"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

Applying to College
641

<p>“Berkeley has more Asian Americans than Princeton. Does this imply that Princeton discriminates against Asian Americans or that more Asian Americans apply to Berkeley?”</p>

<p>According to the Espenshade report, yes it does.</p>

<p>(<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/webOpportunity%20Cost%20of%20Admission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20June%202005.pdf[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/webOpportunity%20Cost%20of%20Admission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20June%202005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Whites don’t lose spots to URMs, Asian applicants do.</p>

<p>“Stanford is in a state with one of the highest percentages of Hispanic Americans. I would expect Stanford to enroll more Hispanic Americans than Dartmouth.”</p>

<p>I don’t believe state residence affects private colleges very much. The Bay Area is just a desirable place to live.</p>

642

<p>According to Ron Unz’s study, yes, Princeton & other Ivy’s do discriminate against Asians:
<a href=“http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/asians-large.jpg[/url]”>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/asians-large.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
From 1990-2011, Caltech, which has race-blind admission, saw its percentage of Asian enrollment rise in commensuration with the increase in the college-age Asian population. During this same period, the percentage of Asians at the Ivy’s defied U.S. demographic trend, and the enrollment percentage stayed flat. The The Ivy’s have put a ceiling on the percentage of Asians.</p>

643

<p>I think the top colleges probably do have soft quotas or targets for high-performing URMs–but the numbers suggest that they aren’t able to meet those quotas.</p>

644

<p>@ Blue works, all highly selective schools accept URMs. They must be competitive candidates that are able to run with the best & brightest. Many of the Ivies have multicultural events each year to attract a diverse applicant pool.</p>

645

<p>Yes, Princeton does have a URM soft quota, and yes, blacks have it easier in Pton admissions (ceteris paribus)</p>

646

<p>@JonWat</p>

<p>I don’t think it is Ceteris paribus, because blacks with 2300+ SATs are exceedingly rare, but common with whites/Asians.</p>

647

<p>Harvard is one of the most ethnically diverse schools in the nation.</p>

<p>This proses the question:</p>

<p>Often times, it is stated that affirmative action is only taken into consideration when weighing two academically equal students (GPA & SAT). I find this claim to be hard to believe because it is a rarity for so many minorities to be able to match respective majorities and ORMs (Asians) in academics.</p>

<p>Rather, it seems more likely that the school has a “soft” quota for ethnic groups, and URMs compete amongst each other for a spot within that quota - instead of competing with the general pool of applicants (which for socioeconomic reasons are often more academically proficient).</p>

<p>I know that “hard” quotas are illegal, but I don’t understand the process otherwise for the inclusion for such ethnic diversity within a school like Harvard.</p>

<p>By the way, I am black so this question isn’t designed to criticize affirmative action. Rather, I simply want to understand the process why which schools, especially competitive ones, select URMs. </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

648

<p>You posted this on Princeton’s forum. Yes, these soft quotas exist. Yes, having lots of melanin will help you (despite what the colleges say)</p>

<p>I’m 1/4 black and was waitlisted at Stanford but I marked white on my app (I didn’t know back then that being part black helped). I’m currently trying to let them know that I’m 1/4 black (providing a “racial update” I guess haha) and I think it will impact my chances positively (either that or seem desperate)</p>

649

<p>‘Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor’ on NYTimes

  • great article! </p>

<p>Quote:
Among high-achieving, low-income students, 6 percent were black, 8 percent Latino, 15 percent Asian-American and 69 percent white, the study found.</p>

<p>Colleges currently give little or no advantage in the admissions process to low-income students, compared with more affluent students of the same race, other research has found. A broad ruling against the University of Texas affirmative action program could cause colleges to take into account various socioeconomic measures, including income, neighborhood and family composition.</p>

650

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1499489-does-princeton-have-urm-quota.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1499489-does-princeton-have-urm-quota.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The answers posted on Princeton’s forum are the same for Harvard. The only difference is that, percentage-wise, Harvard takes more African Americans than Princeton. You can go through Harvard’s Common Data Set year-by-year and pull out the B2 data, as well: <a href=“http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/common_data_set.php[/url]”>http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/common_data_set.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

651

<p>I don’t think you know what ceteris paribus means. I’m saying that, all other variables being equal, a black with a 2300 has a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of getting into Princeton than a white applicant with a 2300.</p>

652

<p>I know what it means and what you were inferring. I don’t doubt your assertion, I’m just saying its not the primary means by which URMS are selected.</p>

<p>Black 2300+>White 2300+</p>

<p>My question was</p>

<p>Black 1900+>White 2300+</p>

653

<p>There are numerous programs and initiatives in place to give an advantage to the less fortunate. It is to such an extent that it is in itself blatant discrimination. At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own success or failure. Put on your big boy pants. This is the land of opportunity. What one does with it is up to you.</p>

654

<p>Please understand the large numbers involved. There are likely 200,000 minority high school graduates. Are you really saying Harvard can’t find a few hundred highly qualified minority students? If you’re black, I wouldn’t count on it as a hook because of the reason given.</p>

655

<p>See Harvard reply! Are you going to post for each school?</p>

656

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes. Definitely one of those. I believe I know which one. “When I applied, I wasn’t black enough to check the box then, but now I am!”</p>

657

<p>Asking the same question on multilple threads is not going to get you different results.</p>

658

<p>"My question was</p>

<p>Black 1900+>White 2300+ "</p>

<p>Yes if Black 1900 was from single parent 30k income family with extenuating circumstances while white 2300 came from a full pay private school kid.</p>

659

<p>yes, which is why they have to lower their standards (and by that I mean objective standards) so much to get “acceptable” numbers of URM’s</p>

660

<p>I will repeat that if the quota is “soft,” one reason is that these schools still require a certain stats level for any admittee, URM, legacy, or athlete–and there aren’t enough URM applicants meeting that standard to fill even a soft quota. This is why these schools compete to attract high-stats URMs.</p>

<p>To rephrase this, the schools do apply lower academic standards to hooked applicants–but they don’t lower them all that much. Just as the academic index limits the athletes they can take, there are softer standards limiting URMS and legacy admissions.</p>