Quick Questions about Investment Banking:

<p>respekt!!!!!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Sergio is a little mean but very informative and realistic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lol, read some of his other posts</p>

<p>(10 chars)</p>

<p>I have. Besides some NYU comments I'd say he is very on point.</p>

<p>How many people actually get a job as a analyst? If you don't go to a top of the line school is this career path even a option?</p>

<p>Even your back up plan sucks. Why would an engineering firm hire someone to be an engineering manager when they haven't worked a single day as an engineer?</p>

<p>Ohh, but you must have gone to a top 10 school! Ohh, and you were in IB?! Well then! The world is yours!! /sarcasm</p>

<p>""How many people actually get a job as a analyst? If you don't go to a top of the line school is this career path even a option?""</p>

<p>A lot more people than you think get jobs as an analyst. Most people on this board resign themselves to talking about NYC banking jobs, but in reality, there are 5 or 6 other markets to get an analyst position in, and are less competitive, minus SF (LA, Houston, Chicago, SF, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc.). If you don't go to an IVy and just go to a state school (UCLA/USC/UCB, UTexas, UVA, UMich, etc.), you've still got a shot to make it into a secondary market. The pay is rumored to be the same (same numbers wise), or at least very similar, when taking into account living conditions, but the exit opps aren't as good for obvious reasons. Even if you don't go to a school that gets recruited at a lot, you can still shine and network your heart out, land some connections and get through that way, or even just get a reg. job in finance out of UG, get your MBA at a T5 B School, and then make associate.</p>

<p>How many state schools are there that are elligible though for this "second market", and does that list only include the public ivies (the ones you listed minus USC) or does it include other good state schools like University of Washington or University of Wisconsin that are also very good, but dont have the same name as say Texas, Mich, UCLA, etc.?</p>

<p>Lets take a drastic route and say though that I want to stay instate and go to University of Oregon's honors college. Is there any hope of doing I-Banking from there if I major in econ and do well (earn like 3.8 or so)?</p>

<p>Well, there's always hope for you, regardless of what school you go to, but it'll be much more difficult if you go to a relatively obscure school. To get into a market other than NYC, I'd assume you'd have to go to a school in that area that is locally acclaimed. I know that even SMU, which isn't the greatest name-brand school out there, sends at least a handful of kids to Houston banking offices. I don't know if there's any big market for banking in Wisconsin, Washington, or some of the other states, but if there were, then going to a state school would be fine for that. IMO, if you want to end up in a certain market, go to a school that is locally acclaimed. Hell, even Fordham in NYC sends at least a handful of kids into banks every year, and that's just because of its location. Location has A LOT to do with job placement, esp. if its not in a central market, like NYC.</p>

<p>There are quite a few kids going from Berkeley into JPMorgan Chase or Goldman Sachs though. Sorry if that's meaningless since I obviously don't know much about IBanking, just chiming in to learn something new.</p>

<p>CaliforniaLove,</p>

<p>I see you're a Tupac fan. Tupac was about making the bank, and did make millions of dollars because he was one of the best rappers of all time. </p>

<p>It's very similar to investment banking. People who make associate at the top 10 firms in NY and London are some of the best students of all time. (i.e, if they do not have built in connections from parents, birth, athletics, they must graduate with honors from a school labeled "most selective.")</p>

<p>Sometimes, even graduating from an elite school (Northwestern and UVa come to mind) is not enough. Blackstone, which is not IB but is Private Equity and similar, only recruits at four schools: Harvard, Yale, Wharton and Williams. And in the macho world at IB, image and brand is everything. The slick IBer will brag about his Porsche and also brag about his big name degree from Big Name Ivy. </p>

<p>It's almost impossible to break into IB. Even with the school and the GPA, the connections are make-or-break. Look at it this way: After college, it's about as hard to get into a top 10 IB firm as it is to get into a top 10 college after high school. Oh yeah, it's possible if you don't come from a top high school, but it's a lot easier if you go to Exeter.</p>

<p>The college name is a selection cost. Going to Oregon would be a mistake if you wanted to go to IB. However, it sounds like you don't actually want to go into IB. Can't blame you. But I'll sum it up in three points:</p>

<ol>
<li>Don't bank on becoming an investment banker. It's something to shoot for and it's a hell of a life, but it's something to strive at and not expect.</li>
<li>If you do become an investment banker and you can handle the life (it's tough) why wouldn't you stay? It's not just about making bank. Those IBers have been studying their entire lives for this.</li>
<li>If you plan is just to stop by, you're probably not going to make it. If you don't feel it's for you, it's not. Choose another (well paying and more gratifying) career.</li>
</ol>

<p>Now for my question: I saw a lot of IBers from Yale, Harvard, etc, but I also saw a lot of IBers with smaller name but still elite LAC degrees (not Williams/Amherst): I saw a couple of Washington and Lees, a Bowdoin or two, and even an Oberlin. Do the LACs have an in to IB that I'm unaware of?</p>

<p>yeah the problem is that I'm having trouble finding that "other" well paying career. All I ever hear about is IB or consulting. Even when I posted a thread asking for high paying jobs besides those two, THEY STILL CAME UP. I don't have what it takes to get into a super elite school. I might get into a school like Emory, USC, UMich (non ross) level, but nothing like HYPS or even northwestern level. But no one suggests any other careers, so what else can I hope for?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Blackstone, which is not IB but is Private Equity and similar, only recruits at four schools: Harvard, Yale, Wharton and Williams

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah, they recruit at Ross also now. Probably some other schools as well.</p>

<p>California_Love8
Don't you have any skills? If you are good at what you do you will make money. Follow your skills not some nonsensical unrealistic dream of magically getting picked up into an IB.
The Only engineering grads that get into IB are the one from top schools who excel in their studies. It would be highly unlikely from a kid out a school ranked #50 to get picked up by an Investment Bank and get paid $150,000. If it was that simple their would only be one job option in the entire world - Investment Banking.</p>

<p>Can't believe I haven't posted in this thread yet! Today's statistic 98.44% on this forum will not become IBankers @ a BB, so quit the speculation and dreaming! Also california love is doing the right thing, right now he's a clueless child. But he's taking the time to research many career options for his future, which is very good instead of focusing on that crappy career they call Investment Banking!</p>

<p>UriA702: I kind of see your logic, but fact is there are some careers that just make more money. I'm trying to find a reasonable combination between careers that I like/can be good at, reasonable hours, something that isn't a dream (like I-banking), and something that pays well (in my mind 120k minimum, but ideally 150k is good. High? yes, but these are my goals), and so far, I haven't been able to find that.</p>

<p>120k entry-level? All I can say is - Keep Dreaming!
120,000 a year is very unrealistic as far as entry-level goes. 50k a year is what an engineer typically earns entry and engineers are considered very well paid.
Like I said, in any field there is a high earning potential. To yield a 6 figure salary you need to be good at what you do not just decide that's what I'm gonna do. Unfortunately, it isn't hat elementary.</p>

<p>Why don't you start with what you are good at and make headway from there?</p>

<p>Your thoughts seem unrealistic. If you are not good at something you won't make money, mind you what the median salary in that field is. Pursue something you are good at, not "whatever makes good money" thats the epitome of idiogic logic.</p>

<p>First thing is first - take your skills and interests and decide what category they can be implemented into.
Go to <a href="http://www.salary.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.salary.com&lt;/a> , where you can easily find the median salary for most careers.
If you are pleased with the salary, and pleased with the work required begin researching that area. </p>

<p>"I heard investment bankers make good money so I'm gonna study engineering" - just doesn't make sense. Employers will feel the same way, the engineering students getting into I-banking are being recruited by top banks, They aren't deciding "I'm gonna get into I-banking and hit the lottery"</p>

<p>CaliforniaLuv69,</p>

<p>I think I might have the answer for you: Chemical Engineering. Coming out of the box, the median salary is ridiculous: 90k-100k. Graduate from a good tech school with a degree in chemical engineering and you're gonna have a great job. The problem is it's tough work and there isn't much advancement opportunity. But check it out. I just know about it from some friends in college who were majoring in Chem Engineering.</p>

<p>Japan, yeah, I was referring to undergrad. I'm sure Blackstone recruits at other B-schools, probably ChicagoGSB and others. I'm probably bitter, even though Ross rejected me, for undergrad anyway.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm sure Blackstone recruits at other B-schools, probably ChicagoGSB and others. I'm probably bitter, even though Ross rejected me, for undergrad anyway.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I have no idea what MBA's they recruit. I was just talking undergrad.</p>

<p>
[quote]
in my mind 120k minimum, but ideally 150k is good. High? yes, but these are my goals)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Do you mean you want six figures entry level or six figures eventually? Accounting might be a good choice for you if you just want six figures eventually.</p>

<p>Well if your interest is engineering, yet you also enjoy, finance, business, money, etc., I'd consider a BS in Industrial Engineering. From a good tech school you could absolutely earn good money.</p>

<p>Thirdplanet:</p>

<p>While it's true that Oberlin is not a conventional breeding-ground for investment bankers, there is some historical precendent. One of the biggest names on Wall Street in the 80s- CEO of then-powerful Salomon Brothers, John Gutfreund - is an Oberlin alumnus.</p>

<p>Of more relevance today, Oberlin alumni working in finance have helped the college establish the Oberlin Business Scholars program, which provides students with in-depth information and training in job hunting/ networking methods, and exposure particularly to financial services jobs. Students have been successful at getting Wall Street internships through this program.</p>

<p>It remains true that the majority of its student body is more oriented towards future scholars and various "helping people" fields. However it is nice to see that those otherwise inclined can receive some assistance in reaching their objectives at Oberlin.</p>

<p>This program is genuinely impressive.</p>

<p>It is still far easier to get a job from one of the schools where firms in the industry regularly recruit.</p>

<p>There are impressive people at many colleges. Investment banks recognize this, it's just too much trouble for them to find them all, that's why they focus on the schools that most obviously have huge chunks of such qualified applicants. But if these great people at other schools can get their attention, perhaps through a formal program, they do have a shot.</p>

<p>You see this in MBA hiring; a decent proportion of the MBA students that get hired have their BAs from top 50 LACs, not all top 3 LACs by a longshot.</p>

<p>To OP:</p>

<p>Regarding doing something else after 4 years, as others have pointed out 4 years is not the natural departure point. Most people who want out leave sooner than this- whether it be their idea or the firm's.</p>

<p>Most people leave to pursue MBAs. but I've known people who left for: other finance jobs, law school, medical school, grad computer science program, divinity school.</p>

<p>After 4 years in investment banking your engineering skills would probably be deemed stale, and it might be hard to get a job without going back to grad school. Finally you will not be hired to manage anything, or anyone, in engineering without having relevant experience in that engineering field. Management there is attained usually via working up through the ranks. What you did in investment banking will likely be deemed not relevant to most engineering jobs.</p>