Quirky son and I ask for your help again...

<p>Wabash:</p>

<p>I thought about suggesting Hampden-Sydney, then discarded the idea. HSC is literally in the middle of nowhere (near Farmville, VA). It generally does not attract academically strong students, and is all-male, is considered to be almost as conservative as Bob Jones University (which might be a good thing depending on your outlook). I have a soft spot in my heart for HSC for reasons I won't reveal here, but HSC is just not the place for most people. If one goes to HSC, one should go with one's eyes very wide open about what the experience is likely to entail.</p>

<p>Before I'd recommend HSC to this poster, I'd recommend other LACs in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England. Unless the young man is strongly, strongly conservative, loves Southern culture, is very preppy, wants an all-male school, and wants a profoundly rural environment (far, far from any city of any size whatsoever), I couldn't recommend HSC.</p>

<p>i have read this entire thread and seen a lot of vassar vs. brandeis discussion... i'm a student transferring FROM brandeis TO vassar, so feel free to pm me if you have any questions about either school! :)</p>

<p>Goodbye Brother Johnathon. </p>

<p>Hampden-Sydney man arent extremey well known they just run things. </p>

<p>Just because its all male, dosen't mean its ALL MALE. The womens college down the road (sweet Brair) attrcts al lot of hsc men. so in reality, you get the best of both worlds!:)</p>

<p>"the best of both world"? like being bisexual?</p>

<p>no.</p>

<p>Why are you so "turned off"? Yes, it is an all male college. The stigma of 'if you go to an all male college, then you must be gay!" is erroroneous from the get go. So its all male, so what?? I dont hear all female colleges being treated in this manner.</p>

<p>yes they do, smith and mt holyoke in particular. single sex schools tend to have larger homo population than coed ones. wabash, are you gay?</p>

<p>OK... me (original poster) again,</p>

<p>Thanks for your additional suggestions. Many, unfortunately, we will have to scratch off the list because of distance, overwhelmingly preppy/conservative/fraternity-type culture, and school size. </p>

<p>I have discussed with my S that he might want to consider putting Haverford back on the list as an ED1 school, but he says over and over that that will be "wasting" his ED, he won't get in... yadda yadda. </p>

<p>I then suggested that he consider putting Vassar on top of the list and use his ED application there but he refers me to studentsreview dot com where Vassar gets many negative comments. (If you check that website ALL schools get negative comments to some degree. Sheesh!)</p>

<p>I am mightily frustrated. So, stage two of developing a college list:</p>

<p>MARLBORO:
He is still smitten with Marlboro after our visit two weeks ago. This despite its remote location, lack of TV or cellphone reception, and the fact that he is not particularly an outdoor/winter kid (just try to get him to shovel the sidewalk here at home and he grumbles!). An overnight is absolutely a necessity for both of us to be convinced that he will not go stir crazy being there for 4 years. Marlboro requires an interview anyway, so we'll visit again this fall. I know that this is what he is looking for academically. Just want to make sure that he would thrive there socially as well. </p>

<p>BRANDEIS:
We'll be adding Brandeis to our "check it out list." We did a self guided tour there last year after we dropped my older son off at Tufts last fall. There was really no one on campus at that time and so the only impressions we had were of the physical campus (it was much nicer than we had expected it to be.) So, Brandeis fell off the list by accident. Unfortunately, my older son refers to Brandeis as "Jew U," since all his peers who go there are quite religious Jews (We are Jewish ourselves, though both of my sons consider themselves Jewish culturally and not religiously). I know it has a wonderful history department, so I think we need to take a "real" tour and meet real life kids who go there.</p>

<p>BOSTON UNIVERSITY:
I know, too HUGE! But...Boston University offers a two year "Core Curriculum" option, limited to 500 freshmen, which uses a "Great Books" approach to meeting basic ed requirements. <a href="http://www.bu.edu/core/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bu.edu/core/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>My son actually gave some thought to St. John's in Annapolis which uses this Great Books approach all four years, but ultimately thought that would be frustrating not to focus in on history just a bit. </p>

<p>We both read over the BU program and it sounds wonderful! He is very VERY enthusiastic about it. He is especially interested because he would have an option to live with other freshmen enrolled in the Core Curriculum program. This helps him avoid many of the negatives about going to a huge school by offering a "college within a college." </p>

<p>I explained to him that he may be in huge lectures with 500 other freshmen once a week but if he can tolerate that then each class breaks down into smaller seminars for the rest of the week. All courses are taught by real professors, not TAs. He likes that. By junior year he would be able to focus on his history concentration. He would have made the social networks freshman and soph years so the largeness of the school would no longer be overwhelming. AND he would have all of Boston, the best college city in the world, at his fingertips.</p>

<p>He might even qualify for some merit aid here.</p>

<p>THE COLLEGE OF NEW JERSEY.
Another idea is The College of New Jersey. It has the "ewwww" factor of being in our home state and no name recognition whatsoever outside of NJ, but my s has many friends who are interested in TCNJ so he's been hearing more and more good things about it from others who have toured the school. From the website, TCNJ has what looks like a very strong history/classics program and a teacher certification in history program too, which he is considering. </p>

<p>We hear that it gets more and more difficult to get accepted each year and is now the most difficult of Jersey's state colleges to gain acceptance. It is attracting the smartest of the smartest of our state who would otherwise go to Ivies with very generous financial aid packages. My older son, who goes to Tufts, was offered a free ride and laptop at TCNJ and the Val his year goes to TCNJ for the 7 year BA/MD program. </p>

<p>I like that this is a small school where son #2 would get the seminar style classes he is seeking. There is some frat culture there, but I've read it is not overwhelming. Ewing NJ is 1/2 hour from Philly. We hear (and hope its true) that its reputation of being a "suitcase school" is changing as the school develops more and more activities on weekends.<br>
Oh, and... it' cheap.
So, we need to check this one out. </p>

<p>Wow, this is long.</p>

<p>Your thoughts welcomed on:</p>

<p>Vassar ED: Where can I find information on the stats for those accepted ED vs those accepted RD? Are the kids at Vassar happy academically? Socially? </p>

<p>Marlboro? Can a nice Jewish boy from the NYC suburbs survive in remote Vermont for four years if the academics are just what he has been dreaming of?</p>

<p>What is the history department like at Brandeis? Is the academic culture "cut throat?" Is it really "Jew U?" What is the social culture like? Do the kids go into Boston at all? </p>

<p>Any info on BU's Core Curriculum program? Is it really a "school within a school" culture? Would a kid who is adverse to primarily lecture style classes be frustrated?</p>

<p>Any info on the academic and social culture at TCNJ? What's doing on weekends? Would an intellectual kid feel out of place there?</p>

<p>Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>Please take the discussion about single sex colleges to a new thread. Thank you.</p>

<p>jjsmom:</p>

<p>Heresay is important evidence in choosing a college and, all too often, it's all one has to go on. I actually applaud your son's research, but I suspect he has reached the wrong conclusion.</p>

<p>One of my children just made a difficult decision about whether to attend Vassar or Chicago. Both have much to recommend them and, luckily for us, the institutions are different enough that the choice eventually became clear cut. Chicago is known for pounding the heck out of kids intellectually, and that made the difference (it's not what I'd want, but what a parent wants is not important).</p>

<p>I have an advantage because I know two kids who are at Vassar. One transferred from another private school, so she has some insights into how Vassar is "different."</p>

<p>First off, Vassar is very, very liberal. Nonconformity is conformity. They are very proud of having the first student run porn magazine. If one is not at least slightly liberal, it could be a tough place to fit in.</p>

<p>Vassar is also about 60% female. This is what they claim, but the kids I know (both female) swear up and down that it's not that close. They say it's closer to 70/30. I suspect it must feel that way to them, anyway. Males applying there have a better shot at getting in than females for obvious reasons.</p>

<p>The school appears to be studious. One of the young ladies in question transferred there because the private college she attended had classes easier than those at her high school and students who cared little for learning. She is ecstatic about the academic atmosphere at Vassar. The other young lady concurs. Classes tend to be Socratic, and Vassar has a tradition of hands-on learning.</p>

<p>The school is a gated island, for what that's worth. There is little interaction with the town.</p>

<p>One thing that struck me about Vassar was its high level of student involvement in practically everything. It's a school of active people and this may or may not appeal to you.</p>

<p>jjsmon--</p>

<p>sorry didnt mean to highjack, HSC is just a suggestion.</p>

<p>
[quote]
They are very proud of having the first student run porn magazine.

[/quote]
For what it's worth, Chicago has a student-run</a> porn magazine, also. Although most people on campus think it's a big joke.</p>

<p>Also, I definitely would not characterize the student-body as competitive or grade-obsessed. It varies from department to department, but generally there is a feeling of being in this mess together. Students learn to support each other in the face of Chicago's intense academic environment rather than see each other as competitors.</p>

<p>Since Haverford requires an interview of every applicant who lives within 150 miles (I think it's 150--around that, anyway), your son would have a good opportunity to discuss with the admissions office whether or not he has a good chance if he applied ED. I know that his numbers are good enough for a few years back, but who knows about right now? </p>

<p>Haverford is one of my favorite schools (I grew up down the street and was disappointed when my D chose to apply to Swarthmore and not Haverford) and would have to say that it is in many ways unique. It has a strong academic culture and a serious committment to the honor code, as well as a strong undergrad orientation, which is not true of many of the other schools mentioned (including Vassar). The long-term Quaker vibe at Haverford really matters. Swarthmore is one of the others with that attitude, but it is harder than Haverford to get into. </p>

<p>Someone mentioned Reed, which is way beyond your 6-hour radius from DC (although it is less than a 6-hour flight). It has the strong UG orientation, the strong honor code, and the strong academics of Haverford--but not the strong athletics. Nonetheless, it meets the description you gave. And it's very quirky. </p>

<p>I concur with those who think Dickinson might be worth a visit. Bowdoin and Colby also might fit. (They're along the same spectrum as Haverford.) Penn might also be worth a look if he goes down to interview at Haverford. While they're an Ivy League school, they do have a lot of the Quaker attitude.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We would like to confine our search to within a 6 hour driving radius of the greater NYC area.

[/quote]
I have a comment on this, as my son will be attending a college that is a 6 hour drive away, and my daughter will be a 5-hour flight away, on the opposite coast.</p>

<p>The farther college is easier, for a lot of reasons -- expecially in our situation: we live near 3 major urban airports; my daughter is attending school near at least 3 major airports, and her school is accessible by public transportation from the airport. My son's college is in a small town serviced by a very small airport with infrequent flights, so it is more expensive and less convenient for him to fly than it is for her. Logistically, it is simply easier for her to get home than it will be for him -- he will need to have a car on campus, and even with the car it's a problem (I'm giving him my old car, but it has 130,000 miles on it so it's not that reliable). Gas is really expensive and even he is worried about driving long distances alone. </p>

<p>I realize that there are many different situations so I am not trying to question any one family's decision -- I just want to point out that if the concern is over the convenience of getting to/from college, distant colleges located in urban areas, or suburbs near major urban centers, can be much more convenient than closer colleges located in rural or off-the-beaten-path suburban areas. I think this is especially true after the initial college move in, because flying doesn't require much parental involvement -- whereas if the kid does not have a car of his own on campus, trips to/from campus often involve the parents needing to make a round trip in the car from home, or depending on someone else to provide a ride. </p>

<p>So even parents who would like their kids nearby might consider expanding options to include colleges that are served by major airports.</p>

<p>I would agree, however, that it could be a major pain in the rear to get a kid to/from a campus that is more than an hour away from a major airport. The same is true if the parents live far from an airport. And you do want those major hub airports served regularly by discount airlines (Jet Blue, Southwest, ATA, etc.).</p>

<p>jjsmom- your mailbox is full! let me know when it isn't so i can respond! :)</p>

<p>Oooops! Sorry, it's emptied now! Looking forward to hearing from you!
Jjsmom :)</p>

<p>Davidson College sounds like a perfect fit.It's only about twenty miles north of Charlotte.Major airport.Very strong honor code.Serious students.
HSC,though off the beaten path,is assuredly worth a look.The honors program there attracts serious students.Also,very strong honor code.</p>

<p>There are about 50-60% Jews at Brandeis and quite a few are quite religious, but from everything we have heard so far, there are a fair number of non-observant or less observant Jews as well, plus the 40% non-Jews. On Facebook, there is also a group calling themselves semi-Semites (i.e. one Jewish parent, one non-Jewish). Obviously, Brandeis has a stronger Jewish atmosphere than most other secular colleges but within that framework there appears to be diversity (including international students) and general tolerance--again, I'll only know for sure once my semi-Semite D has actually been there for a while.</p>

<p>My semi-semite daughter (actually views her Jewish half as an ethnic not a religious half) adored Brandeis and did not feel at all that she would be out of place. She chose to attend another college (Yale) but would have happily attended Brandeis. It was her second choice school.</p>

<p>H and I attended Brandeis way back when. We are both internationals, non-Jews. We did not feel overwhelmed by observant Jews. We had some friends who were, and some who weren't either observant Jews or Jews tout court. There was one kosher dining hall. The others did not serve pork or seafood. Beef bacon was introduced while we were there (not great!). Of course Yom Kippur and Passover made a greater impact on campus life than at colleges with fewer Jews, but that was about it (we were told that after Yom Kippur, most of the Brandeis students could be found breaking their fast in Chinatown). Some profs made Jewish jokes that we had to have explained to us--but so were references to baseball and American footfball. </p>

<p>I agree that Brandeis has an excellent history department.</p>

<p>Your son reminds me of my son, shyness, hatred of grade-grubbing. At any rate, my son attended Clark and is at Brown, now, in graduate school. His experience at Clark was very good. I guess when people talk of fit they mean a place where a person is able to relax and work well. Wherever your son ends up I am sure the result will be satisfactory. Saying this, I do think the New Jersey schools mentioned on this thread are very different from the schools in New England and Vassar and Bard in tone. In a sort of buyer's remorse, I wish that when we had been looking at schools with my son we had proceeded on from visiting the College of Wooster to see Oberlin. My husband would remind me, though, how at Clark he, our son, was productive and achieved his goals.</p>