My D's very close male friend from HS just got into Stern as a Scholar and has that invitation. Hold tight for Tischies.</p>

<p>With all due respect to Susan and her talented daughter - -
so many of the kids won't have to make a choice like hers. Many won't get in to any BFA MT program they apply to, some will get into one, vastly fewer get in to 2 or 3....or 5 or 6. </p>

<p>Just don't want perspective to get lost here!</p>

<p>I think the advice to talk to upperclass students ands recent grads is very solid. But how does a prospective student go about this, from a practical standpoint? We don't know anyone who attends or who has ever attended the schools my son is considering. He did meet students at his auditions and shadow days; they all seem very satisfied, as kids seem to settle in happily to whatever program they are attending. If you ask the school for the names of students to talk to, I'd assume it would be in their best interest to provide references of those they know are satisfied, right? So how to get unbiased opinions? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<p>Liz -</p>

<p>That is, of course, a great question - I have some practical ideas for those who don't have easy access to BFA students and grads and will think on it some more and post as soon as I can (after I attend to my patient responsibilities) - probably late tonight or tomorrow.</p>

<p>Chris, you are so right. Because my D did not anticipate a choice given the odds, she made sure to explore each program fully and not get too too into which would she attend. She had to wait to see what her results were. The decision might be made FOR the kid or else if lucky there may be a choice and then if the student has explored in depth, the student will have preferences. Also, a student can and often needs to, return in April, after decisions come out and narrow it to their choices and do a little more digging or overnights and come to a conclusion at that point. Don't expect a choice but if given one, try to have explored each option fully. Do not be focused on your top choices so much throughout senior year. Both my kids looked at every school on their list with the same depth of exploration. My older one made sure to like her safeties. She had favorites. Neither went into it with X school or bust. And with BFA applicants, getting a choice is not something we counted on. My kid got lucky to have choices and on top of that, that one of her first choices came through but we were prepared to NOT expect that. I can only describe our experiences but they certainly differ widely amongst students and that is why it is GREAT on this forum to hear ALL experiences. Those on round two like your D...we need to hear of THOSE journeys. We need to hear of those who had back ups that weren't BFA and so on and so forth. </p>

<p>Lizbennett....there are various ways to talk to current students and I also agree that talking to upperclass students is beneficial. Again, I REALLY think it is important to garner opinions of many different people who attend and not just one perspective. And definitely do not rely on scuttlebut but more on those directly in the programs. How to do that....lotsa ways.....one is if you know anyone attending but that isn't always the case. Sometimes, you may know that a friend of a friend of a friend goes and try to just get their names and contact them even if they are a stranger because current students are usually happy to help because they once were in those same shoes of being applicants wanting that same information. My older D has hosted kids she doesn't know...I have sent kids from CC to her even and she has shown them around and talked to them. Just yesterday at Brown, she met up with a friend of her sister's from her sister's camp and showed him around Brown. She herself was hosted at some schools by friends of friends by asking around. As well, when we visited campuses, and departments within colleges, we often randomly went up to students and asked questions. All were happy to oblige. As well, at some schools, you can ask for the department if there is a student you can talk to. Yes, that student is likely enthusiastic about the program but you can still ask your individiual questions. Talking to students randomly is a little better but anything helps. Also, many schools on audition days, have presentation panels by current students and/or make those students available on audition day and so that is a chance to talk to lotsa kids. We appreciated schools that provided that important link. As well, because you read CC, there are many parents and students from the various programs represented here. I am sure if you contacted some, like me, we can give our kids' emails for questions (I have done this and my child has answered inquiries from students I have sent to her whom she does not know) and if visiting, perhaps to meet up with these kids. Those are the various ways I know of....it take some digging but it is important and can be figured out usually. My kids were comfortable randomly going up to kids they ran into on campus and asking them questions. It was an important part of our visits, not just the tours and info. sessions. For my BFA kid, she knew someone at most of her schools because she has attended a theater camp and many alum now attend the various programs so she had that option.</p>

<p>Good information. This is what I hoped from this thread... people's perspective.</p>

<p>Anyone else out there at these schools or with kids at these schools? Your help is appreciated. We have some tough (but good) choices in the weeks ahead.</p>