<p>I agree, although I’ve met remarkably few people who were actually in favor of Affirmative Action in its current form. However, it is true that minority students are considerably more likely to come from low-income families.</p>
<p>I like this article </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf[/url]”>http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf</a> </p>
<p>as a more research-based than most first look at the trade-offs between ethnic affirmative action and socioeconomic affirmative action. </p>
<p>There are some other articles on the same subject, some also based on data gathering from college applicant pools and enrolled college classes.</p>
<p>It was different many years ago when Thomas Sowell examined the subject and concluded that significant mismatching was occurring between URM students and elite institutions. The statistics might not show that today, but what is the cause of the “improvement”? I suggest that the cause is overall grade inflation at elite institutions. If a rigorous marking system and core cirriculum was actually used, it would be very possible that you would find many to be “unqualified” or “less qualified”.</p>
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<p>I’ll read that as “If a rigorous marking system and core curriculum were actually used, it would be very possible that you would find many to be ‘unqualified’ or ‘less qualified.’” When you say “many,” I take it you mean “URM students,” mentioned in your earlier sentence. But so what? Many applicants from all groups to elite institutions are unqualified or less qualified (than other applicants) from the point of view of those institutions, but it’s still a matter of debate whether any elite institution today admits any students who plainly aren’t qualified for that institution, if the institution enjoys a large number of applicants. What are the most recently available hard data on this issue?</p>
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<p>How obvious it is that you are unacquainted with Princeton’s grade-deflation-cum-grade-quota policy. However, it is not the only Elite “with a rigorous marking system and core curriculum actually used.” (And which simultaneously practices AA.) Note this, however:</p>
<p>Just as there are rich whites who graduate from Elites (George Bush comes to mind) who do not particularly distinguish themselves while there (Katharine Hepburn, from Bryn Mawr, being another), one of any race and income level can graduate from a rigorous U by meeting the technical requirements (vs. achieving Honors or some other status),</p>
<p>One’s major, and major requirements, may make a particular individual’s graduation easier, even with a rigorous distribution/core demand.</p>
<p>Hi everybody,</p>
<p>I have an issue. I am native american, jamaican, cuban, and I guess white.</p>
<p>Over my life, I have identified with the minorities. I always felt I was white, but overtime I realize the outside world saw me as “black”. </p>
<p>My dilemma is though what do I check on college apps? My father escaped from Cuba and his mother is Jamaican/Cuban. So that makes me Jaimacan/ Cuban.</p>
<p>On my mom’s side, her great great grandfather lived on the Cherokee tribe, but there’s no proof of this because back then “no one” wanted to consider themself native american, so therefore he never put himself on the Dawes roles. Recently, I have decided to join the title 7 native American group in my area. I am waiting to get a paper from my friend to join and become more involved with that side of my heritage.</p>
<p>Is this wrong to mark NA on applications/ what are the repercussions for doing this?</p>
<p>My federal card with the school states I’m: NA, BLACK WHITE, and hispanic.</p>
<p>You would be morally justified picking all categories you identify with. There is definitely a dissonance between identities. Many minorities also start to think of themselves as ‘white’ if they live in a predominantly white, middle class area. They may not be aware that their family’s cultural values are different because they are only exposed to the majority culture.</p>
<p>These people tend to realize that they’re different as they grow older and gain more social awareness. This is a common phenomenon and exactly what you describe.</p>
<p>That is exactly what has happened to me. I think if colleges ask me for anything, I can send my essay I wrote about my heritage and how the outside world never saw all of it.</p>
<p>I am just worried about the native american thing that I am not involved enough to check it, even though I’ve always thought of myself as NA.</p>
<p>If you’ve always thought of yourself as native american, put it.</p>
<p>But I’m not tribally affliated or anything of that matter? When people ask what I am, I just go half black/half white or a latina because it’s easier than going into all the details.</p>
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<p>You can choose more than one race if more than one race applies to your situation. And Hispanic people (people of Hispanic ethnicity) can be of any race. </p>
<p>See the FAQ posts at the beginning of this thread into which your question was merged for much more information.</p>
<p>And by AA, I mean race-based, not based on socioeconomic status.</p>
<p>Anyone can hear the argument against affirmative action: just turn on Fox News, or listen to the Republican Senators’ speeches during Sotomayor’s confirmation hearings. But in all honesty I’ve never really heard a coherent argument for AA in this day and age. I don’t want to make this a politically partisan issue, because I certainly don’t think it has to be.</p>
<p>So now in 2009, 40 years since the Civil Rights era and 20 years since the last Civil Rights Act, does anyone still agree with the use of race-based affirmative action in the American college admissions process? Why?</p>
<p>I know it’s not fair. Even as someone who gets an advantage from it, I know that.</p>
<p>But then again, I also don’t want to go to a college where 99% of the student body is white or asian.</p>
<p>Why not? (Although ~90-95% is probably a more realistic figure)</p>
<p>Because I like diversity.</p>
<p>Personally, I like a college’s population to be about equivalent to the general population. If 20% of the general population is Hispanic, it seems reasonable that about 20% of the college’s population should be Hispanic. I’m NOT saying it should be artificially achieved with quotas etc. - I’m just saying that if that’s not the case, something’s clearly wrong.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that the student body should necessarily reflect the general population. However, I think affirmative action has a legitimate basis because, as a whole white students still do get more opportunities (outside of college admissions) than do black students. Even if they come from a very similar socioeconomic background. It may not seem fair, but overall life isn’t fair towards the students that AA helps, so it may not be fair, but in the final scheme of things it may very well be just.</p>
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<p>Discussions about “affirmative action” frequently fall into the fallacy of equivocation, because people don’t define what they mean by that term (which, by the way, did not originate in the context of college admission). So if you ask me that, I would say, “I’m not sure. What do you mean by ‘affirmative action’?” </p>
<p>But one thing I can agree on is that most discussions of affirmative action on CC ought to be in one thread at a time, as many of those threads attract flames and blatant misstatements of fact. So your interesting question was merged into the current discussion thread. </p>
<p>Have a happy New Year.</p>
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<p>What if it could be shown that different ethnic groups have different rates of readiness for college study? </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.act.org/news/data/09/pdf/three.pdf[/url]”>http://www.act.org/news/data/09/pdf/three.pdf</a> </p>
<p>See </p>
<p>[An</a> Infrequently Asked Question: What Does “Underrepresented” Mean?](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506871-post12.html]An”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063506871-post12.html) </p>
<p>above in this same thread for more detailed issues to consider when deciding who is “underrepresented,” if anyone, at a particular college.</p>
<p>I understand tokenadult. I just didn’t want to resurrect an old(ish) thread.</p>
<p>amarkov (and to anonymityy too) - diversity of what? Is diversity merely of skin color really that important to you?</p>
<p>I think having a campus of people with diverse backgrounds is excellent for the college environment; it makes for better conversations and opens everyone’s perspective. I don’t think having people of different skin color (much less a rigid amount of those people that conforms to the national average) accomplishes any of those things at all.</p>