Quick question about 3-2 program

College Majors Engineering Majors
21

<p>A BS and an MS are different degrees, that will attract somewhat different companies for different positions. You can't really compare them directly.</p>

<hr>

<p>I realize this, but I'm trying to look at the two...on average, I guess you could say?</p>

<p>To phrase my question in different words, what do you think will get the best job, on average: a BS from Columbia or an MS from a school like Case Western?</p>

<p>And if you don't like the way I posed the question, here's another way of asking it, lol.</p>

<p>Would you rather go out looking for a job with a BS from Columbia or an MS from Case Western?</p>

22

<p>"Seriously, no. My Dad graduated witha Ph D. in chemistry from Ohio State. He does the same job and earns the same pay (if not more) as physicists and chemical engineers who graduated from MIT, CalTech, Cal Berkeley, Wisconsin, and lesser schools."</p>

<p>But he has a PhD. Are you comparing him only to other people who graduated from the better schools you listed who also have PhD's?</p>

<p>I'm just making sure.</p>

<p>And, in any case, your dad is just one example. I doubt that engineers who graduate from a typical SUNY school make roughly the same, on average, as engineers from Columbia...</p>

<p>"you're talking about paying $40-50k for Columbia or $10-15k for UB or Stony Brook (and if you can get money from Columbia you can probably get significant money from a SUNY)"</p>

<p>The money I'm talking about getting from Columbia is in financial aid. So, given that Hendrix will cost me $17,000 a year (and its total cost is like $37,000), I would guess that Columbia would expect me to pay around $20-25,000 a year.</p>

23

<ol>
<li>Make sure that transfers get full aid at Columbia.</li>
<li>A BS from Columbia is definitely not equal to an MS from somewhere else. Anyway, there are probably a dozen schools with an equal or better reputation in engineering than Columbia and most of them are cheaper and easier to get into. Case Western is not one of these schools. Purdue, GA tech, and UIUC are better examples.</li>
</ol>

24

<ol>
<li>Make sure that transfers get full aid at Columbia.</li>
<li>A BS from Columbia is definitely not equal to an MS from somewhere else. Anyway, there are probably a dozen schools with an equal or better reputation in engineering than Columbia and most of them are cheaper and easier to get into.</li>
</ol>

<hr>

<ol>
<li><p>Will do.</p></li>
<li><p>Alright, thanks for clarifying that a BS from Columbia is way better than an MS from a top 40 engineering school, for example.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>And I thought Columbia was elite in math/science/engineering, etc.?</p>

<p>Even so, I could still go to Vanderbilt or WashU (but WashU has a 3.25 requirement).</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
Alright, thanks for clarifying that a BS from Columbia is way better than an MS from a top 40 engineering school, for example.

[/quote]

Erm I meant the opposite of this. BS and MS are very different things. I can't imagine a BS being more impressive than an MS unless we are talking Columbia vs. University of Wyoming or something else ridiculous.</p>

<p>EDIT:

[quote]
And I thought Columbia was elite in math/science/engineering, etc.?</p>

<p>Even so, I could still go to Vanderbilt or WashU (but WashU has a 3.25 requirement).

[/quote]

Columbia is good in those areas, and Fu is definitely more recognizable the other two. However, you exaggerate the differences between engineering degrees. The overall prestige of your college isn't nearly so important as it might be in other careers, and may not line up with that of the engineering program in particular. A engineering graduate from UT Austin might fare better than one from Yale, unless he is trying to go into Ibanking or something.</p>

26

<p>You said "anyway" as opposed to a word like "additionally"...which led me to think you thought a BS Columbia is better, lol.</p>

<p>Oh well. This discussion, for me anyway, is pointless because I'm a senior and have obviously already applied to schools. All of them, with the exception of Case Western are LACs. </p>

<p>New questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Which is better at engineering overall under the 3-2 program: Vanderbilt or Columbia?</p></li>
<li><p>Would going to graduate school for engineering after the 3-2 program be worth it? It probably depends on how good the graduate school is, so let's say a top 50 or so graduate school for engineering.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>"However, you exaggerate the differences between engineering degrees."</p>

<p>In what way?</p>

27

<p>No, they all have Ph D's.</p>

<p>I honestly think you're way overrating the value of an Ivy league school. If you're not interested in a Ph D, why not get your BS at Hendrix, then get an M. Eng. at Cornell or Purdue or MIT or some other prestigious engineering school? It'll be cheaper, you'll have higher earning power, and it will take the same amount of time.</p>

28

<p>The trick to doing that, lol, is that you have to get accepted.</p>

<p>The 3-2 program is guaranteed.</p>

<p>That's the difference.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]

"However, you exaggerate the differences between engineering degrees."</p>

<p>In what way?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Engineers from very good schools don't make a whole lot more than those from schools you haven't heard of. The only major exception would be people from places like MIT that don't stay engineers.</p>

<p>This is not the case in business or law.</p>

30

<p>If you pull a 3.3/3.4, you will get into a top 20, maybe even top 10 M. Eng program. And an M. Eng from say, Penn State or Purdue or UIUC, will make more than a BS from Columbia and probably come out with less debt.</p>

<p>But you're a friggin senior in high school. You have no idea what you will want to do in three years. Honestly, in the past 9 months I've transferred schools, changed majors and have been everything from pre-med to pre-law. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it so much right now.</p>

31

<p>"Engineers from very good schools don't make a whole lot more than those from schools you haven't heard of."</p>

<p>This guy knows what he's talking about. I'd listen to him.</p>

32

<p>I've just done some research. Unless they go to wall street (MIT has some really in-depth info online about their alumni employment), engineers from top schools (MIT, Berkeley, Stanford) make something like $70,000 starting whearas people from a place like PRI make on average $60,000.</p>

33

<p>@2Kewt2Handle</p>

<p>Interesting...</p>

<p>I assumed engineering is pretty similar to, like you said, business, law, and so on. </p>

<p>If you enter into the 3-2 program, it's not like you have to stay committed to it though, if I'm not mistaken.</p>

<p>So, unless anyone disagrees, the best plan for me is to enter into the 3-2 program and see what happens when I'm a junior: if I have a great GPA, etc. then I guess I'll take my chances and complete my BS at Hendrix and legitimately apply to graduate schools; and if my GPA is bad (just over 3.00), finish the 3-2 program at either Vanderbilt or Columbia. (Remember, I'd get financial aid, so it's not like I'd being paying $50,000 as opposed to $15,000 somewhere else).</p>

<p>So is this a good plan?</p>

<p>"I've just done some research. Unless they go to wall street (MIT has some really in-depth info online about their alumni employment), engineers from top schools (MIT, Berkeley, Stanford) make something like $70,000 starting whearas people from a place like PRI make on average $60,000."</p>

<p>But is Columbia or Vanderbilt in Berkeley and Stanford's class (I know they're not in MIT's class)?</p>

34

<p>Does Hendrix offer a BS in engineering? Most LAC's don't. This is why the 3-2 programs exist - so a student can have the liberal arts education and experience, then transfer to a university with a more specialized program. This actually seems to describe grad school in many fields, I can see where the confusion comes from.</p>

35

<p>This thread is just astounding. Students telling those with substantial experience "how it works" and how all engineering schools work. </p>

<p>If you take that attitude to industry, you'll be searching for a new career faster than you can take a first order derivative.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've just done some research...make something like $70,000 starting whearas people from a place like PRI make on average $60,000.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But you're not looking further down the line. Compare long term salaries.</p>

36

<p>Again, I think it's a little silly to be making plans for 3 years from now. You seem pretty ambitious, so at some point you're probably going to at least consider getting a Ph D. in which case your undergraduate school means absolutely nothing. And just an example of schools in each tier, here's my crack at it:</p>

<p>Tier 1: MIT, CalTech, Berekely, Stanford
Tier 2: Purdue, Georgia Tech, Cornell, Michigan, Wisconsin
Tier 3: Columbia, Vanderbilt, Penn State, UIUC, Texas, Ohio State, Northwestern Harvard, etc.</p>

<p>The one advantage an ivy gives you is it gives you a chance to go to wall street, but again this may not be an attractive option now that the investment bank is dead.</p>

<p>OK I really should do my physics lab now.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]

But is Columbia or Vanderbilt in Berkeley and Stanford's class (I know they're not in MIT's class)?

[/quote]

No, but as I said it doesn't really matter if you actually want to keep being an engineer. Columbia does have a good reputation (probably somewhat better than Vandy or WashU, but not in the typical US NEWS ranking sense as you might be thinking), but not to the level of those named.</p>

38

<p>G.P. you've been completely wrong time and time again. You clearly don't know how engineering schools work today. You incorrectly assumed that 140 credits works out to 5 years. And if you're assuming 3% annual raise at a company will make a $10k difference in starting salary to balloon to a big difference you're a fool. What if you get laid off? And people with just a BS in Engineering often get laid off. What if your company goes under? Planning out your entire life at age 18 is a waste of time. You go to school where your happy, do the best you can and then make a go of it.</p>

39

<p>Oh "Kewt"....</p>

<p>Let's see. From the Michigan State site, when asked how long a degree in engineering takes: "engineering students take 4 1/2 or 5 years". On the Wisconsin-Madison site, Associate Dean of Engineering Patrick Farrell: "Our time-to-degree data as of last spring, excluding co-ops, is about 9.6 semesters." And I could go on...</p>

<p>Certainly there are students that graduate in 8 semesters, but those students are in the minority. </p>

<p>
[quote]
at some point you're probably going to at least consider getting a Ph D. in which case your undergraduate school means absolutely nothing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The strength of your undergraduate will impact your admission to graduate school. It's obviously not the only factor, but it does play a role. </p>

<p>Also, "ambition" has nothing to do with a PhD. It's not the "most ambitious" option, it's an option that leads to a very different lifestyle and career. You should pursue a PhD because you want that career, not because you think it's "kewl" to be called "Dr.".</p>

<p>
[quote]
And if you're assuming 3% annual raise...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Who said anything about a cost of living adjustment? (and you honestly think that's all an engineer sees in the first 5 years?) Columbia and SUNY Buffalo will have different companies that visit. These lead to different career paths beyond the typical "plant production engineering" role. Even at a typical plant, coming out of a better school will place you better within the company (better facility, more visibility, etc) to start out. Finally, if the OP ever applies to graduate school, he'll have an advantage coming from Columbia.</p>

<p>The fact is, you don't know what you're talking about. Your realm of experience is based on one sample point (SUNY Buffalo), and even then you're guessing at what happens after graduation. You're using your dad's PhD Chemistry position (which is a completely different situation than BS engineering) to draw conclusions, which is wrong.</p>

<p>It seems like there's some sort of personal issue here - maybe you're justifying attending SUNY and not Columbia, I don't know. The point is that you're giving bad advice, then attacking others who correct you. That not only shows immaturity, but could cause someone to make a bad decision based on bad assumptions. You need to stop.</p>

40

<p>"Again, I think it's a little silly to be making plans for 3 years from now."</p>

<p>I'm not really trying to plan out my life as a senior in high school, but what I've learned from this thread will certainly impact where I'll go to college next year...which means this thread was obviously worth making for me and everyone else thinking about the same things as I am.</p>