"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 6

<p>^ I’ll just register my immediate disagreement here and leave the long response to later. It’s not at all clear that a negative eugenics program of the kind that fortunately is NOT implemented in the United States today (although it is still legal under a yet to be overturned Supreme Court holding) would “lead to an disproportionate amount of people of certain ethnicities to be targeted.” That’s what a lot of people think, but that’s not what I think. (Anyway, I am not advocating such a policy.) </p>

<p>See </p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> Intelligence, Genes, and Success: Scientists Respond to THE BELL CURVE (Statistics for Social Science and Public Policy) (9780387949864): Bernie Devlin, Stephen E. Fienberg, Daniel P. Resnick, Kathryn Roeder: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387949860/]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387949860/) </p>

<p>for a more detailed discussion of the scientific and social policy issues. That’s not the last word on the subject (one would also want to look at </p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> What Is Intelligence?: Beyond the Flynn Effect (9780521741477): James R. Flynn: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521741475/]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521741475/) </p>

<p>for some more recent information and additional thoughts on the social policy aspects of the policy proposal) but it’s a good place to start.</p>

<p>Good references Tokenadult, thanks! And of course, looking at those, pointed to others. This Kindle is REALLY going to save me money!</p>

<p>If we where to run with the experiment that implies extreme SAT points are heritable, we might one day be here arguing that this was no more in the applicants control ( or to his credit ) than skin color or parents income. I need to look up “merit”…So assuming we agree the schools are right; that extreme SAT scores are not necessary to succeed… Hmmmm…</p>

<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063785578-post453.html]#453[/url]”>quote</a> Let’s see if everyone can follow this link from the Economist </p>

<p>[Economist.com[/url</a>] </p>

<p>about some advantages of diversity in the United States.

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<p>As [url=<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063523884-post84.html]posted”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063523884-post84.html]posted</a> in this thread earlier](<a href=“A Ponzi scheme that works”>A Ponzi scheme that works), psychological studies may be uncovering diversity of thought processes correlated to culture as well:</p>

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<p>^^</p>

<p>That 's all well and good…I can come up with 100 more reasons why we should strive for diversity. My point is that it shouldn’t be based on race, for if it were, then all we would be getting is diversity of physical features. Are we improving our functional MRIs if our visual cortices if see someone with different facial features…and should we base an entire program and national mandate on this questionable study? I can start a scientific study that shows that pigs can fly…well, if I take a petri dish of porcine cells on an airplane that would do the trick. please don’t forget, that the title of the article says that the study only SUGGESTS…it doesn’t MANDATE… </p>

<p>A middle class kid who is African American differs very little from my child, why should THAT person get the no before my child? College admissions committees should base their decisions on socio-economic diversity, and geographic diversity, but eliminating skin color, and finding an entirely new paradigm for admitting students based on diversity.</p>

<p>I was reading a little of Justice Clarence Thomas’ writings…he blames affirmative action for his difficulty in getting a law position in a prestigious law firm worthy of a Yale graduate as such. Now he is an african american , who was admitted under AA by his own statements, and he now sits on the highest court in the land. So one would think that his opinion has been reasonably well thought out. He has openly stated that AA has caused the ( unjust ) misconception that african americans are less able than their counterparts. Isn’t time to rethink this social mandate, if it causing more harm than good, before the next fifty years passes and lays on even a thicker coat of social unrest?</p>

<p>Physical differences often serve as a proxy for other types of diversity. Additionally, it is politically correct for elite schools to maintain a significant number of URM’s on campus. </p>

<p>I love Justice Thomas.</p>

<p>[Is</a> Racism Due to Perceptual Illusions?](<a href=“http://changizi.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2009/09/30/racism-is-due-to-perceptual-illusions/]Is”>Is Racism Due to Perceptual Illusions? | Changizi Blog) by Mark Changizi, professor of cognitive science at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute:</p>

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[quote]
Other people have an accent, but not me. And this is not just because I have no accent. I wouldn’t have an accent even if I had one!</p>

<p>Accent is a strange thing (as is my reasoning style). No matter the accent you get stuck with – southern, New Yorker, or my valley girl rendition – you feel as if it is the other accents that sound accented to you. Your own accent sounds, well, unaccented, like vanilla, corn flakes, or white bread. Arguments about which person “has an accent” don’t tend to be productive; just a lot of pointing and reiterating the pearl, “No, you’re the one with the accent.”</p>

<p>And it is not just accent where we find ourselves behaving badly. We do the same for skin color. Most people feel that their own skin color is fairly uncolorful, and difficult to accurately name. Why are our perceptual systems like this? Here’s what I said about this in [The</a> Vision Revolution](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Revolution-Research-Overturns-Everything/dp/1933771666]The”>http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Revolution-Research-Overturns-Everything/dp/1933771666).

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<p>Unfortunately, this fine discrimination around one’s own skin color (or accent, or the taste of your own saliva, for that matter) has an unintended consequence: it can lead to racism. Could racism really be a side effect of highly efficient perceptual mechanisms? I’m afraid so. Here’s an excerpt from The Vision Revolution where I discuss why…</p>

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<p>Related: [Can</a> race be erased? Coalitional computation and social categorization](<a href=“http://www.pnas.org/content/98/26/15387.full]Can”>http://www.pnas.org/content/98/26/15387.full)

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<p>Good point, and my point is that it is a poor proxy for diversity and shouldn’t be the cornerstone of a national mandate.</p>

<p>Yes, we absolutely need diversity, AA is not the way to do it. You can legislate school diversity, but you can’t legislate people’s impressions. </p>

<p>“t takes 20 years to gain a reputation, and 20 years to lose it” is a saying applied to college prestige, and is also true of how africans are perceived, in terms of “ability” ( rightly or wrongly )</p>

<p>^^ </p>

<p>StitchInTime makes a very good point here. Many people (most people?) find it easy to make sweeping generalizations about groups of their fellow human beings. They make those generalizations about groups that they consider don’t include their individual selves. They (we?) would never find the same kind of generalizations acceptable if applied to the group they think they belong to–within that group, they recognize that each individual is an individual and doesn’t derive individual characteristics solely from group membership. This is one of the best reasons for college campuses to be diverse along all possible dimensions, to get people unstuck from group stereotyping while they pursue their higher education.</p>

<p>“A middle class kid who is African American differs very little from my child,”</p>

<p>GoBlueJays , you sound SOOOO sure about this. How is it that I feel differently? What is the difference in our perspectives? I suppose it could be explained by the information from stitch. I do not feel other minority “races” (Asian, Hispanic, etc…) are homogenoues though. In fact, I feel pretty sensive to the nuances, and wonder if it’s from being “one of them”. I visited Nigeria around age 20, and was changed forever by the experinece of being surrounded by people, media, etc., with people that “looked like me”. I also feel it’s from having lived in diverse communities. </p>

<p>“why should THAT person get the no before my child?”</p>

<p>is a different argument.</p>

<p>I think I worry more about something like a book I read about ( but did not read!)…Rise of the Meritocracy by Michael Young ( according to Wikipedia;…his book was set in a dystopian future in which one’s social place is determined by IQ plus effort. In the book, this social system ultimately leads to a social revolution in which the masses overthrow the elite, who have become arrogant and disconnected from public sentiment…detractors of meritocracy point to the central dystopian aspect of Young’s conception: the existence of a meritocratic class that monopolizes access to merit and the symbols and markers of merit, thereby perpetuating its own power, social status, and privilege.[citation needed]</p>

<p>Meritocracy has been criticized as a myth which merely serves to justify the status quo; merit can always be defined as whatever results in success. Thus whoever is successful can be portrayed as meriting (deserving) success, rather than success being in fact predicated on rational, predetermined criteria of merit.[7])</p>

<p>…and what might be loss if “society” overvalue things like SAT scores without understanding what might be lost as a result. Not that I do.</p>

<p>^ Almost all but the first paragrapph and the last sentance was a quote…</p>

<p>The following article is referenced in the arguments laid out in [The</a> ‘race’ question on the U.S. census is racist](<a href=“http://www.sodabob.com/Constitution/Census.asp]The”>Soda Bob):</p>

<p>Scientific America (March 30, 2007): [Confirmed:</a> The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WW II](<a href=“http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-the-us-census-b]Confirmed:”>Confirmed: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WW II | Scientific American):</p>

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<p>I’m 1/16 Peruvian, probably (by my grandmother’s and great grandparents’ appearance, according to my family) somewhere around 1/16-1/8 white, and the remaining, Chinese. I recently discovered this.
I’ve never really identified with being white or Hispanic, except that people have always said I look like I could be mixed.
Culturally, I am Chinese. I can speak Chinese fluently and my parents were born in China and Hong Kong. The reason why they never told me I was mixed was because my dad’s side is really traditional and wouldn’t approve of having mixed race descendants. They used to call me “ghost girl” just because I didn’t look “pureblood”. Because some of my family doesn’t seem to “approve” of my genetics, I am more eager to claim my white and hispanic blood as well as my Chinese.
So, if I claim Hispanic on my app, then that’s URM, I believe, and could be much better for me than only claiming Asian. But do I count if I’m only 1/16?
Also, I don’t have any proof other than what my family has told me, and my appearance. I don’t even know much of anything about Peruvian culture; it’s all just blood. Any images or records of my ancestors before my grandmother left behind after the Second Sino-Japanese War. Would they actually check though, because if they did, I wouldn’t have any real proof. I don’t want to get in trouble.
Sorry this is so long.</p>

<p>You said yourself that you don’t identify as Hispanic. If you don’t identify yourself as it, don’t put it.</p>

<p>Sounds like you identify as Asian—put that. Anything else is disingenuous.</p>

<p>Save yourself the trouble and put Asian.</p>

<p>I agree with them- Asian</p>

<p>Does it require you to put race? If you’re genuinely confused then put the one that’s the most obvious (Asian) or don’t put anything at all (if that’s allowed).</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure 1/16th doesn’t qualify…I think it’s minimum 1/8th by federal standards. I would go with Asian.</p>

<p>^ </p>

<p>The reply immediately above is incorrect. The question was merged into the main FAQ thread, which links out to the federal definitions. </p>

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<p>You have largely answered your own question, especially in relation to Hispanic ethnicity. Hispanic persons can be of any race. (By the United States definitions, Hispanic or Latino is an “ethnicity” category, not a “race” category, and the federal regulations specifically say that Hispanic persons can be of any race.) But if you have an exceedingly remote connection to some group, discovered only as you were about to fill out your college applications, its dubious that your connection to that group adds diversity to a college campus in the usually expected way. You are, of course, welcome to write about anything about you (politics, hobbies, previous places of residence, intended major subject, etc., etc.) that makes you different from other applicants to the colleges you desire. By federal regulation, you are also welcome to entirely leave blank the optional ethnicity and race questionnaire. But stick to the facts about who you are and who you always have been if you identify diversity factors about yourself. </p>

<p>Good luck in your applications. </p>

<p>Your question, which I see from your post count was a first post, has been merged into the current FAQ and discussion thread on this much-discussed issue, the better to draw attention to the first dozen or so posts in the thread, which link to official definitions and other information. You don’t have to put down anything at all as your race or ethnicity.</p>

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<p>The question is never required for United States college admission, but for the unique exception, a federally operated college for American Indian or Alaskan Native students. For all applicants to all the usual colleges we talk about on College Confidential, the two-part race and ethnicity question is optional and may be left blank. </p>

<p>You have and everyone has the legal right to leave the form blank ([post</a> #1](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506689-post1.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506689-post1.html)). </p>

<p>The recent national trend has been for an increasing number of college applicants to decline to self-identify any ethnic group ([post</a> #3](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506711-post3.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506711-post3.html)). </p>

<p>Many colleges admit many students each year for whom they do not know of any ethnic affiliation ([post</a> #4](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506721-post4.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506721-post4.html)).</p>

<p>It seems that my post has sort of interrupted an ongoing conversation. My apologies. Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions. I have known about my 1/16 Hispanic blood for a little over a year, not that that means much. I agree with the point that I wouldn’t add much to diversity, so I’m going to apply either as Asian or not declare my race at all.
The reason why I asked this question was because I consider myself Hispanic genetically, but not culturally, though it has had influence on my view on life and my family.
And honestly, I was tempted to claim URM… for obvious reasons. I’m still a bit tempted. Not to offend anyone, but I find recruiting URMs really racist. I understand a need for diversity and overcoming racial boundaries, but I just don’t think that’s the way to achieve a more ideal balance. I thought of applying with my tiny bit of Hispanic bloodline as a sort of whack at the system because I’m a bit annoyed and bitter. Race doesn’t necessarily mean diversity and upbringing; culture and upbringing do more. Do they actually question people about their claimed heritage What would happen if someone couldn’t prove themselves?</p>