The percentage of Asian students at Ivies (using federal race definitions, not college websites with inconsistent handling of multi-racial and international) and percentage science + engineering majors are listed below. See the correlation?
Princeton – 41% sciences + engineering, 21% Asian
Cornell – 35% sciences + engineering, 18% Asian
Harvard – 27% sciences + engineering, 17% Asian
Dartmouth – 21% sciences + engineering, 15% Asian
Brown – 21% sciences + engineering, 14% Asian
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Sadly, you are not Professor Charles Kingsfield and this is not your class of 1Ls. Perhaps others are unwilling to engage because this is not a debate society.
Goodness @Ap0state all you have to do to see the numbers without international students is take the first one from this list:
Caltech: 43-49% Asian
Berkeley: 35-46% Asian
CMU: 30-46% Asian
MIT: 26-34% Asian
Princeton; 21-31% Asian
Harvard: 17-27% Asian
Williams: 13-19% Asian
Notre Dame: 5-9% Asian
Ergo:
Caltech: 43% Asian
Berkeley: 35% Asian
CMU: 30% Asian
MIT: 26% Asian
Princeton; 21% Asian
Harvard: 17% Asian
Williams: 13% Asian
Notre Dame: 5% Asian
^^^ The first number is a direct quote of the federally reported Asian percentage from IPEDS. There is no data modification.
The Asian percentage in the post you replied to did not include international. The international percentage is listed separately. All other posts also included Asian percentages without international. If you look at the CDS for any of the listed colleges, the numbers should match the post above for all races since the CDS uses federal definitions of race, like IPEDS. https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/ and other sites using federal race definitions should match exactly for the listed year (2016).
Caltech and Berkeley have higher percentages of Asians because they don’t consider race in their admissions. CMU has a high percentage of international Asians because its admission and FA policies, even though it’s technically need-blind, favor full-pay applicants. Notre Dame has low Asian percentage because few Asians (domestically or internationally) apply there.
@1NJParent CMU has 30% Asian AMERICAN students, and an additional 19% international students of all kinds.
http://finance.caltech.edu/documents/528-cds2018.pdf (section C7) lists racial/ethnic status as considered at Caltech.
However, both Caltech and Berkeley are in California, and Caltech is a small specialized school.
@OHMomof2 CMU has somewhat higher percentage of Asian Americans because of its relatively stronger focus on STEM, compared to most of its peers. Its percentage of full-pay international students is, however, much higher than its peers due to its FA and admission policies.
@ucbalumnus Yes, Caltech indicates in its recent CDS’s that race is considered. However, the way it’s considered is different from its peers. Being a URM will be helpful in admission, but only to more limited extent, as academics are more heavily weighted.
CMU’s especially high Asian percentages are limited to specific programs, generally the STEM focused ones that most would expect. An example is below. CMU has a smaller portion of students pursuing social sciences and humanities than Ivies, Stanford, and most similar highly selective colleges that don’t have the word “technology” in their name. It also is especially well known for STEM, in particular CS, rather than humanities or social sciences. The school of Drama is an exception, which is also well known and is extremely selective, with only a 4% acceptance rate.
Studying CS at School of Computer Science (512 Total):
41% Asian, 24% International, 18% White, 13% Mixed or Not Reported, 3% Black, 1% Hispanic
Studying Drama at School of Drama (216 Total):
2% Asian, <1% International, 64% White, 21% Mixed or Not Reported, 12% Black, 1% Hispanic
AOA
My daughter is in Dubai she will appear in IGCSE from Dubai but she will give her A levels from Pakistan so my question is for university admission in Pakistan she needs to give exams for urdu, pak studies and Islamiat? As she is not in Pakistan for IGCSE
The country is not evenly divided politically for the applicant age group. Are you suggesting that colleges should give preference to conservative applicants? So that college students’ political orientation can reflect view of adult group instead their own age group?
Whether it is a way to go or not, it cannot practically work because there is no way to tell if the seemingly legit kids are actually disguised communists. They even use proxy servers and alternate id on social networks, unless… we ask Russians for help.
Maybe colleges can admit more from the right breed, which they are doing with the legacy preference, but many high SES conservative parents are having increasingly hard time keeping their kids in the right value system even before they enter colleges.
I think diversity of thought is also important but yes very difficult to figure out a way to genuinely capture that.
As the NYTimes article suggests (thanks for the link @allanz1844) if AA was changed to be only a function of economic status, the schools would not get the racial diversity they want. And I personally think the racial diversity is very important.
I also agree @SculptorDad that many of the legacy kids probably do lean left, at least at this point in their lives. And if they don’t before they get to the elite schools, they may start to lean more left as they go through their 4 years at an elite university. Not only are the student bodies at these schools overall more left, but I read an article a few years back (can’t remember the name/author) that said at the Ivies your chances of getting a left leaning professor vs. a right leaning professor was 300 to 1!
At the risk of sounding like I am stereotyping and overly idealistic at the same time, admitting more poor white kids from lets say the more right leaning states to the elite schools could be a step in the right direction as it relates to reuniting our country which is so divided. It might be nice for an upper middle class suburban idealistic NYC suburban kid (like mine) to be in classes with a poor rural kid from Alabama (for example) who has a different outlook so that both kids could learn from each other and understand each other’s point of view. The top schools are very interested in attracting international students (many of whom are white) and certainly this diversity is a part of the experience and a great way for students to learn about other cultures. But we have so many different “cultures” in our country too…there are deeper divisions and misunderstandings in our country too (which we are now more aware of than ever and it’s quite sad) and getting this diversity of thought on the college campuses could be just as educating and helpful in preparing graduates for success. But they all have to be willing to listen to each other and have an open mind.
This IS a form of diversity that colleges seek. The white rural kid from Alabama very likely does get a bump at the elite colleges in the northeast - geographic diversity, maybe Pell eligible, maybe first gen. @collegemomjam
https://features.thecrimson.com/2017/senior-survey/national-politics-narrative/ suggests that Harvard students move leftward politically, but not by that much. Even before coming to Harvard, liberals were significantly larger in number than conservatives, though that may at least partially be due to young people in general leaning that direction.
“young people in general leaning that direction.”
Especially young people of higher education and intelligence, at times when the most prominent conservative figures seem to promote ignorance on the media. A side effect of college education. Ok. I better stop here and stay away from the subject before starting to make bad jokes.
“This IS a form of diversity that colleges seek. The white rural kid from Alabama very likely does get a bump at the elite colleges in the northeast - geographic diversity, maybe Pell eligible, maybe first gen.”
If the person applies and many don’t, ivies don’t really recruit in those parts of the country as do they do in other wealthier parts of the US and other countries where there is concentrated wealth (eg BRIC). The number of applicants from Alabama, Kentucky etc would be higher if they really sought that form of diversity. They just need a couple to say they have every state represented.
@SculptorDad we all need a sense of humor these days!!!
Let me first announce that the below is written in the context of recruiting more freshmen of conservative orientation from remote areas of the U.S. by top colleges. By all means there are also people with different political orientations in those areas.
While diversity may also have great practical benefits, the moral core of promoting it is the idea inclusion, and that everyone is equal, be that of race, gender, or political opinions. Therefore, there is a dilemma when a minority political opinion to be “included” is an opinion of “exclusion,” such as white-supremacy that attacks the very idea of diversity.
Colleges may still give boon to an individual poor white applicant in Charlottesville who rallied with Swastika. But it might be an insult to the very minority opinion to be protected, if colleges dare visit and try to have “a fair” (pun intended) with a KKK chapter and preach diversity and equality in front of a Confederate flag.
Or maybe that it is just practically impossible to visit significant number of rural locations due to budget.
For the record, we recently toured UVA in Charlottesville and the very, very first thing the tour guide said is that the university denounces what happened last year in Charlottesville and how they in no way support the opinions of the protestors, etc. I wasn’t surprised they said this but I was really glad she did because it was on my mind. Full disclosure, I for one am a little skittish about looking at schools with my son in the south because of my own stereotypes. This is disappointing to me because he really prefers a warmer climate, but it has held me back from touring some schools with him.
Rural, southern, even conservative DO NOT equal white supremacy. It’s offensive and discriminatory to imply those things.