<p>Needed some parental input. Son now in 8th year of private string lessons. Also has been involved with 3 hours of music a day at music school for last 5 years. School advanced with daily theory, composition, chamber groups, orchestras, bowing class and master classes.<br>
Started high school with weaker music program in strings-much weaker. Now he does not want to have anything to do with his private lessons or practicing. Teacher is strict but I think the issue is more of being a male string player in a jock high school. " I hate the violin and never wanted to ply it-which is total fallacy.
Agreement was he had to do 2 more years of music lessons and groups in order to get his license. Starting to get tiring with the yelling. He likes lessons when he gets there, does not like school group since they are much more elementary then he is. Does not want to do local youth orchestra because it involves whole weekday night and more practicing.
Any suggestions appreciated. We just don't want him to loose his skills.</p>
<p>Is he a freshman or sophomore in hs? I was told by piano teacher that many boys want to quit around the first year of hs but she said to tough it out. Son never did want to quit but was allowed to follow some different paths during those years. He has evolved considerably now and does quite a bit of writing, he just added voice lessons as well. I would try to find out what is going on. If your son is older (Junior/Senior) you may have a different set of problems. There is a violin player at USC in the pop music program that may give him some inspiration if that is something he wants to persue - you can pm me if you want more info.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone should be forced to play music, they won’t if they don’t want to. If he feels bad about playing violin because he’s in a jock school then he should try 1 or two sports. I’m in concert band, jazz band, pep band and wrestle - no one says anything to me :). And the truth is, it’s just high school - everyone is selfish and arrogant - it doesn’t matter what people think of him. Again, don’t force him to play tons of music - try to get him to play at least a little, at least in the school orchestra and eventually he’ll probably come back to lessons and other musical activities. Just my thoughts - from a junior in hs band kid.</p>
<p>When my daughter was in 8th/9th grade, she no longer wanted to take piano lessons. This was very hard for my husband and I because it was clear she had high talent relative to other students at the recitals, but we had noticed a waning in the practice area. She had already had 3 different piano teachers since 1st grade, but by 8th grade she seemed just burned out of classical piano, which is all she had been taking. She took a year off, which is when she started to play piano and sing on her own, and in 9th grade asked for a voice lesson, which we gave her as part of her birthday. The voice teacher also taught piano, so over that year, my daughter slowly learned some jazz piano in addition to voice. Jump forward several years and now she’s going to Berklee starting in January as a jazz vocalist (and still has piano chops). My advice is to never force music, just like what adimi24 says. When you know your son/daughter has talent and they seem to be throwing it away, it can be torture, however, music is a future that combines talent with extreme passion, and if the passion isn’t there, the music won’t matter anyway. I’d suggest looking for an alternative way to keep music in his life (in our high school, we have strings that play in folk ensembles, which can be more fun than classical, and they really mixed in up at some of the talent shows and open mikes). If you find something that is more fun (maybe even more cool), it can buy time until the passion returns. If it doesn’t, then at least there is time to back him up on whatever his new passion is. Good luck, it’s not easy sometimes.</p>
<p>Going from a quality program to a lesser one can take the joy out of it. While you don’t specify if he is in a public or private school, my experience within the public systems is that the core group of interested, quality students tend to move through the program together. Realizing that teacher assignment and district procedures vary considerably, has the mix changed so dramatically to water down the quality?</p>
<p>It could well be the change of teacher. There are good ones, and bad ones.</p>
<p>You mention him studying privately, I’m assuming weekly. Consider cutting back to two rather than four lessons a month may work to keep the interest and let him also explore non-music options.</p>
<p>A number of the youth orchestras offer a chamber program separately from the orchestral program. Consider that route.</p>
<p>Part of it may well be testosterone at work, and not wanting to be labeled as an orchestra geek. Sometimes the best remedy here is a “hot” stand partner that helps to maintain or rekindle interest. ;)</p>
<p>A bit of personal experience, mine is a conservatory trained performing professional. The first year he auditioned for and made the yo, he was heavily into Boy Scouts. He declined the acceptance and concentrated on Scouts. No biggy. Granted, he did continue weekly private instruction and chamber coaching at his insistence, but Scouts was his priority. The next year, he reauditioned and never looked back.</p>
<p>One other thought… is he following a musical sibling? My d was three years behind son, and while she played the same instrument, she never had the level of talent or dedication her brother had. I credit the teachers for not drawing comparisons, and their music paths were not concurrent until high school. She refused to play in high school, felt overshadowed by her brother’s talents and refused to set in a section with him as the principal. She fulfilled her art requirement in fine arts, and struggled whereas she would have breezed through music. We did not press the issue.</p>
<p>Added: the following year, she asked for a guitar, and lessons, which we provided. The lessons stopped after 6 months, and she gave the guitar to her brother, who self taught and is more than competent. </p>
<p>The muse drives each kid differently. Don’t worry about loss of skills. He appears to have very solid grounding, and most likely will return to it at some point. </p>
<p>One way of testing the waters… tell him you may have to sell the 'lin to pay for driving lessons down the road. :D</p>
<p>I went through a stage around 8th grade where I considered quitting piano after 6 years of playing. I wasn’t practicing a lot because the music wasn’t very difficult and I could sight read well. Even though I liked my old teacher, I needed somebody more advanced who could challenge me. I switched at the end of the year and wish I had done so sooner. With my new teacher I have progressed so much and have gotten harder rep. and better technique. I am so happy I didn’t quit! </p>
<p>If he really doesn’t want to play, he shouldn’t be forced to, but really give him time to think this one out so he doesn’t regret it. My high school band program wasn’t challenging enough for me either so I have found other programs to do outside of school.</p>
<p>Does he have a group of like-minded musical friends, ideally at school, or if not, associated with his music studies? Kids he likes to hang around with, who also happen to play music? The social aspect of music making is particularly important in the high school years, especially for boys. If it were my kid, I’d encourage (but not demand) participation in the youth orchestra, especially if it includes socializing time during a break. </p>
<p>For context: my two youngest kids are college age musicians (one a music major, the other just because she loves it) but we allowed their older brother, a cellist, to quit at the end of 8th grade. He’d been accepted to a locally prestigious performing arts program, but ended up deciding it wasn’t for him. He pursued other interests, including theatre, over the next couple of years, and has ended up working in the music business, where his childhood studies have helped him in a number of ways. He’s a self-taught guitarist and bassist and even plays gigs when his friend’s band is desperate. Quitting music lessons doesn’t always mean giving up on music.</p>
<p>You have received excellent advice from others. Here is my bend.</p>
<p>As kids get older, they begin to prioritize what is important to THEM. Sometimes this does not align with what is viewed as important to us. Some kids find that music is important to them and wish to continue (and even up the ante with things like youth orchestra or chamber ensembles). Others decide that their commitment to different activities is more important to them. I agree witht he poster who said that no student should be forced to continue music. Offer the opportunity but don’t be offended if the child declines. </p>
<p>Our anecdote…similar to Violadad’s (our son is also a music performance major with a BM and MM in music). In grades 9/10, DS was on the tennis team. He actually enjoyed it but he was not a great player. Still, he was always there. In 11th grade, the practices were rescheduled to 5:00 instead of right after school. This conflicted with DS’s music activities and HE chose to quit the tennis team. </p>
<p>DD had a similar issue with Children’s Chorus. She was on the swim team. She could have continued with chorus until the end of 11th grade BUT it conflicted with swim team practice. She chose swim team (she had been in the chorus for seven years). </p>
<p>Both of our kids (both the music major and the non-major) continued lessons THROUGH college. Our deal was we would fund lessons IF they practiced. If not, we felt it was not a good use of our money. We never had to nag them to practice…to me, that is the acid test. If your kiddo is happy to do this because they love it, then continue. If not, maybe time to consider other activities.</p>
<p>Nothing is forever. If the student finds that they want to resume music lessons and ensemble playing, my guess is they will be welcomed back into the fold.</p>
<p>It’s hard to say if he is shifting his focus away from music or is just approaching burnout. When you add in school, homework, violin- he is working a lot of hours. I agree with the advice given that you should look at changing teachers. If time and energy permits, a small chamber group would give him socialization and important ensemble skills. Another thing to look at is to work with a teacher- violin or school- to set up small retirement home recitals on a regular basis. Recitals are a great socialization activity and a motivator as well. As far as the practising is concerned, it is time to start staying out of it. It has to become his activity for which he is responsible.</p>
<p>I would be inclined to allow your son to reduce his commitment to violin. Forcing high school students to do extra-curricular things that they strongly oppose is often counter-productive. If he wants to join an athletic team or two at school, I would definitely encourage and support that as a parent.</p>
<p>If he wants to drop the school orchestra, then I would probably support him in that too: it sounds like, given its elementary level, he is gaining little from it and that orchestra is at least part of the source of his negative attitude towards violin. Some schools have cultures that just are not supportive of the arts and grade nine boys often don’t have the inner wherewithall to withstand that.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be too concerned about the loss of skill level from reducing or eliminating violin activities: I’ve known plenty of musicians who dropped their instrument entirely for a year or two and still went on to get into top conservatories. If your son has the innate ability and passion (which it sounds like he either lacks or is fighting against now), then a loss of a year won’t hurt. </p>
<p>If your son does drop violin entirely, he has still gained huge benefits from his time with it: brain growth, development of transferable music skills, social/team skills from orchestra and ensemble participation.</p>
<p>See if there are any chamber opportunities for him–as others have mentioned, the social aspect of music making can be very positive. You may need to take the initiative to try to form a chamber group. Does he have friends from his previous school that he could form a chamber group with and get a local private teacher to coach once a week or every two weeks?</p>
<p>I agree that trying a new private teacher might also be worthwhile. There is “good strict” and “bad strict”, but for a student that is rebelling against being involved in music, any kind of strict is probably bad in their minds and likely to be used as an excuse to quit.</p>
<p>So many years, so much talent… But the yelling and the power struggle need to stop. If quitting is the only way to get it to stop, then so be it. Music should not be associated with force.</p>
<p>I think you and he need to have a calm, rational discussion and come to a conclusion. Would lessons be okay if they weren’t associated with school orchestra? Or is he ready to quit totally - really, truly, seriously? Then you have to let him. Perhaps you could take up the lessons instead? No, no - I’m serious. It is more valuable to you than to him, so why not?</p>
<p>It is not unusual for students to quit music. It is far more uncommon for them to pursue it forever. If he were my kid, my only rule would be that he has to replace it with something else - something else that requires the same time, focus, and discipline that music teaches. It can be a sport, or different instrument (guitar is a good suggestion), or basket-weaving. </p>
<p>Or you may find that once you remove the power-struggle, that violin isn’t so bad after all.</p>
<p>I would never get into a power struggle over playing/practicing an instrument. You won’t likely win, even if you are successful in getting your child to agree to continue with lessons. His heart won’t be in it, and it will end up being a waste of time and money. </p>
<p>This is a very common scenario, particularly with boys at this age and particularly with some instruments (piano and strings are common ones for boys to want to ditch in early/mid adolescence). It is very hard for some kids to resist the peer pressure to give up the instrument, particularly if the school climate isn’t very supportive of classical musicians. If you have a kid who loves it, despite that climate, all the more power to him. But forcing the issue, with a child this age, is so often counterproductive that it becomes one of those “choose your battles” situations.</p>
<p>If your son could add a a non-classical instrument, like the guitar, he might actually stick with the violin too.</p>
<p>I think sometimes that moving on is harder on the parent than the student. As parents we have spent countless hours taking kids to lessons, overseeing their practices (when they were little), taking them to rehearsals, attending concerts and cheering on their progress. It is painful, after watching them blossom so, to think of letting it go. Trust me-- I have four kids who were all intensely involved in music for a large part of their childhoods and I have gone through this and watched many other parents go through it as well. For reasons that others have already pointed out, it’s not a great idea to force a child to continue lessons. But even if your son does not pick up his instrument for years after lessons stop, keep in mind that those 8, 9, 10 years of training were not for naught. My older daughters have both told me repeatedly how grateful they are for having studied and played throughout their childhood. The life lessons acquired were innumerable and invaluable as they went on to develop skills and interests in areas not foreseeable when they were younger. In addition to having trained their brains in skills that translate into other areas (ability to memorize; to analyze material quickly on sight; to work easily in cooperation with community, etc.) there are larger lessons: that you can learn a complex skill over time if you persevere and practice regularly in discrete chunks. As for the losing of skills-- if and when he decides to return to playing when he is older, most of his skills will return. Because he learned the fingerboard as a young child, he will be able to recall his facility and to enjoy, for example, exploring new genres of music, or to resume his enjoyment of classical music. I hope this helps!</p>
<p>I have observed many students who were intensely involved with playing a musical instrument from a young age, some of whom were highly talented, won competitions, attended Interlochen in the summer, etc. who decided to quit at some point during high school. This was particularly common among students who were heavily involved with piano study. I always thought part of the reason for that was the relative isolation of the piano student (not so many ensemble opportunities as for other instruments) as well as recognition of the extremely low odds of making it professionally as a concert performer. </p>
<p>Also, I have known some students who were heavily involved in instrumental music from a young age but quit once in high school after they saw other activities that they were more drawn to but did not have the opportunity to do before that time or wanted to socialize more than they could with so much music practice. </p>
<p>I have known other extremely talented students seriously involved with music study who were winning competitions and awards all through high school, and it was assumed they were the most passionate about music, but when it was time to go to college, they ended up majoring in math, science, engineering, premed.</p>
<p>I think it is reasonable to expect that a student be involved in some kind of extracurricular activity, volunteer work, part time job, etc but I really don’t think it is fair to expect that a student continue at an intense level in music study if they do not want to do so. Having read posts from the music major section of CC, I know that many parents are intensely involved in their student’s music study. The involvement includes a lot of expense and time driving the student and perhaps waiting around during various music activities, attending performances, etc. But there also is a lot of parental emotional involvement in the student’s musical study, activities, accomplishments and plans. So it can be difficult/possibly heartbreaking to accept the idea that the child could want to leave it all behind. </p>
<p>In reading other threads concerning similar situations of students considering quitting music, I have seen parental suggestions about things that could be added or changed in the music program to motivate the student. On this thread, there have been suggestions about more involvement with peers in chamber music, playing for a retirement home, etc. Some of these ideas may work in increasing motivation or perhaps merely delaying the decision to end music study. </p>
<p>But I think the idea of the student’s being required to do 2 more years of music lessons and ensembles in order to get a drivers license is likely to kill whatever interest the student has in continuing with music. At this stage in the game, the student should be continuing in intense music study because of INTRINSIC MOTIVATION, not because it is required to get a drivers license or anything like that.</p>
<p>I agree with allmusic’s suggestion about the guitar, also consider mandolin, because mandolin has same fingering as violin, would be instantly playable and has a role in many non-classical genres of music.</p>
<p>“Agreement was he had to do 2 more years of music lessons and groups in order to get his license.”</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>I think ultimately, as others have said, the motivation needs to come from within, that forcing kids to do music, even talented ones, in the end is a losing proposition. I have seen more then a few talented kids hanging into music because their parents force them to, and though talented, it is also sad to watch them, you know their heart isn’t in it. Likewise, tying a driver’s license to staying with music isn’t going to do anything IMO except breed resentment (I understand that the intent is good here, but the mechanics won’t work IME).</p>
<p>My suggestion would be talk to your boy about what is now bothering him about music. From what you have written it could be on top of everything else he is bored with music, that his teacher and especially the school music program don’t do anything for him. I suspect being a musician in a jock school is an excuse to try and get away from music which he knows you and your spouse want him to do, so he is looking for a way to ‘excuse it’ that you will understand. In any event, I suspect he is bored with the school music program, which is quite common if a kid has trained to any kind of level IME, and that is making it worse. There could still be a spark there, but based on personal experience if music is not giving the kid anything back, it can kill that like water on embers. </p>
<p>Maybe he could try a new private teacher, try someone different and see if that makes a difference, while dropping the school program? The music director at the school may balk, but ultimately it is your choice in the end, and take it from me, a lot of talented kids don’t do school programs for the reason it is boring and time consuming. Maybe leave it with that, private lessons and practicing for now.</p>
<p>Another thought that ties to all this is your son is expressing that the time commitment is a problem, not surprisingly. High school takes a lot of time, besides being in school, there is tremendous homework, and also other activities and such, and he may be overwhelmed at this point, so cutting back may make him feel better, if all he does is lessons and practice.
Plus if it is ‘private’, if being a musician at a jock school really is an issue, it would be a private thing he does, not part of the school environment. </p>
<p>In the end, he may decide he doesn’t want to do it at all, however, and unfortunately that is something that kind of comes with the territory. As Glassharmonica put so nicely, as parents we spend a lot of time supporting the music, helping them practice when they are little, driving them, rushing to get someplace, rushing to get a new set of strings when one breaks before a performance,etc, and it is especially hard when after so many years, when the kid seems to finally be getting someplace, they decide to drop it…but my mom said something about that, by the time a kid gets to 14 or 15 they are in many ways grown and have started their own life path, and as a parent you can try to influence them or help them guide themselves, but you can’t live it for them:). The other thing I have heard parents talk about is when a kid later on says something like “you should have forced me to stay with X, whether it is music, swimming, whatever” and they feel guilty. My response would be that if we talk through it and they don’t want to do it, the responsibility is theirs, we can’t force them at that point, it doesn’t work from everything I know. I do see teenagers whose parents are obviously force them, as I suspect others have seen, and while the parents think they have won the battle, they in effect IMO have lost the war, because as soon as they can, the kid is going to stop, if for anything to assert their own path, and it won’t be a pleasant parting…</p>
<p>My son played baseball. He ate, slept and drank baseball. So did we, his parents. He pitched. He took lessons, attended camps, played on all-star teams. My husband coached little league, I volunteered many hours at the fields. My daughter joined the act and played softball. Our social life revolved around baseball. Many hours of driving, practicing, counting pitches at games, keeping “the book”, etc. He was quite talented, so the pitching coaches told us. He worked hard at his craft, and developed one of the best change-ups in the league - his “go to” pitch. It was a joy to watch him perform, even for other parents. But, at some point, the joy started to slowly drain from the game for my son. He wanted to quit, and we pushed him to stick with it. He was hesitant to even talk about it because he must have sensed how invested we were. This went on for a couple of seasons. We tried to change some things (husband stopped coaching, we thought maybe a different coach would help). One night, as I was struggling to get him in the car to go to a game, the light bulb went on for me. This should be his choice, not ours. And that was his last season of baseball. It was really painful for us. It was almost as if we mourned the loss of baseball. I know that sounds more dramatic than it was, but we were sad. </p>
<p>Fortunately, this opened up more time for him to explore what was becoming his new love - music. All the lessons that he learned through baseball have been a part of his success as a musician. And, although we still do a lot of driving for lessons, concerts, gigs, etc., my son owns this.</p>
<p>Life goes on for them. My son had opportunities to get back into baseball later, and he considered it. So, the door didn’t completely close, although he chose not to go back to it.</p>
<p>Go Phillies!</p>
<p>VMT, that was very moving. Thanks for posting!</p>
<p>The keyboardist in my daughter’s band was talking about quitting piano about four years ago. Franky, he was bored. His piano teacher told the mom that if he got involved with a band, something that required new skills, he would probably want to keep playing. He joined my daughter’s band. Rock music instead of classical. He was a jock, played football, lacrosse, hockey – now he just does track and lacrosse because those sports allow him to play in the band. I know lots of rock bands and country bands that would just LOVE to have a great violinist. It also might be considered cool. And the skills regarding self-promotion, etc. that they learn from a rock band would be invaluable no matter what career he ultimately chooses! Just a thought!</p>
<p>If you want to know how to get into a good rock band, please feel free to message me! I got lots of tips!</p>
<p>RockBandMom</p>
<p>And then, sometimes you can’t get them to quit. D2 (the nonmusic major) is currently on a study abroad term.</p>
<p>“Don’t bring your viola,” I said. “There will be all sorts of flight hassles and really, you want to be able to spend your free time seeing the country, not locked up in a practice room somewhere.”</p>
<p>I convinced her, or so I thought.</p>
<p>Turns out she found an instrumental rental place near the university and put down the deposit for what turned out to be a not-so-great student instrument. She was only meeting other Americans and wanted to join a music group to meet a more diverse population.</p>
<p>She chose not to audition for the “good” orchestra but instead joined what she describes as the “reject” orchestra … playing relatively easy music and everyone goes out to the pub together after the rehearsal. Mischief managed.</p>