Ali you are like a hopeless romantic. If anything the data from UCLA understates the process at the Ivies. It’s like the old marriage saying. Are you going to trust me or your lying eyes? Ali it’s time to quit because you have definitively lost the argument. You know this stuff isn’t hiding and isn’t a secret. What’s next? Maybe pretending that Ashkenazi Jewish people as a group don’t have superior IQ’s. For fun go take a look at the list of Nobel Prize winners for the past one hundred years. Or maybe that west africans didn’t record 98/100 of the fastest times in history in the 100 meter dash. Facts are stubborn things.
@SAY Two speculative news articles don’t count as proof nor does your bizarre examples of Jewish IQ(although most of the Nobel prize overrepresentation isn’t due to IQ, mainly scientists nominating other scientists). When you resort to insults to make a point it’s likely due to the fact that you have no credible evidence for any of your assertions. You can’t seriously compare UCLA to Ivies in terms of selectivity or their admissions processes due to the lack of transparency from Ivy league schools. Finally, it’s ironic that the articles you post are about racial stereotyping which is exactly what you’ve done by mentioning Jewish overrepresentation in terms of Nobel laureates post WW2 and West African performance on the 100 meter olympic race.
Ali you are free to believe whatever you want. My examples are proven facts not stereotypes. It is quite an interesting position to believe that winning the Nobel Prize isn’t related to one’s intelligence but rather scientists nominating scientists whatever that means. Can you name a single cornerback,running back, or skill player in the NFL that is not African American. This is a fact not a stereotype as there are thousands of players of all races playing college football. The truth is not a stereotype and I have not insulted you personally but simply pointed out that your assertions are not supported by the facts.
Random topic, but must say: I hate it when people tell me, “You’re just white,” while they identify as “Armenian-Indian” or “Japanese.” Like, I’m actually “Scots-Irish-Italian,” and I do keep that culture with me. Now Asian is more broad; so white and asian would go together in terms of broad categories.
@ShouldBeWorking I agree with you to a certain extent. But at the same time, colleges should act as breeding grounds of differences. As culture is pretty significant for the foundation of differences in a society, and as race can have a large influence over culture, I find it somewhat important to balance out (at least to a certain extent) the races of each admitted class. Yet, I do think that they have gone too far at the moment, as people who are working the hardest are being denied admission based off of the color of the skin (something they do not choose and have no control over).
It truly is a complex topic as it includes a need for cultural diversity pitted against fairness
@Nedcone While I do agree that standardized testing is completely innacurate and pretty much a waste of money, I think that you are failing to realize that colleges DO use this information and rank it as “very important,” if not “most important.” Especially at the top universities, every single point and activity, essay correction and grade, counts.
@Ali1302 University of Chicago isn’t an Ivy League university and has always been different–“uncommon” as they like to say. I also find it funny when white students complain about reverse discrimination. Walk around any Ivy League college. Any first tier one. Whites–and white men–are very well represented, as are Asians. Complaining about reverse discrimination and quotas is just a way for justifying the fact that you weren’t admitted. Rejection is painful but is part of life.
@jackisawesome They do use it except when there is countervailing information. What is important is to stand out and be distinctive in some way. High SAT scores won’t make you stand out. It’s not as if an Adcom member is going to say, “wow, we must take this kid because he got straight 800s”. They will however discuss students with lower scores but who have overcome obstacles, excelled in sports, music or art etc.
@sadovaya Also, if people were just accepted based on their stats, then a lot of minority students from urban/low income areas will never obtain the chance to attend these schools. They are not provided the same resources nor the same academic foundation as students from suburban/upper-middle class areas. Therefore, colleges look at applications holistically by taking the student’s background into consideration. Yet, there are a lot of rejected students who feel as if AA is unfair for accepting " under qualified" minorities. Honestly, if they have a major problem with reverse discrimination or AA, then they should do something about the lack of a strong academic foundation in lower class minority groups.
As an African-American student, I do feel guilty sometimes about Affirmative-Action and I think it should be more socioeconomic-based, than racially based. Additionally, I had a teacher who stated “a good education can be attained anywhere if you want it”. I have a Hispanic friend who’s from a single-parent background with a 40K income; regardless, he was top 5% of my class and received a 2250 on the SAT in one sitting and never got less than an A (All A’s and A+) and did a myriad of activities including football with me, which is one of the most time-consuming extracurricular possible. This was at a top Jesuit school in the nation.
Educational prowess is more of a cultural thing, and the fact of the matter is that URM’s communities hold more apathy toward educational prestige and achievement. I fear that many people who are so polarized in supporting Affirmative-Action are trying to solve the symptoms not remedy the problem.
These discussions about race are complicated – yes, everyone is technically an American if you’re born here, either parents is an American, or naturalized. But, history informs us that only certain Americans were treated with respect that they deserve, while others were singled out for discrimination. It’s sad that some Americans are still not perceived as such because of their race. Perhaps universities should be a bit more honest about their policies, instead of hiding behind the holistic review nonsense.
In 15 years the largest minority of 18 year olds will be mixed race, second only to whites. IMO this long term trend will remove race from holistic criteria entirely. Black (brown compared to Africans) people are already mixed race, and Asians are many races, and Hispanics can be one or multiple races. I am looking forward to the day the classification is completely removed. That is one thing the French do correctly.
See I think it’s not as much “is it harder to get in as an Asian” as it may not be, but instead “is it easier to get in if I identify as Latino or Black”. Not being racist at all, just asking.
@TooOld4School If you don’t have any stats backing up your argument here than I’ll refer to this as baseless conjecture. Although, interracial marriage rates in the united states have increased over the years, the vast majority of whites, blacks and the majority of Asians stick with their own race. Hoping that a large percentage of the U.S. population become mixed race is not only false hope but very very delusional, I think you have to wait 100 years or more and it’s still unlikely to happen.
Look at the 0-4 demographic by race from the 2013 data. Those kids will be 18 in 15 years. This is absolutely not conjecture although the ratios may be altered slightly by immigration.
@TooOld4School it is absolutely conjecture basing figures on 0-4 year olds and failing to take into consideration fertility rates and immigration. Your analysis fails on so many levels I’m not going to even bother mentioning all the other factors making your future predictions baseless.
Also, only a liberal would believe that race mixing would be a solution to discrimination or bias. I would say your liberal beliefs may have resulted in hasty conclusions here or maybe it’s another form of bias. I wish it were true that race mixing would result in no discrimination but this simply is far from reality. Look at Brazil for instance that is basically a melting pot, people are still identified by race or skin color there regardless of their mixed backgrounds.
@Ali1302 , Newborns growing to 18 year old students is anything but baseless. Where else to do kids come from? It is only the mass migration of illegals, or a large increase in legal immigrants that would significantly alter the mix. When races are mixed there ceases to be a traditional racial identity, and racial stereotypes and bias depend on identification of particular group with an historical context. The current average ACT score of mixed race kids is about the same as Caucasians, which infers that they as likely to attend colleges as Caucasians. Also, what does Brazil have to do with the US?
@TooOld4School You’re basing your predictions solely on the percentage of 0 to 4 year olds. Immigration will definetely alter the numbers, it is the main reason why Asian Americans are predicted to be the fastest growing minority group in America. There are other factors such as fertility rates that can change or lower over time, this also effects your demographic predictions.
Finally, mixed race people don’t end racial stereotypes at all therefore the premise of your argument is a logical fallacy. Brazil is relevant here because it’s the most mixed race country in the world yet people are still identified by mostly skin color in terms of race. I also can’t see how mixed race individuals end affirmative action at all, they could create a new type of affirmative action if anything especially the ones that are half-black or half Latino. The less relevant mixed race individuals would be White-Asian and White-American Indian. A large percentage of mixed African Americans would simply Identify as black so if anything increase the black demographic.
@NotVerySmart Only you can by their skin colour and features, Especially Half-black and Half-Asian hybrids as they have very distinct features. Half Latino- Half white could be difficult though because they look mostly White. Unfortunately, non-Hispanic whites are projected to be in the minority in the future.
Overtime the White population will decrease, While the Asian, Black and Hispanic population increase thanks to mass immigration aswell as high fertility rates in the case of Hispanics. Anyway, off topic here the point is mixed people don’t destroy the concept of race and if you want an example look at Brazil where virtually everyone is mixed yet communities are still segregated by skin color.