"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

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<p>Source. Oh of course, you don’t have one.</p>

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<p>And what you don’t understand is that blacks and Hispanics have not reached “a certain point.” The number of institutions in the country that seek “diversity” far outnumbers “less than ten.” With less than 4,903 2100+/2400 scoring blacks and Hispanics in the country, there are simply not enough for all of those schools to have a “satisfactory” amount of black and Hispanic incoming freshmen.</p>

<p>You think “less than ten” schools can take all of those (less than) 4,903 blacks and Hispanics. Sure, they could. But do they? Let’s take a look at three schools I’m sure you’ll agree are “elite.”</p>

<p>[285</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Harvard](<a href=“http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS_2011-2012_Final.pdf]285”>http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS_2011-2012_Final.pdf) in 2011-2012. [202</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Princeton](<a href=“http://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/common_cds2012.pdf]202”>http://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/common_cds2012.pdf) in 2011-2012. [240</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Yale](<a href=“http://oir.yale.edu/node/738/attachment]240”>http://oir.yale.edu/node/738/attachment) in 2011-2012.</p>

<p>Uh oh, 202-285 is quite a bit less than 490. That’s OK, I’m sure you’ll wave your hands, scream “I can’t be wrong!” and come up with some new excuse. No problem. Let’s consider some other “elites.”</p>

<p>[402</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Stanford](<a href=“Stanford Common Data Set | University Communications”>Stanford Common Data Set | University Communications) in 2011-2012. [262</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Brown](<a href=“Office of Institutional Research | Brown University”>Office of Institutional Research | Brown University) in 2011-2012. [162</a> black and Hispanic freshmen entered Dartmouth](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/cds2011_2012_estimated.pdf]162”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/cds2011_2012_estimated.pdf) in 2011-2012. And we’ll finish with [url=<a href=“MIT Institutional Research”>MIT Institutional Research]MIT[/url</a>], which had 243 black and Hispanic freshmen enter in 2011-2012.</p>

<p>Columbia doesn’t have an easily accessible common data set, so we’ll stop with these seven (less than ten) schools. Uh oh. In only one of those schools did the number even come close to 490, and that’s because of these seven schools, Stanford admits the largest incoming class. In the other schools, they ranged from 162 to 285. So, no, “less than ten schools” are not taking 4,903 high scoring blacks and Hispanics.</p>

<p>Oh, but you protest, they could, and that means “[you] can’t be wrong!” Well, you are wrong. Those (less than) 4,903 students are getting spread over a far larger number of schools than seven research universities. They are getting spread out over at least 50 top schools, and consequently, all of these schools have to admit students from outside the 4,903 group.</p>

<p>But 50 schools can easily admit “enough” Asians from 17,732 2100+/2400 scoring Asians. They do not have to go outside that group to ensure that they have “enough.” They have to for blacks and Hispanics, because 4,903 is too few.</p>

<p>Again, the SAT is not everything, nor should it be. That you have to bring this up even though I’ve disclaimed it at least five times shows how desperate you are to cling on to your illusion that there’s no gap at the top. The point is that selective schools do not have to admit lower-scoring Asians to have “enough” of them, but they do for blacks and Hispanics. 4,903 is not enough for 50 schools to have even 100 black and Hispanic freshmen, and we’ve seen that even with a relatively small class size, as with Dartmouth, they still want close to 200 black and Hispanics to come in.</p>

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<p>You “stuck with research universities” because you don’t think LACs can be “elite.” That’s your misconception. I have no dog in this fight, though, because I didn’t attend a LAC, so I don’t personally care if you choose to insult the idea of a liberal arts college. From my perspective, it is enough that you embarrass yourself (voluntarily!) with your ignorance and arrogance.</p>

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<p>I’m still waiting for your probably enlightened opinion on this, furbreeze.</p>

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<p>Before I reply, let’s get one thing straight. Do you acknowledge that there’s a gap at the top? (Yes, yes, yes, the SAT isn’t everything, nor should it be. Please don’t make me disclaim this a seventh time.)</p>

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<p>Again you are wrong. Again your logic is flawed, insinuating that ranking is based solely on SAT scores. BUT THE MAIN REASON THAT YOU ARE WRONG IS BECAUSE THE SAT MEANS NOTHING. THOSE ARE PRINCETON’S REVIEW WORDS (MYTH #1). Do you have any toes left?</p>

<p>[4</a> SAT Myths | SAT misconceptions](<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/college/4-sat-myths.aspx]4”>The New SAT. We're ON IT. | The Princeton Review)</p>

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<p>More nonsense on your part. Meaningless in all ways, especially since long ago I established a selectivity index of 6-10%. You can create all the smoke you want, however grasping at irrelevance is the last stand of desperation. Again you are wrong.</p>

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<p>Your thoughts are jumbled so let me straighten them out. Yes I stated AA is more prevalent at T2&T3 schools. To make thing clear, THIS IS A GOOD THING AND I APPLAUD IT. There is education everywhere for everyone.</p>

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<p>Enough of this nonsense. [Here’s</a> the source for the fifth time](<a href=“http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-by-Gender-Ethnicity-2012.pdf]Here’s”>http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-by-Gender-Ethnicity-2012.pdf). 700 is the 99th percentile across all three sections for blacks (and mostly for Hispanics). But 700 is the 91st, 75, and 89th percentile for Asians in critical reading, math, and writing.</p>

<p>Now explain why the 90th percentile for Asians, roughly speaking, is the 99th percentile for blacks and Hispanics.</p>

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<p>No more nonsense from you. You deny that there is a gap in the middle. Fine. If that’s the case, then there is no reason whatsoever for T2/T3 state schools to practice racial preferences, now is there? Why would they “routinely waive SAT/GPA” (your words, direct quote) requirements for students who meet the requirements?</p>

<p>Answer the question.</p>

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<p>Again wrong. Again deceptive. Again illogical. Why do you use 50 schools when the 4903 represents minorities with a 2100 SAT+. You do not need a 2100+ SAT to get into a lot of T-50 schools. Here’s some advice stay away from numbers. You do not understand them.</p>

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<p>I’ll let Princeton Review explain it. SAT MEANS NOTHING. YOUR HOLDING ON TO A CORPSE. END OF STORY. </p>

<p>[4</a> SAT Myths | SAT misconceptions](<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/college/4-sat-myths.aspx]4”>The New SAT. We're ON IT. | The Princeton Review)</p>

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<p>No top 50 (25/25) school has a SAT cutoff for admission. Do you think that means those schools mostly have students with scores below 2100/2400?</p>

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<p>Your link says, quote, “admissions officers continue to place great weight on this test. So it’s important to do well.” Are you this desperate to cling on to your fantasy? </p>

<p>This has gone far beyond just sad. I don’t even feel sorry for you anymore. The nonsense stops now. Explain why the 90th percentile for Asians, roughly speaking, is the 99th percentile for blacks and Hispanics. If you can’t, then admit that there’s a gap and get over it.</p>

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<p>Have you given up on Gap at the top? I would if I were you. Do you now want to try your luck with the lower tier schools. GL & grow some toes.</p>

<p>I will not use the word Gap because it’s too imprecise. But As I have stated over and over and over -THERE IS MORE AA (political & economic) at the lower level universities.
Go ahead make your assertions. I will be there to correct them.</p>

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<p>Enough nonsense. Answer the question: why would T2/T3 schools “routinely waive SAT/GPA” requirements for students who meet the requirements?</p>

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<p>I don’t have to because under the constraints of the overall population & supply and demand. Your percentiles are meaningless. The minority count 4903 with a 2100+ SAT clearly demonstrates that minorities have earned a place at the top universities. </p>

<p>This so called GAP is based is nothing but an illusion, perpetrated by the over reliance of a faulty test.</p>

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<p>No more “I can’t be wrong!” nonsense. Your entire argument rests on the assumption that the percentiles are the same across racial classifications. They are not, and no amount of fact ignoring, hand waving, or screaming “I can’t be wrong!” changes that. You are wrong, your argument is absurd on its face and fatally flawed, get over it.</p>

<p>I agree with fabrizio</p>

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<p>More nonsense. This post makes absolutely no sense. I challenge you to quote any such post of mine. I know because I’m smart enough to convert the percentage into a number, which in this case is 4903 minority applicants and then compare it to the number to open seats at the elite universities. </p>

<p>Only a simpleton would look at a raw percentage and declare a Gap without weighing in many factors. </p>

<p>You have two main problems:</p>

<p>1) Your math is wrong (see above)
2) You place too much reliance of the importance of the SAT</p>

<p>BTW- Have I mentioned that the Princeton Review has found the SAT to be worthless? I believe I have, but here it goes again. THE SAT IS WORTHLESS.</p>

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<p>Another misquote. Get it right and then I’ll answer it.</p>

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<p>As always I’m having a hard time deciphering what you’re trying to say. Are you giving up your t-50 claim as being elite? if so that will automatically prove a lot of your posts to be incorrect. But that’s nothing new is it?</p>